---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Carlos Trigo) 2. 05:48 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Peter Pengilly) 3. 06:37 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Kelly McMullen) 4. 07:27 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (C&K) 5. 07:40 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Carlos Trigo) 6. 08:17 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 10:22 AM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 01:25 PM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Kelly McMullen) 9. 08:05 PM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Rick Beebe) 10. 08:12 PM - Re: Ground wire for LED lights (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:33 AM PST US From: Carlos Trigo Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights Sounds fair enough Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone No dia 03/11/2017, =C3-s 23:29, gwgregory escreveu : > I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of m y Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fus elage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe a nd 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the str obe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good , or not? > > > Sent from my Galaxy Tab=C2=AE S2 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:18 AM PST US From: "Peter Pengilly" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even so, 4A for 18g over 25=99 is on the edge of what the tables suggest is acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the supply wires? Peter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gwgregory Sent: 03 November 2017 23:29 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not? Sent from my Galaxy Tab=C2=AE S2 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights From: Kelly McMullen My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to accomplish very little. Are you really considering a separate ground wire for each wing tip? I also think your load analysis makes no sense, as each wingtip will have half of the load or less, not the whole load. Your numbers do not match what I see on Aero LEDs web site for current draw. I assume you are using the Pulsar NSP units with no separate tail light. Aero LEDs offers 20AWG wire to power the nav/strobe lights. The nav/strobe combos use #20 wire for ground coming out of the unit. The landing lights are shown at 3.2 amps on their install pdf. If it makes you feel better, I would use 20 AWG wire for the nav/strobe units ground back to the central ground. I definitely would not run ground of landing lights back to central ground, just ground locally. Kelly On 11/4/2017 5:46 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote: > Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is > certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even > so, 4A for 18g over 25 is on the edge of what the tables suggest is > acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long > will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the > supply wires? > > Peter > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *gwgregory > *Sent:* 03 November 2017 23:29 > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights > > I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of > my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars > and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each > wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for > nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be > about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 > AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not? > > Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2 > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights From: C&K I ran #18 to the wingtips. I wanted a spare wire in place anyway and thought it would be available if needed as a ground in the meantime since I have strobe power packs and wigwag halogens out there. I can hear some noise from both those items with the engine off. That's fine as it reminds me to turn them off and I can't hear them with the engine running. Trying different ground paths including a local ground did not seem to make a difference. A spare wire never hurts IMO. Maybe a wingtip camera in the future, or there are now even options appearing for wingtip mounted ADDS-B receivers. Ken On 03/11/2017 7:29 PM, gwgregory wrote: > I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips > of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing > spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from > each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as > 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length > would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm > thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not? > > > Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:17 AM PST US From: Carlos Trigo Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights Kelly >From a long time weve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise. Would you explain why this isnt correct? Thanks Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone No dia 04/11/2017, s 13:35, Kelly McMullen escreveu: > > My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to accomplish very little. Are you really considering a separate ground wire for each wing tip? I also think your load analysis makes no sense, as each wingtip will have half of the load or less, not the whole load. > Your numbers do not match what I see on Aero LEDs web site for current draw. I assume you are using the Pulsar NSP units with no separate tail light. Aero LEDs offers 20AWG wire to power the nav/strobe lights. The nav/strobe combos use #20 wire for ground coming out of the unit. > The landing lights are shown at 3.2 amps on their install pdf. > If it makes you feel better, I would use 20 AWG wire for the nav/strobe units ground back to the central ground. I definitely would not run ground of landing lights back to central ground, just ground locally. > Kelly > >> On 11/4/2017 5:46 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote: >> Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even so, 4A for 18g over 25 is on the edge of what the tables suggest is acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the supply wires? >> Peter >> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *gwgregory >> *Sent:* 03 November 2017 23:29 >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights >> I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not? >> Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights At 08:35 AM 11/4/2017, you wrote: > >My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire >for ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for >audio noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of >effort to accomplish very little. Are you really considering a >separate ground wire for each wing tip? Agreed . . . I'd use airframe grounds if available. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights At 09:38 AM 11/4/2017, you wrote: > >Kelly > > >From a long time we=99ve been told by the > experts that using a separate wire for ground, > thus avoiding the ground path through the > airplane structure, will certainly guarantee > that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise. > >Would you explain why this isn=99t correct? Ground induced noises occur when potential VICTIMS (radios, intercomm, etc) SHARE ground pathways with potential ANTAGONISTS (alternators, hydraulic pump motors, xenon strobes, etc.). The easiest way to avoid the unwanted exchange of energy is to build a 'ground wall' around victims. This is what prompted the development of the panel ground bus illustrated in the in this document . . . http://tinyurl.com/ycqp622u This product is currently not in production but it's easy to build one. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights From: Kelly McMullen What Bob said. Keep avionics grounds, especially audio grounds together, grounded to single point. Use airframe for big current items and resistive loads. That assumes that airframe is of a relatively conductive metal...otherwise, airframes like composites obviously require wire ground paths. A few items that are known noise makers, like some varieties of HID lights need special treatment, as well as xenon strobes, but both those items are getting replaced in the market by LED. On 11/4/2017 7:38 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > Kelly > >>From a long time weve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise. > > Would you explain why this isnt correct? > > Thanks > Carlos > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights From: Rick Beebe I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to make it a priority. --Rick On 11/04/2017 04:23 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > What Bob said. Keep avionics grounds, especially audio grounds together, > grounded to single point. Use airframe for big current items and > resistive loads. That assumes that airframe is of a relatively > conductive metal...otherwise, airframes like composites obviously > require wire ground paths. > A few items that are known noise makers, like some varieties of HID > lights need special treatment, as well as xenon strobes, but both those > items are getting replaced in the market by LED. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights From: Kelly McMullen Interesting. My Aveo nav/strobe LEDs are perfectly quiet in my Bose A20s. On 11/4/2017 8:03 PM, Rick Beebe wrote: > > I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be > fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same > wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to > make it a priority. > > --Rick > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.