Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:01 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (jonlaury)
2. 11:13 AM - Master Alarm beeper chirping (hmanvel)
3. 11:14 AM - Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (jonlaury)
4. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (Charlie England)
5. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 05:13 PM - Re: Master Alarm beeper chirping (user9253)
7. 05:29 PM - Basic question about contactors (Alec Myers)
8. 08:54 PM - Re: Basic question about contactors (don van santen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 06:39 PM 9/17/2017, you wrote:
>
>
> ...Similarly, a wall-receptacle GFI can be used as
>
> ...a test tool. You can wire your 'problem feeder'
> to the LOAD pair of terminals while using a pair
> of jumpers from the LINE pair to the panel ground
> and any handy breaker. See if the test GFI complains
> about feeder quality...
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
Is this correct?? Sounds like using a pair of jumpers from LINE pair to the panel
ground is going to make a lot of sparks and smoke.
2nd Question:
In using a clamp on meter as depicted, assuming it can detect 5ma leak, will the
meter show an absolute number? or will it show a positive value for leakage
on the hot leg and a negative value for the neutral leg?
That would be convenient :D
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473006#473006
Message 2
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| Subject: | Master Alarm beeper chirping |
I have a simple alarm system for canopy and gear warning in a Rutan aircraft.
Microswitches on the nosewheel, throttle, and canopy latch. This has worked fine
for years. Now I notice that when I switch on the master, and when I switch
it off, I'm getting a very brief "chirp" from the warning buzzer. This system
is not connected to anything else, (except for power and ground of course)
so is standalone. Could this be simply aging of the microswitches? Any thoughts
before I contort myself to access the nosewheel switch under the instrument
panel? FYI - 12 volt system, master switch is a solenoid operated by a toggle
switch.
--------
Harry Manvel
Defiant N2HM
PTK / Pontiac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473007#473007
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) |
Just out of curiosity, is the wiring in metal conduit, plastic flex, or Romex?
I have had to troubleshoot drywall nails/screws that hit the bullseye in Romex,
w/o nail plates,between the hot/neutral and bare ground wire. A lot less likely
in plastic conduit because the wires are free to be pushed aside...unless you
were born under a bad sign. Metal self-explanatory.
John
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473008#473008
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) |
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM, jonlaury <jonlaury@impulse.net> wrote:
>
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> > At 06:39 PM 9/17/2017, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > ...Similarly, a wall-receptacle GFI can be used as
> >
> > ...a test tool. You can wire your 'problem feeder'
> > to the LOAD pair of terminals while using a pair
> > of jumpers from the LINE pair to the panel ground
> > and any handy breaker. See if the test GFI complains
> > about feeder quality...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
> Is this correct?? Sounds like using a pair of jumpers from LINE pair to
> the panel ground is going to make a lot of sparks and smoke.
>
> 2nd Question:
> In using a clamp on meter as depicted, assuming it can detect 5ma leak,
> will the meter show an absolute number? or will it show a positive value
> for leakage on the hot leg and a negative value for the neutral leg?
> That would be convenient :D
>
> John
>
> I think he's telling you to take your shop's wiring out of that circuit.
Tie the neutral side (both ends) to ground instead of the neutral. Feed the
GFI from a regular breaker. If your shop wiring is causing the problem
(nail, screw, etc) then the GFI will no longer see the current imbalance &
won't trip. If the GFI is flaky, it will still trip.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: GFCI Breaker keeps tripping (Non Aviation) |
At 02:52 PM 9/19/2017, you wrote:
>On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM, jonlaury
><<mailto:jonlaury@impulse.net>jonlaury@impulse.net> wrote:
>"jonlaury" <<mailto:jonlaury@impulse.net>jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
>
>nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> > At 06:39 PM 9/17/2017, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >=C2 =C2 ...Similarly, a wall-receptacle GFI can be used as
> >
> >=C2 =C2 ...a test tool. You can wire your 'problem feeder'
> >=C2 =C2 to the LOAD pair of terminals while using a pair
> >=C2 =C2 of jumpers from the LINE pair to the panel ground
> >=C2 =C2 and any handy breaker. See if the test GFI complains
> >=C2 =C2 about feeder quality...
>. .
>
>
>Is this correct?? Sounds like using a pair of jumpers from LINE pair
>to the panel ground is going to make a lot of sparks and smoke.
Perhaps my description was unclear . . . Let's
try again. GFIs come in a variety of flavors not
the least of which is the NEMA wall outlets with
built in GFI. These outlets have TWO sets of terminals:
(1) a line/neutral pair that faces the distribution
box and (2) a line/neutral pair that can drive a downstream
load with the added benefit of GF protection.
You can wire one of these devices to operate not unlike
the GFI fitted to the end of an appliance cord. A l/n
pair of wires connects to any handy breaker/ground
in the distribution box. The Romex to be investigated
connects to the l/n load terminals of the outlet.
One could salvage a GFI cord of a hair dryer
(thrift stores are have 'em for a few bux). Cut
it at the dryer-end, strip back and add some alligator
clips.
Now you have a test tool that can plug into any
120vac source and clip to a feeder under investigation.
This too, like the suggestion above, simply adds a
'real' GFI in series with the feeder under study.
There is a caveat for using this methodology
to find ground fault issues (milliamperes),
suppose the breaker is tripping for reasons
of hard faults (hundreds of amps). If I were
to built a GFI test tool from a salavaged heater
cord, I think I would put fuse holders in series
with the alligator clips and populate them with
1 amp fuses. I do the same thing with my 'suicide
cords': short line cords with that let me
clip 120 vac to various articles under test.
Both of these tests simply substitute a known-good
GFI for the nuisance tripping GFI to see if
the fault is in the wiring (test GFI trips too) or
in the panel GFI (test GFI stays closed).
>2nd Question:
>In using a clamp on meter as depicted, assuming
>it can detect 5ma leak, will the meter show an
>absolute number? or will it show a positive
>value for leakage on the hot leg and a negative value for the neutral leg?
>That would be convenient :D
There is no 'polarity' to an AC measurement so
yes, a sensitive, clamp-on ammeter would only
display absolute value of the imbalance.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Master Alarm beeper chirping |
The vast majority of electrical problems are due to bad connections like poor crimps,
loose fasteners, and corroded terminals. Switches need exercising to remove
corrosion. Not saying a bad connection is your problem, but it is something
to check.
--------
Joe Gores
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473015#473015
Message 7
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| Subject: | Basic question about contactors |
Now that Im looking more carefully into contactors, Im getting confused.
The three-terminal Ford-type contactors on my Cessna - that is, the battery master
contactor, and the starter motor contactor all work by grounding the third
terminal, so the top of the coil must be connected to the 12v battery terminal,
internally.
The three-terminal starter contactor on my Luscombe has one end of the coil connected
internally to the case (ground) and operates when the third terminal is
connected to 12v.
So just to make sure Im understanding this, there are two *different* kinds of
three terminal ford-type contactors? And I guess you have to make sure you use
the right one?
And, surmising further, the benefit of the four terminal regulators is that they
can sub for either, by connecting the second coil terminal either to ground
or to 12v?
I just want to make sure I have this correct - do I?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Basic question about contactors |
Alec, There are two basic types of contactors that are either 3 or 4
terminal. Long duration ( battery contactor) And short duration ( starter).
Starter contactors generally have the coil grounded through their base.
Generally 4 terminal contactors are for start circuits and the 4th terminal
is hot when the contacyor is "on". I use this terminal to energise the
starter solenoid as this eliminates starter run on.
On Sep 19, 2017 17:32, "Alec Myers" <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
> Now that I=99m looking more carefully into contactors, I=99m
getting confused.
>
> The three-terminal Ford-type contactors on my Cessna - that is, the
> battery master contactor, and the starter motor contactor all work by
> grounding the third terminal, so the top of the coil must be connected to
> the 12v battery terminal, internally.
>
> The three-terminal starter contactor on my Luscombe has one end of the
> coil connected internally to the case (ground) and operates when the thir
d
> terminal is connected to 12v.
>
> So just to make sure I=99m understanding this, there are two *diffe
rent*
> kinds of three terminal ford-type contactors? And I guess you have to mak
e
> sure you use the right one?
> And, surmising further, the benefit of the four terminal regulators is
> that they can sub for either, by connecting the second coil terminal eith
er
> to ground or to 12v?
>
> I just want to make sure I have this correct - do I?
>
>
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