---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/08/17: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Re: Service loop length (Art Zemon) 2. 07:58 AM - Re: Aviation related: non electric (weloveflying) 3. 09:14 AM - Wiper motors question (weloveflying) 4. 09:31 AM - Re: Service loop length (Sebastien) 5. 11:53 AM - Re: Wiper motors question (Eric Page) 6. 05:26 PM - Manual intercom PTT (Jeff Point) 7. 05:54 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Daniel Hooper) 8. 05:58 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Pel Leh) 9. 06:08 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 06:27 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Charlie England) 11. 06:37 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (don van santen) 12. 07:07 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT () 13. 07:23 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT () 14. 07:26 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT () 15. 09:06 PM - Re: Manual intercom PTT (Daniel Hooper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:37 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Service loop length Charlie & Bob, Those are interesting ideas.... I had not considered the idea that I might remove the whole radio stack. And reading Charlie's message, I also thought of the situation where I want to add/remove a pin in one of the audio panel connectors. That would sure as heck be easier if I could pull the connector well clear of the panel. What do you suggest I do about the shielded wires for headsets? Connect them directly to the D-sub connectors for the audio panel? Or add another connector near the audio panel so that the whole harness can be assembled outside the plane? -- Art Z. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:06 PM 9/7/2017, you wrote: > > ceengland7@gmail.com> > > On 9/7/2017 7:24 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > > See attached photo. > For the wires running between radios in my radio stack, how much service > loop do I need, 12"-ish? Less? Never having had to work behind the panel of > a plane, I could use your thoughts. > > Thanks, > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -- Art Z. > > Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos. > > When you have to, you're not going to like it. Sit in the cockpit & try t o > imagine what you'll do when you're trying to troubleshoot the one in the > middle of the stack. > > I left enough service loop(s) length to sit the panel on the spar (low > wing), face down. > > > Did a design study with some guys at Lear > to produce one of Leon Davis's 'mini bonanzas' > a DA5 if memory serves. > > We designed a radio module that would hold all > the radios that was held into the panel with > 6 screws. Take out those screws and all > the radios came out together with the interface > harness terminated in a D-sub. One could take > the whole thing to the bench . . . or use an > extension harness to operate the radios out > of the panel. > > This approach let us take proposals from various > suppliers or hardware to build the complete > stack with only the airplane interface wiring > dangling off the back. > > Installation time on the assembly line was under > 40 minutes for the whole avionics package. > > > Bob . . . > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:34 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Aviation related: non electric From: "weloveflying" millner(at)me.com wrote: > Find a VPN service that. Makes you appear to be in Switzerland... then download the video and share withDad > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:40 AM, Janet Amtmann wrote: > > > > This is aviation related but not strictly Aeroelectric. My friend in Switzerland sent me link from Spiegel Online (german news magazine) with a video about the Horten brothers flying wing, the Ho229. I can open all videos except the Horten video, a red notice comes up "this video is not available in your country". Is anyone here on the list enough of a hacker to understand why this is, and is there a way around this? My father knew one of the Hortens and I would like to watch this video instead of having to travel to Switzerland to view it. > > > > Jrgen > > > > > +1 for glastar's answer. VPN service is the best way you can get around that. The said service is used by individuals who are looking to access something that is restricted in their country, and as long as you're not doing anything illegal in this case, there's none you'll be fine. There are a lot of companies which offer VPN services, and it is recommended to go for paid services rather than free services for security reasons. You can also consider TOR browser, a browser which lets you browse the web anonymously I haven't tried using the said browser, so I can't give you details about it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472620#472620 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:39 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiper motors question From: "weloveflying" *Newbie Question/First Thread* I'm just wondering what kind of motors are used for wipers; are they servo motors, like this one: SM110 Motor Series (http://www.powerjackmotion.com/product/sm110-motor-series/), or are they just simply wiper motors, which are powered by a universal, electric motors? My hunch tells me that servo motors are the ones that are behind it, which is of course based on my understanding of a servo's function; nevertheless, it's just my hunch. Your thoughts are very much welcome! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472629#472629 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:56 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Service loop length Art, I'll send some pictures later but on my BD-4 I have panels in the side of the fuselage forward of the instrument panel so that I can get at the back of the panel very easily and quickly. Also my panel is in three pieces: Flight instruments, radios, and right side. The flight instrument side has a small amount of service loop but if I have to take the whole panel out I usually undo from the back side first. The radio stack is all trays so no service loops. On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > Charlie & Bob, > > Those are interesting ideas.... I had not considered the idea that I migh t > remove the whole radio stack. And reading Charlie's message, I also thoug ht > of the situation where I want to add/remove a pin in one of the audio pan el > connectors. That would sure as heck be easier if I could pull the connect or > well clear of the panel. > > What do you suggest I do about the shielded wires for headsets? Connect > them directly to the D-sub connectors for the audio panel? Or add another > connector near the audio panel so that the whole harness can be assembled > outside the plane? > > -- Art Z. > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 09:06 PM 9/7/2017, you wrote: >> >> ceengland7@gmail.com> >> >> On 9/7/2017 7:24 PM, Art Zemon wrote: >> >> See attached photo. >> For the wires running between radios in my radio stack, how much service >> loop do I need, 12"-ish? Less? Never having had to work behind the panel of >> a plane, I could use your thoughts. >> >> Thanks, >> =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -- Art Z. >> >> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos. >> >> When you have to, you're not going to like it. Sit in the cockpit & try >> to imagine what you'll do when you're trying to troubleshoot the one in the >> middle of the stack. >> >> I left enough service loop(s) length to sit the panel on the spar (low >> wing), face down. >> >> >> >> Did a design study with some guys at Lear >> to produce one of Leon Davis's 'mini bonanzas' >> a DA5 if memory serves. >> >> We designed a radio module that would hold all >> the radios that was held into the panel with >> 6 screws. Take out those screws and all >> the radios came out together with the interface >> harness terminated in a D-sub. One could take >> the whole thing to the bench . . . or use an >> extension harness to operate the radios out >> of the panel. >> >> This approach let us take proposals from various >> suppliers or hardware to build the complete >> stack with only the airplane interface wiring >> dangling off the back. >> >> Installation time on the assembly line was under >> 40 minutes for the whole avionics package. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha t > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiper motors question From: "Eric Page" A simple DC motor spins at high speed. It drives a worm gear that greatly reduces speed while multiplying torque. The gear train turns an arm or cam with an eccentric lobe or pin, which makes the wiper arm oscillate. Much cheaper and easier to implement than a stepper or servo motor, as no complex motor drive circuitry is required. See attached exploded diagram. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472653#472653 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wipermotor_157.gif ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:32 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT Listers, My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom. To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.) Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work? Thanks Jeff Point Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:04 PM PST US From: Daniel Hooper Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT Are you certain there are no issues with the wind noise interfering with the ANR and making it more noisy? That could sound like an open mic, possibly. I invite others to comment on this, but I believe you could just ground the mic terminal to silence it. There is mic bias voltage on that pin that powers the microphone capsule, but it should run through enough resistance inside the radio that this should be no problem. If that makes you uncomfortable, shorting it through a capacitor should be fine as well. In that case, youd want a 1M resistor across the shorting switch to keep the capacitor charged to prevent a big POP when the switch is thrown. You could get some version of that done with a DPDT like you described. > On Sep 8, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote: > > > Listers, > > My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom. > > To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.) > > Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work? > > Thanks > > Jeff Point > > Milwaukee > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:40 PM PST US From: Pel Leh Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT I don't have a particularly noisy cockpit but I do use a flight tech intercom which uses a full time microphone noise suppressor chip from the telephone industry to cancel mic noise in noisy and open cockpits. It seems to ignore anything other than my voice effectively and is the only intercom I've ever been completely happy with. http://www.flighttech.com/ Ken On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote: > > Listers, > > My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a > good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom > (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers > the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom. > > To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the > microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the > intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the > switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom > type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other > enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.) > > Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise > situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work? > > Thanks > > Jeff Point > > Milwaukee > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:26 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT At 07:17 PM 9/8/2017, you wrote: > >Listers, > >My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have >good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with >the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind >noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a >near-continuous open intercom. Mic selection is tricky. Noise abatement falls into two categories: Ambient noise that equally impinges on both sides of the microphone's diaphragm and wind noise which is a manifestation of turbulence over the mic enclosure openings . . . which can NEVER be equal and opposite to each side of the mic . . . hence no noise canceling. Airplane radios of the 30's and 40's had a similar problem. The airplanes were very noisy and there was no practical way to do the dual-port cartridge to reduce ambient noise. Aircraft mics of this era typically had one or perhaps three small holes which served as a simple, noise attenuator. To be understood, you put your lips to the microphone's face cup. Those WWII movies with John Wayne hollering over the radio with a microphone 10 inches from his face were a bit laughable. Emacs! Intercom and radio systems in high noise environments often feature 'throat microphones' . . . a simple elastic strap that held two carbon cartridges against the throat, one on each side of the larynx. These cartridges had no holes . . . they literally converted mechanical vibrations to their electrical analogs. One of these products might be ideal for the Breezy application. Unless your fly with your mouth open to the slipstream, they'll pick up no ambient or wind nose whatsoever. http://tinyurl.com/yclr8szt Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT From: Charlie England On 9/8/2017 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote: > > Listers, > > My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good > a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the > intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise > overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open > intercom. > > To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the > microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the > intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with > the switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT > mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic > (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.) > > Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high > noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work? > > Thanks > > Jeff Point > > Milwaukee Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & ditch the intercom. Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:26 PM PST US From: don van santen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT Oregon Aero sells a mic cover for use in open cockpit ac. They claim it helps. PS Engineerig also recomends it. I have not used/needed it so I can't speak to efficiency but it a cheep possible fix. On Sep 8, 2017 18:30, "Charlie England" wrote: > ceengland7@gmail.com> > > On 9/8/2017 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote: > >> >> Listers, >> >> My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly. I have good a >> good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom >> (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers >> the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom. >> >> To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the >> microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the >> intercom. It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the >> switch activated. Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom >> type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other >> enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.) >> >> Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high >> noise situation? Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work? >> >> Thanks >> >> Jeff Point >> >> Milwaukee >> > Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is > bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is silencing > the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions will still be > useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & ditch the > intercom. > > Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not > overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:43 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT I contacted the manufacturer of the headset I use, describing a similar problem with the rear-seat position in my Citabria when I fly with the window open for ventilation. He suggested a leather "sleeve" over the mike, with three small holes (the size of a pencil lead) on the side of the mike that touches your lips. You put the sleeve on over the foam cover, and that eliminates a LOT of the wind noise that is breaking the squelch. Good luck! Jim Parker ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:51 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT Actually that's really all I'm trying to do. The transmit quality is acceptable (scratchy but readable as reported by tower.) It's just that the noise from the constantly open mic on the intercom is annoying. I do have the Oregon Aero mic muff and that hasn't fixed it. Those help in a high-noise environment (like my RV-6) but are overpowered in an extreme noise environment like the Breezy. Jeff ---- Charlie England wrote: > Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is > bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is > silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions > will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & > ditch the intercom. > > Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not > overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic. > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:05 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT The ANR works fine- this is definitely an open mic caused by wind noise. What would be the advantage of grounding the mic voltage vs. just opening it up completely? It's s horse apiece to wire it either way. Jeff ---- Daniel Hooper wrote: > > Are you certain there are no issues with the wind noise interfering with the ANR and making it more noisy? > > That could sound like an open mic, possibly. > > > I invite others to comment on this, but I believe you could just ground the mic terminal to silence it. There is mic bias voltage on that pin that powers the microphone capsule, but it should run through enough resistance inside the radio that this should be no problem. > > If that makes you uncomfortable, shorting it through a capacitor should be fine as well. In that case, youd want a 1M resistor across the shorting switch to keep the capacitor charged to prevent a big POP when the switch is thrown. > > You could get some version of that done with a DPDT like you described. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual intercom PTT From: Daniel Hooper > > What would be the advantage of grounding the mic voltage vs. just opening it up completely? It's s horse apiece to wire it either way. With the grounding method you could wire it anywhere in the system as an add-in, but if you break the mic connection you *have to* wire it in series with the headset. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.