Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:11 PM - Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (Sebastien)
2. 04:47 PM - Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (user9253)
3. 05:13 PM - Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (Charlie England)
4. 05:59 PM - Unsupported coax length (Paul Eckenroth)
5. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (Sebastien)
6. 07:17 PM - Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (user9253)
7. 07:52 PM - Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
8. 09:25 PM - Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges (Sebastien)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
I am doing the test flying on a friend's RV-6 and as part of the
preparation I set up the engine monitor (Dynon 120) to display the
following on the voltmeter and ammater:
Voltmeter: Red below 10V, Yellow 10-13.8V, Green 13.8V-14.5V, Red > 14.5V
Ammeter (wired to show current flow in to the batter): Red < 0A, Green 0 -
5A, Yellow 5-30A, Red > 30A.
Battery is an Odyssey PC680 AGM. Alternator and regulator unknown, came
with the kit from Van's 10-20 years ago. My guess is Plane Power.
First Question: Do the ammeter settings seem reasonable? Obviously any
discharge (<0A) is red as indicative of a problem that requires landing
ASAP. Normal charge after a start has been observed to be < 5A within a
minute after start, a hard start or low battery would obviously make this
worse so I set green as 0-5A but don't have any good basis for this. Same
for the yellow and red bands. I want the yellow band to indicate that a
long time in this area is a problem, and red to be an immediate problem.
Normally once the battery has been charged after a start the value should
be zero so perhaps the green band should be 0-1A? What charge level going
into this battery would indicate an immediate problem (red band)?
\
After first flight the low current alarm was constantly going off so I
changed it from <0 to <1. Second flight had similar but not as frequent
problem so I was going to lower it a little more but then I was able to
download the engine monitor data to Savvy and WOW is it fantastic being
able to look at graphs of engine data. I have no idea what normal would
look like but here is a snap shot of the second flight:
You can see the battery amps wander between -2 to +2, with excursions to -3
+3 later in the flight (during large engine power changes).
Second Question: Is this behaviour indicative of:
A. Normal operation
B. Sensor problem
C. Charging system or battery problem
D. Something else
Thank you all for your input.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
My D-180 ammeter varies up and down to unreasonable numbers. I disconnected the
shunt and put a jumper directly across the plus and minus input on the D-180.
One would expect the D-180 to display 0 amps. But no, it still varies up and
down, not as bad as before, but still plus and minus 15 or 20 amps. I believe
it is a software problem. Maybe the Dynon 120 has the same problem.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473105#473105
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
On 9/23/2017 6:09 PM, Sebastien wrote:
> I am doing the test flying on a friend's RV-6 and as part of the
> preparation I set up the engine monitor (Dynon 120) to display the
> following on the voltmeter and ammater:
>
> Voltmeter: Red below 10V, Yellow 10-13.8V, Green 13.8V-14.5V, Red > 14.5V
> Ammeter (wired to show current flow in to the batter): Red < 0A, Green
> 0 - 5A, Yellow 5-30A, Red > 30A.
>
> Battery is an Odyssey PC680 AGM. Alternator and regulator unknown,
> came with the kit from Van's 10-20 years ago. My guess is Plane Power.
>
> First Question: Do the ammeter settings seem reasonable? Obviously any
> discharge (<0A) is red as indicative of a problem that requires
> landing ASAP. Normal charge after a start has been observed to be < 5A
> within a minute after start, a hard start or low battery would
> obviously make this worse so I set green as 0-5A but don't have any
> good basis for this. Same for the yellow and red bands. I want the
> yellow band to indicate that a long time in this area is a problem,
> and red to be an immediate problem. Normally once the battery has been
> charged after a start the value should be zero so perhaps the green
> band should be 0-1A? What charge level going into this battery would
> indicate an immediate problem (red band)?
> \
> After first flight the low current alarm was constantly going off so I
> changed it from <0 to <1. Second flight had similar but not as
> frequent problem so I was going to lower it a little more but then I
> was able to download the engine monitor data to Savvy and WOW is it
> fantastic being able to look at graphs of engine data. I have no idea
> what normal would look like but here is a snap shot of the second flight:
>
> You can see the battery amps wander between -2 to +2, with excursions
> to -3 +3 later in the flight (during large engine power changes).
>
> Second Question: Is this behaviour indicative of:
>
> A. Normal operation
> B. Sensor problem
> C. Charging system or battery problem
> D. Something else
>
> Thank you all for your input.
Well, here's my 2 volts...
Current readings depend on where the sensor is located in the system.
Assuming it's between the battery lead & the bus, it will show charge
for at least a short time after engine start, to replenish the battery.
After that, it should show more or less zero (with some slight
variation) because the alternator has fully charged the battery (no more
electrons flowing into the battery) and is supplying all the electron
needs of the avionics, etc. It would show discharge whenever the
alternator couldn't keep up with the load demands of the a/c, and the
battery started picking up the balance of the demand. (Shouldn't happen
unless you've intentionally undersized the alternator to save weight,
and are willing to accept temporary discharge during very short term
events like landing lights, gear extension/retraction, etc.) Other time
you'd see it is if the charging system is failing or has failed.
But I don't even have an ammeter on my current plane, & don't plan to
install one in the plane I'm building. Alternator voltage gives all info
needed during flight.
Voltage: At 10 volts, the battery is effectively dead, and you might not
see *any* indication from the EFIS engine monitor (or from the EFIS
itself). If I were setting limits, I'd realize that anything under
around 12.5 volts means the charging system is effectively dead (red).
I'd probably set the red limit even higher; around 13.5, because I'd
want to know instantly that I've lost charging. I'd only see the yellow
band as useful to show intermittent excess demand situations, where it
would go in & out of yellow as really big loads were exceeding the
alternator's capacity. So yellow from around 13.5 to just under that
particular alternator's 'normal' output voltage, which hopefully, is
over 14.3 or so to keep the AGM battery fully charged. Red again above
about 14.8 or so, since Odyssey says 14.7 is a safe level of initial
charge voltage.
Hope its at least worth what you paid...
Charlie
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Unsupported coax length |
Looking for advise on what the max acceptable unsupported horizontal length
of RG400 coax might be. I have 23" between fuselage ribs and was planning
on running the coax through a grommet in the tooling holes but then started
questioning if this was good practice. So opinions are requested.
Thanks
Paul
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
Very interesting Joe, thanks for the reply. Did you try upgrading the firmware?
Did you follow up with Dynon about this behaviour? In view of your experience
I think I'll give them a call on Monday.
Sebastien
> On Sep 24, 2017, at 01:47, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> My D-180 ammeter varies up and down to unreasonable numbers. I disconnected
the shunt and put a jumper directly across the plus and minus input on the D-180.
One would expect the D-180 to display 0 amps. But no, it still varies up
and down, not as bad as before, but still plus and minus 15 or 20 amps. I believe
it is a software problem. Maybe the Dynon 120 has the same problem.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473105#473105
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
Yes, the D-180 firmware is up to date. No, I did not contact Dynon. The ammeter
function is not important to me. I agree with Charlie, the voltmeter tells
me how the charging system is working.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473109#473109
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
Hi Sebastien;
Flow out of the battery is not abnormal and will happen whenever your aircraft
consumes more power than its alternator can generate. It is not generally a signal
to land immediately, but to reduce power consumption (like turn off the landing
lights).
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sebastien" <cluros@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 4:09:48 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges
I am doing the test flying on a friend's RV-6 and as part of the preparation I
set up the engine monitor (Dynon 120) to display the following on the voltmeter
and ammater:
Voltmeter: Red below 10V, Yellow 10-13.8V, Green 13.8V-14.5V, Red > 14.5V
Ammeter (wired to show current flow in to the batter): Red < 0A, Green 0 - 5A,
Yellow 5-30A, Red > 30A.
Battery is an Odyssey PC680 AGM. Alternator and regulator unknown, came with the
kit from Van's 10-20 years ago. My guess is Plane Power.
First Question: Do the ammeter settings seem reasonable? Obviously any discharge
(<0A) is red as indicative of a problem that requires landing ASAP. Normal charge
after a start has been observed to be < 5A within a minute after start,
a hard start or low battery would obviously make this worse so I set green as
0-5A but don't have any good basis for this. Same for the yellow and red bands.
I want the yellow band to indicate that a long time in this area is a problem,
and red to be an immediate problem. Normally once the battery has been charged
after a start the value should be zero so perhaps the green band should be
0-1A? What charge level going into this battery would indicate an immediate problem
(red band)?
\
After first flight the low current alarm was constantly going off so I changed
it from <0 to <1. Second flight had similar but not as frequent problem so I was
going to lower it a little more but then I was able to download the engine
monitor data to Savvy and WOW is it fantastic being able to look at graphs of
engine data. I have no idea what normal would look like but here is a snap shot
of the second flight:
You can see the battery amps wander between -2 to +2, with excursions to -3 +3
later in the flight (during large engine power changes).
Second Question: Is this behaviour indicative of:
A. Normal operation
B. Sensor problem
C. Charging system or battery problem
D. Something else
Thank you all for your input.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges |
I'm guessing from some of the responses I'm getting that the picture I attac
hed did not go through. The apparent current flow out of the battery is not f
rom a high load. We're talking a 40-60 amp alternator powering 10 amps worth
of instruments and radios. The load cycles from -2 to +2 amps at least 50 t
imes over the course of a 1 hour flight and it's not because someone's hidin
g under the floorboards flicking the lights on and off :).
I'll try attaching the engine analyzer data again tomorrow. I did manage to c
heck a few minutes of data from an identical analyzer in a different aircraf
t and while it did cycle up and down a bit, it never showed negative.
Sebastien
> On Sep 24, 2017, at 04:50, ashleysc@broadstripe.net wrote:
>
> Hi Sebastien;
> Flow out of the battery is not abnormal and will happen whenever your airc
raft consumes more power than its alternator can generate. It is not general
ly a signal to land immediately, but to reduce power consumption (like turn o
ff the landing lights).
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> From: "Sebastien" <cluros@gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 4:09:48 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltmeter & Ammeter normal ranges
>
> I am doing the test flying on a friend's RV-6 and as part of the preparati
on I set up the engine monitor (Dynon 120) to display the following on the v
oltmeter and ammater:
>
> Voltmeter: Red below 10V, Yellow 10-13.8V, Green 13.8V-14.5V, Red > 14.5V
> Ammeter (wired to show current flow in to the batter): Red < 0A, Green 0 -
5A, Yellow 5-30A, Red > 30A.
>
> Battery is an Odyssey PC680 AGM. Alternator and regulator unknown, came wi
th the kit from Van's 10-20 years ago. My guess is Plane Power.
>
> First Question: Do the ammeter settings seem reasonable? Obviously any dis
charge (<0A) is red as indicative of a problem that requires landing ASAP. N
ormal charge after a start has been observed to be < 5A within a minute afte
r start, a hard start or low battery would obviously make this worse so I se
t green as 0-5A but don't have any good basis for this. Same for the yellow a
nd red bands. I want the yellow band to indicate that a long time in this ar
ea is a problem, and red to be an immediate problem. Normally once the batte
ry has been charged after a start the value should be zero so perhaps the gr
een band should be 0-1A? What charge level going into this battery would ind
icate an immediate problem (red band)?
> \
> After first flight the low current alarm was constantly going off so I cha
nged it from <0 to <1. Second flight had similar but not as frequent problem
so I was going to lower it a little more but then I was able to download th
e engine monitor data to Savvy and WOW is it fantastic being able to look at
graphs of engine data. I have no idea what normal would look like but here i
s a snap shot of the second flight:
>
> You can see the battery amps wander between -2 to +2, with excursions to -
3 +3 later in the flight (during large engine power changes).
>
> Second Question: Is this behaviour indicative of:
>
> A. Normal operation
> B. Sensor problem
> C. Charging system or battery problem
> D. Something else
>
> Thank you all for your input.
>
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