Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Service loop length (Art Zemon)
2. 07:58 AM - Re: Aviation related: non electric (weloveflying)
3. 09:14 AM - Wiper motors question (weloveflying)
4. 09:31 AM - Re: Service loop length (Sebastien)
5. 11:53 AM - Re: Wiper motors question (Eric Page)
6. 05:26 PM - Manual intercom PTT (Jeff Point)
7. 05:54 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Daniel Hooper)
8. 05:58 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Pel Leh)
9. 06:08 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:27 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Charlie England)
11. 06:37 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (don van santen)
12. 07:07 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT ()
13. 07:23 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT ()
14. 07:26 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT ()
15. 09:06 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Daniel Hooper)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Service loop length |
Charlie & Bob,
Those are interesting ideas.... I had not considered the idea that I might
remove the whole radio stack. And reading Charlie's message, I also thought
of the situation where I want to add/remove a pin in one of the audio panel
connectors. That would sure as heck be easier if I could pull the connector
well clear of the panel.
What do you suggest I do about the shielded wires for headsets? Connect
them directly to the D-sub connectors for the audio panel? Or add another
connector near the audio panel so that the whole harness can be assembled
outside the plane?
-- Art Z.
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:06 PM 9/7/2017, you wrote:
>
> ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
> On 9/7/2017 7:24 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> See attached photo.
> For the wires running between radios in my radio stack, how much service
> loop do I need, 12"-ish? Less? Never having had to work behind the panel
of
> a plane, I could use your thoughts.
>
> Thanks,
> =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
>
> When you have to, you're not going to like it. Sit in the cockpit & try t
o
> imagine what you'll do when you're trying to troubleshoot the one in the
> middle of the stack.
>
> I left enough service loop(s) length to sit the panel on the spar (low
> wing), face down.
>
>
> Did a design study with some guys at Lear
> to produce one of Leon Davis's 'mini bonanzas'
> a DA5 if memory serves.
>
> We designed a radio module that would hold all
> the radios that was held into the panel with
> 6 screws. Take out those screws and all
> the radios came out together with the interface
> harness terminated in a D-sub. One could take
> the whole thing to the bench . . . or use an
> extension harness to operate the radios out
> of the panel.
>
> This approach let us take proposals from various
> suppliers or hardware to build the complete
> stack with only the airplane interface wiring
> dangling off the back.
>
> Installation time on the assembly line was under
> 40 minutes for the whole avionics package.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aviation related: non electric |
millner(at)me.com wrote:
> Find a VPN service that. Makes you appear to be in Switzerland... then download
the video and share withDad
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:40 AM, Janet Amtmann wrote:
> >
> > This is aviation related but not strictly Aeroelectric. My friend in Switzerland
sent me link from Spiegel Online (german news magazine) with a video about
the Horten brothers flying wing, the Ho229. I can open all videos except
the Horten video, a red notice comes up "this video is not available in your
country". Is anyone here on the list enough of a hacker to understand why this
is, and is there a way around this? My father knew one of the Hortens and I
would like to watch this video instead of having to travel to Switzerland to
view it.
> >
> > Jrgen
> >
> >
>
+1 for glastar's answer. VPN service is the best way you can get around that. The
said service is used by individuals who are looking to access something that
is restricted in their country, and as long as you're not doing anything illegal
in this case, there's none you'll be fine. There are a lot of companies
which offer VPN services, and it is recommended to go for paid services rather
than free services for security reasons.
You can also consider TOR browser, a browser which lets you browse the web anonymously
I haven't tried using the said browser, so I can't give you details about
it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472620#472620
Message 3
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| Subject: | Wiper motors question |
*Newbie Question/First Thread*
I'm just wondering what kind of motors are used for wipers; are they servo motors, like this one: SM110 Motor Series (http://www.powerjackmotion.com/product/sm110-motor-series/), or are they just simply wiper motors, which are powered by a universal, electric motors?
My hunch tells me that servo motors are the ones that are behind it, which is of
course based on my understanding of a servo's function; nevertheless, it's just
my hunch.
Your thoughts are very much welcome!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472629#472629
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Service loop length |
Art, I'll send some pictures later but on my BD-4 I have panels in the side
of the fuselage forward of the instrument panel so that I can get at the
back of the panel very easily and quickly. Also my panel is in three
pieces: Flight instruments, radios, and right side. The flight instrument
side has a small amount of service loop but if I have to take the whole
panel out I usually undo from the back side first. The radio stack is all
trays so no service loops.
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Charlie & Bob,
>
> Those are interesting ideas.... I had not considered the idea that I migh
t
> remove the whole radio stack. And reading Charlie's message, I also thoug
ht
> of the situation where I want to add/remove a pin in one of the audio pan
el
> connectors. That would sure as heck be easier if I could pull the connect
or
> well clear of the panel.
>
> What do you suggest I do about the shielded wires for headsets? Connect
> them directly to the D-sub connectors for the audio panel? Or add another
> connector near the audio panel so that the whole harness can be assembled
> outside the plane?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 09:06 PM 9/7/2017, you wrote:
>>
>> ceengland7@gmail.com>
>>
>> On 9/7/2017 7:24 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>>
>> See attached photo.
>> For the wires running between radios in my radio stack, how much service
>> loop do I need, 12"-ish? Less? Never having had to work behind the panel
of
>> a plane, I could use your thoughts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -- Art Z.
>>
>> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
>>
>> When you have to, you're not going to like it. Sit in the cockpit & try
>> to imagine what you'll do when you're trying to troubleshoot the one in
the
>> middle of the stack.
>>
>> I left enough service loop(s) length to sit the panel on the spar (low
>> wing), face down.
>>
>>
>>
>> Did a design study with some guys at Lear
>> to produce one of Leon Davis's 'mini bonanzas'
>> a DA5 if memory serves.
>>
>> We designed a radio module that would hold all
>> the radios that was held into the panel with
>> 6 screws. Take out those screws and all
>> the radios came out together with the interface
>> harness terminated in a D-sub. One could take
>> the whole thing to the bench . . . or use an
>> extension harness to operate the radios out
>> of the panel.
>>
>> This approach let us take proposals from various
>> suppliers or hardware to build the complete
>> stack with only the airplane interface wiring
>> dangling off the back.
>>
>> Installation time on the assembly line was under
>> 40 minutes for the whole avionics package.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wiper motors question |
A simple DC motor spins at high speed. It drives a worm gear that greatly reduces
speed while multiplying torque. The gear train turns an arm or cam with an
eccentric lobe or pin, which makes the wiper arm oscillate.
Much cheaper and easier to implement than a stepper or servo motor, as no complex
motor drive circuitry is required.
See attached exploded diagram.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472653#472653
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wipermotor_157.gif
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| Subject: | Manual intercom PTT |
Listers,
My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a
good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the
intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise
overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open
intercom.
To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the
microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the
intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the
switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom
type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the
other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)
Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high
noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?
Thanks
Jeff Point
Milwaukee
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
Are you certain there are no issues with the wind noise interfering with the ANR
and making it more noisy?
That could sound like an open mic, possibly.
I invite others to comment on this, but I believe you could just ground the mic
terminal to silence it. There is mic bias voltage on that pin that powers the
microphone capsule, but it should run through enough resistance inside the radio
that this should be no problem.
If that makes you uncomfortable, shorting it through a capacitor should be fine
as well. In that case, youd want a 1M resistor across the shorting switch to
keep the capacitor charged to prevent a big POP when the switch is thrown.
You could get some version of that done with a DPDT like you described.
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Jeff Point <jpoint@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a good
ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6)
and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom
squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom.
>
> To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the microphone
wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the intercom. It will still
be noisy, but will only while talking with the switch activated. Taken a
step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom type switch so that one position
enables the mic (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)
>
> Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise situation?
Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Point
>
> Milwaukee
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
I don't have a particularly noisy cockpit but I do use a flight tech
intercom which uses a full time microphone noise suppressor chip from the
telephone industry to cancel mic noise in noisy and open cockpits. It seems
to ignore anything other than my voice effectively and is the only intercom
I've ever been completely happy with.
http://www.flighttech.com/
Ken
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Jeff Point <jpoint@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a
> good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom
> (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers
> the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom.
>
> To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the
> microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the
> intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the
> switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom
> type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other
> enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)
>
> Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise
> situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Point
>
> Milwaukee
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
At 07:17 PM 9/8/2017, you wrote:
>
>Listers,
>
>My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have
>good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with
>the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind
>noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a
>near-continuous open intercom.
Mic selection is tricky. Noise abatement falls into
two categories: Ambient noise that equally impinges
on both sides of the microphone's diaphragm and wind
noise which is a manifestation of turbulence over
the mic enclosure openings . . . which can NEVER be
equal and opposite to each side of the mic . . . hence
no noise canceling.
Airplane radios of the 30's and 40's
had a similar problem. The airplanes were
very noisy and there was no practical way
to do the dual-port cartridge to reduce ambient
noise. Aircraft mics of this era typically
had one or perhaps three small holes which
served as a simple, noise attenuator. To be
understood, you put your lips to the microphone's
face cup. Those WWII movies with John Wayne
hollering over the radio with a microphone
10 inches from his face were a bit laughable.
Emacs!
Intercom and radio systems in high noise environments
often feature 'throat microphones' . . . a simple
elastic strap that held two carbon cartridges against
the throat, one on each side of the larynx. These
cartridges had no holes . . . they literally converted
mechanical vibrations to their electrical analogs.
One of these products might be ideal for the Breezy application.
Unless your fly with your mouth open to the slipstream,
they'll pick up no ambient or wind nose whatsoever.
http://tinyurl.com/yclr8szt
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
On 9/8/2017 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good
> a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the
> intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise
> overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open
> intercom.
>
> To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the
> microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the
> intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with
> the switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT
> mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic
> (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)
>
> Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high
> noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Point
>
> Milwaukee
Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is
bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is
silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions
will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio &
ditch the intercom.
Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not
overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
Oregon Aero sells a mic cover for use in open cockpit ac. They claim it
helps. PS Engineerig also recomends it. I have not used/needed it so I
can't speak to efficiency but it a cheep possible fix.
On Sep 8, 2017 18:30, "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
> ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
> On 9/8/2017 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote:
>
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a
>> good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom
>> (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers
>> the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom.
>>
>> To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the
>> microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the
>> intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the
>> switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom
>> type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other
>> enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)
>>
>> Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high
>> noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jeff Point
>>
>> Milwaukee
>>
> Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is
> bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is silencing
> the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions will still be
> useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & ditch the
> intercom.
>
> Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not
> overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Manual intercom PTT |
I contacted the manufacturer of the headset I use, describing a similar
problem with the rear-seat position in my Citabria when I fly with the
window open for ventilation. He suggested a leather "sleeve" over the
mike, with three small holes (the size of a pencil lead) on the side of
the mike that touches your lips. You put the sleeve on over the foam
cover, and that eliminates a LOT of the wind noise that is breaking the
squelch.
Good luck!
Jim Parker
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
Actually that's really all I'm trying to do. The transmit quality is acceptable
(scratchy but readable as reported by tower.) It's just that the noise from
the constantly open mic on the intercom is annoying.
I do have the Oregon Aero mic muff and that hasn't fixed it. Those help in a high-noise
environment (like my RV-6) but are overpowered in an extreme noise environment
like the Breezy.
Jeff
---- Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is
> bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is
> silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions
> will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio &
> ditch the intercom.
>
> Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not
> overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic.
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
The ANR works fine- this is definitely an open mic caused by wind noise.
What would be the advantage of grounding the mic voltage vs. just opening it up
completely? It's s horse apiece to wire it either way.
Jeff
---- Daniel Hooper <enginerdy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are you certain there are no issues with the wind noise interfering with the
ANR and making it more noisy?
>
> That could sound like an open mic, possibly.
>
>
> I invite others to comment on this, but I believe you could just ground the mic
terminal to silence it. There is mic bias voltage on that pin that powers the
microphone capsule, but it should run through enough resistance inside the
radio that this should be no problem.
>
> If that makes you uncomfortable, shorting it through a capacitor should be fine
as well. In that case, youd want a 1M resistor across the shorting switch to
keep the capacitor charged to prevent a big POP when the switch is thrown.
>
> You could get some version of that done with a DPDT like you described.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Manual intercom PTT |
>
> What would be the advantage of grounding the mic voltage vs. just opening it
up completely? It's s horse apiece to wire it either way.
With the grounding method you could wire it anywhere in the system as an add-in,
but if you break the mic connection you *have to* wire it in series with the
headset.
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