---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/17/17: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:21 AM - Don Johnson (GLEN MATEJCEK) 2. 02:21 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (donjohnston) 3. 02:22 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (donjohnston) 4. 04:57 AM - Re: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel (Art Zemon) 5. 06:12 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (user9253) 6. 06:40 AM - Re: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel (don van santen) 7. 07:21 AM - Re: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel (Art Zemon) 8. 07:39 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (donjohnston) 9. 09:29 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (jonlaury) 10. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (Charlie England) 11. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (Bob Kuc) 12. 05:38 PM - starter contactor (Alec Myers) 13. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (Gerald Farek) 14. 05:59 PM - Re: starter contactor (Robert Borger) 15. 07:22 PM - Re: starter contactor (ashleysc@broadstripe.net) 16. 07:38 PM - Re: starter contactor (Charlie England) 17. 09:24 PM - Re: starter contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:16 AM PST US From: GLEN MATEJCEK Subject: AeroElectric-List: Don Johnson Hi Don- Tried to reply directly but the note bounced due to a full mailbox. So, are the breakers in question in the main panel or a sub panel? On Sep 17, 2017 12:20 AM, "AeroElectric-List Digest Server" < aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-09-16&Archive=AeroElectric Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-09-16&Archive=AeroElectric =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/16/17: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:43 PM - Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel (Art Zemon) 2. 04:11 PM - GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (donjohnston) 3. 05:18 PM - Re: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel (don van santen) 4. 05:49 PM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (Charlie England) 5. 06:23 PM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (C&K) ________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________ _______ Time: 03:43:15 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: AeroElectric-List: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel Folks, I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer quicker than I can get an answer from VAL Avionics, since it is a weekend. My VAL COM 2000 radio shows microphone connections for - Mic Key - Mic Audio - Mic GND - Shield tied to Mic GND (grounded at one end only) My PS Engineering audio panel shows microphone connections for - Mic Key - Mic Audio - Shield (grounded at one end only) What do I do with the Mic GND? Is tying it to the shield and grounding it at one end sufficient? -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________ _______ Time: 04:11:00 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: "donjohnston" My current shop was built two years ago. All the 120 circuits have GFCI breakers. Specifically Siemens type QPF, 20a. About a month ago, whenever I went into the shop, one of the breakers would be tripped. The only thing on that circuit is a lathe and work light. I unplugged them and it would be tripped the next morning. I swapped the circuit with a different breaker and the same breaker kept tripping. So it would appear that I've got a bad breaker. I went to Home Depot and got a new one ($53!!! :x ). All good now. Except now there's a breaker on a completely different circuit tripping. This one only stays set for about an hour before tripping (with nothing connected to the circuit). I did a quick google and it appears that this is common and referred to as "nuisance tripping". Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve it without dropping another $53? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472926#472926 ________________________________ Message 3 ______________________________ _______ Time: 05:18:28 PM PST US From: don van santen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel Art, I talked to PSE and they said to either leave the mic lo disconnected at both ends or connect as you did at radio end and connect to the ground wire at the PSE end. The shield connects to the rest of the PSE shields. No double ended shield connections. Don On Sep 16, 2017 15:47, "Art Zemon" wrote: Folks, I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer quicker than I can get an answer from VAL Avionics, since it is a weekend. My VAL COM 2000 radio shows microphone connections for - Mic Key - Mic Audio - Mic GND - Shield tied to Mic GND (grounded at one end only) My PS Engineering audio panel shows microphone connections for - Mic Key - Mic Audio - Shield (grounded at one end only) What do I do with the Mic GND? Is tying it to the shield and grounding it at one end sufficient? -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 4 ______________________________ _______ Time: 05:49:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: Charlie England Sure=2E $7 breaker=2E :-) =81=A3Charlie=8B On Sep 16, 2017, 6:14 PM, at 6:14 PM, donjohnston wrote: >--> AeroElectr ic-List message posted by: "donjohnston" > > >My cur rent shop was built two years ago=2E All the 120 circuits have >GFCI break ers=2E Specifically Siemens type QPF, 20a=2E > >About a month ago, whenev er I went into the shop, one of the breakers >would be tripped=2E The only thing on that circuit is a lathe and work >light=2E I unplugged them and i t would be tripped the next morning=2E I >swapped the circuit with a diffe rent breaker and the same breaker kept >tripping=2E So it would appear that I've got a bad breaker=2E > >I went to Home Depot and got a new one ($53 !!! :x )=2E All good now=2E > >Except now there's a breaker on a comple tely different circuit >tripping=2E This one only stays set for about an h our before tripping >(with nothing connected to the circuit)=2E > >I did a quick google and it appears that this is common and referred to >as "nuis ance tripping"=2E > >Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve it without dropping >another $53? > > >Read this topic online here: > >ht tp://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewtopic=2Ephp?p=472926#472926 > > ========== t Email Forum - Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, ch more: ctric-List =============== MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - Forums! ======= /wiki=2Ematronics=2Ecom ================= - List Contribution Web Site - t! --> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 ______________________________ _______ Time: 06:23:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: C&K Any chance of condensation or water leakage? I've also seen tripping issues when mice get at the wiring. Ken On 16/09/2017 8:47 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Sure. $7 breaker. :-) > > Charlie > On Sep 16, 2017, at 6:14 PM, donjohnston > wrote: > > > My current shop was built two years ago. All the 120 circuits have GFCI breakers. Specifically Siemens type QPF, 20a. > > About a month ago, whenever I went into the shop, one of the breakers would be tripped. The only thing on that circuit is a lathe and work light. I unplugged them and it would be tripped the next morning. I swapped the circuit with a different breaker and the same breaker kept tripping. So it would appear that I've got a bad breaker. > > I went to Home Depot and got a new one ($53!!! :x ). All good now. > > Except now there's a breaker on a completely different circuit tripping. This one only stays set for about an hour before tripping (with nothing connected to the circuit). > > I did a quick google and it appears that this is common and referred to as "nuisance tripping". > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve it without dropping another $53? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472926# 472926atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naa > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. matronics.com/contribution > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:26 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: "donjohnston" ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote: > Sure. $7 breaker. :-) > Thanks for the tip on how to void my homeowners insurance. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472938#472938 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: "donjohnston" yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co wrote: > Any chance of condensation or water leakage? > I've also seen tripping issues when mice get at the wiring. > No. Nice and dry with no rodents. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472939#472939 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:52 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel Don, Thanks. Since there is no ground pin on the PSE J1 connector, I will just leave the Mic GND (what PSE calls "Mic Lo") disconnected at that end. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM, don van santen wrote: > Art, I talked to PSE and they said to either leave the mic lo disconnected > at both ends or connect as you did at radio end and connect to the ground > wire at the PSE end. The shield connects to the rest of the PSE shields. No > double ended > shield connections. > Don > > On Sep 16, 2017 15:47, "Art Zemon" wrote: > > Folks, > > I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer quicker than I can get an > answer from VAL Avionics, since it is a weekend. > > My VAL COM 2000 radio shows microphone connections for > > - Mic Key > - Mic Audio > - Mic GND > - Shield tied to Mic GND (grounded at one end only) > > My PS Engineering audio panel shows microphone connections for > > - Mic Key > - Mic Audio > - Shield (grounded at one end only) > > What do I do with the Mic GND? Is tying it to the shield and grounding it > at one end sufficient? > > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:16 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: "user9253" A ground fault outlet could be used instead of a ground fault circuit breaker. A ground fault outlet can be wired to protect all other outlets that are electrically located downstream from it. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472941#472941 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:15 AM PST US From: don van santen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel Art, the ground that PSE was referong to is the two ground wires in the power and ground section. The audio panel will not funtion without a power return (ground). On Sep 17, 2017 05:02, "Art Zemon" wrote: > Don, > > Thanks. Since there is no ground pin on the PSE J1 connector, I will just > leave the Mic GND (what PSE calls "Mic Lo") disconnected at that end. > > Cheers, > -- Art Z. > > On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM, don van santen > wrote: > >> Art, I talked to PSE and they said to either leave the mic lo >> disconnected at both ends or connect as you did at radio end and connect to >> the ground wire at the PSE end. The shield connects to the rest of the PSE >> shields. No double ended >> shield connections. >> Don >> >> On Sep 16, 2017 15:47, "Art Zemon" wrote: >> >> Folks, >> >> I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer quicker than I can get an >> answer from VAL Avionics, since it is a weekend. >> >> My VAL COM 2000 radio shows microphone connections for >> >> - Mic Key >> - Mic Audio >> - Mic GND >> - Shield tied to Mic GND (grounded at one end only) >> >> My PS Engineering audio panel shows microphone connections for >> >> - Mic Key >> - Mic Audio >> - Shield (grounded at one end only) >> >> What do I do with the Mic GND? Is tying it to the shield and grounding it >> at one end sufficient? >> >> >> > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:54 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm Radio Mic Cable -> Audio Panel Yes, I understand that. -- Art Z. On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 8:38 AM, don van santen wrote: > Art, the ground that PSE was referong to is the two ground wires in the > power and ground section. The audio panel will not funtion without a power > return (ground). > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:22 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: "donjohnston" user9253 wrote: > A ground fault outlet could be used instead of a ground fault circuit breaker. A ground fault outlet can be wired to protect all other outlets that are electrically located downstream from it. Not here. Code requires a GFCI circuit breaker in the panel. Otherwisie I would have gone that route because the outlets don't seem to have as many nuisance trips as the breakers do. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472944#472944 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:42 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: "jonlaury" >From Electrician.com: Try to keep your circuit length Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472947#472947 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) From: Charlie England On 9/17/2017 4:20 AM, donjohnston wrote: > > > ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote: >> Sure. $7 breaker. :-) >> > > Thanks for the tip on how to void my homeowners insurance. Sorry for the short, then delayed answers; I was on the road & fingering my phone. I certainly wasn't trying to get you in trouble with anyone. But your 1st post said 'every 120 breaker' which I guess means every 120V breaker in that panel. Unless the NEC has changed radically in the last few years, the only place GFI breakers are required is near water (over kitchen/bathroom sinks, outdoors, etc). I've seen a *lot* of CB panels, and I've never seen one where every 120V breaker was GFI. Are you in some country other than the USA, or some state or county with bizarrely draconian electrical codes? I know that if a contractor tried to tell me I needed GFIs in every slot, I'd be looking for another contractor. Having said all that, if I were getting random GFI trips with nothing on the circuit, I'd be looking for 'issues' with both the ground wiring and the neutral wiring. I'd probably start with the neutral, making sure that its 'bond' to the ground in the panel is secure. Also, you can buy an inexpensive GFI tester for <$20, if you shop around online. There's tons of posts online about troubleshooting the issue, too. Here's a link from a reputable meter mfgr discussing how to troubleshoot the problem. http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:14 PM PST US From: Bob Kuc Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) I believe that the code now states that arc fault are needed everywhere. Gfci do not like anything that has a motor on it, like microwaves, refrigerators, dishwashers. On Sep 17, 2017 7:42 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: > ceengland7@gmail.com> > > On 9/17/2017 4:20 AM, donjohnston wrote: > >> don@velocity-xl.com> >> >> >> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Sure. $7 breaker. :-) >>> >>> >> Thanks for the tip on how to void my homeowners insurance. >> > Sorry for the short, then delayed answers; I was on the road & fingering > my phone. > > I certainly wasn't trying to get you in trouble with anyone. But your 1st > post said 'every 120 breaker' which I guess means every 120V breaker in > that panel. Unless the NEC has changed radically in the last few years, the > only place GFI breakers are required is near water (over kitchen/bathroom > sinks, outdoors, etc). I've seen a *lot* of CB panels, and I've never seen > one where every 120V breaker was GFI. Are you in some country other than > the USA, or some state or county with bizarrely draconian electrical codes? > > I know that if a contractor tried to tell me I needed GFIs in every slot, > I'd be looking for another contractor. > > Having said all that, if I were getting random GFI trips with nothing on > the circuit, I'd be looking for 'issues' with both the ground wiring and > the neutral wiring. I'd probably start with the neutral, making sure that > its 'bond' to the ground in the panel is secure. Also, you can buy an > inexpensive GFI tester for <$20, if you shop around online. There's tons of > posts online about troubleshooting the issue, too. > > Here's a link from a reputable meter mfgr discussing how to troubleshoot > the problem. > http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/ > articlecategories/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips > > > Charlie > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:13 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: AeroElectric-List: starter contactor Does anyone know if there is an automotive source or part number for the traditional three-terminal intermittent duty cycle starter contactor? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:26 PM PST US From: Gerald Farek Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) Great article! Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 17, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > >> On 9/17/2017 4:20 AM, donjohnston wrote: >> >> >> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote: >>> Sure. $7 breaker. :-) >>> >> >> Thanks for the tip on how to void my homeowners insurance. > Sorry for the short, then delayed answers; I was on the road & fingering my phone. > > I certainly wasn't trying to get you in trouble with anyone. But your 1st post said 'every 120 breaker' which I guess means every 120V breaker in that panel. Unless the NEC has changed radically in the last few years, the only place GFI breakers are required is near water (over kitchen/bathroom sinks, outdoors, etc). I've seen a *lot* of CB panels, and I've never seen one where every 120V breaker was GFI. Are you in some country other than the USA, or some state or county with bizarrely draconian electrical codes? > > I know that if a contractor tried to tell me I needed GFIs in every slot, I'd be looking for another contractor. > > Having said all that, if I were getting random GFI trips with nothing on the circuit, I'd be looking for 'issues' with both the ground wiring and the neutral wiring. I'd probably start with the neutral, making sure that its 'bond' to the ground in the panel is secure. Also, you can buy an inexpensive GFI tester for <$20, if you shop around online. There's tons of posts online about troubleshooting the issue, too. > > Here's a link from a reputable meter mfgr discussing how to troubleshoot the problem. > http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips > > > Charlie > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > .. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: starter contactor From: Robert Borger Alec, Go to Pep Boys and search on starter solenoid and there are a number of them to choose from. Prices range from $175.99 to $11.99. Surely one of them will tickle your fancy. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Sep 17, 2017, at 7:35 PM, Alec Myers wrote: Does anyone know if there is an automotive source or part number for the traditional three-terminal intermittent duty cycle starter contactor? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:12 PM PST US From: ashleysc@broadstripe.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: starter contactor Hi Alec; Try Aircraft Spruce Part # 11-03162, which is a Unipoint Part # SNLS-135T. They must be having a weak moment and have it on sale for less than $10. Cheers! Stu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alec Myers" Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 5:35:27 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: starter contactor Does anyone know if there is an automotive source or part number for the traditional three-terminal intermittent duty cycle starter contactor? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: starter contactor From: Charlie England Or do the same on ebay until you see one that looks suitable, & either order it, or get the make/model of the car it fits to the local auto parts store. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=starter+relay&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xstarter+solenoid.TRS0&_nkw=starter+solenoid&_sacat=0 On 9/17/2017 7:56 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Alec, > > Go to Pep Boys and search on starter solenoid and there are a number of them to choose from. Prices range from $175.99 to $11.99. Surely one of them will tickle your fancy. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Sep 17, 2017, at 7:35 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > > Does anyone know if there is an automotive source or part number for the traditional three-terminal intermittent duty cycle starter contactor? > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:08 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: starter contactor At 07:35 PM 9/17/2017, you wrote: > >Does anyone know if there is an automotive source or part number for >the traditional three-terminal intermittent duty cycle starter contactor? There are dozens . . . A partial list of cross-reference numbers includes F3914, SS-598, F496, 1M1517 They look like this http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Starter_Contact and have the words 'DIODE SUPRESSED' stamped on the bottom . . . it will work Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.