Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:19 AM - Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails (rvtach)
2. 09:41 AM - Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits (Jared Yates)
3. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Ken Ryan)
4. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Mounting Holes for B&C Fuse Blocks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:24 AM - Re: Seeking Prior Discussion On Adding Rotax External Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:32 AM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:47 AM - Re: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits (don van santen)
9. 11:23 AM - No e-mails (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
10. 11:28 AM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Ken Ryan)
11. 11:42 AM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Ken Ryan)
12. 01:15 PM - Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D? (Eric Page)
13. 03:09 PM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:31 PM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (user9253)
15. 04:15 PM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Ken Ryan)
16. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Ken Ryan)
17. 05:15 PM - Re: stacking ring terminals or ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails |
Same with my account. When I initially checked my subscription status it showed
that I was subscribed to Aeroelectric list Digest emails. So I unsubscribed and
re-upped thinking that might "re-set" everything to the way it used to be.
No joy. So I unsubscribed again, waited 24 hours and re-subscribed and still no
digest.
Any help Matt?
--------
Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A Finishing Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476294#476294
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits |
In the course of investigating a possible ground loop in the audio system,
I'm wondering if the Bose LEMO jacks might be to blame. As I understand the
Bose instructions, it seems that the ground for the ANR system returns via
the audio grounds. I have the LEMO jacks geographically adjacent and
electrically parallel to the traditional 1/4" jacks, with about 4 inches of
wire between them, with no shields. Wires going from the traditional jacks
to the intercom are shielded with the shields grounded to the intercom back
plate only.
Here is how I have the LEMO pins wired currently:
Pin 1 goes to a fuse on the main bus
Pin 2 goes to the sleeve on the 1/4 audio connector (Ground, audio low,
goes to intercom audio low pin associated with the seat)
Pin 3 goes to the tip on the 1/4 audio connector (Left audio, goes to
intercom)
Pin 4 goes to the ring on the 1/4 audio connector (right audio, goes to
intercom)
Pin 5 goes to the ring on the .206 mic connector (mic high, goes to
intercom)
Pin 6 goes to the sleeve on the .206 mic connector (mic low, goes to
intercom)
The intercom is a PSEngineering PAR100EX, though the symptoms have
persisted through a few intercoms. All mic and audio jacks are isolated
from ground with insulating washers.
They symptoms are a faint crackly noise from the Skyview system that goes
away when it is powered off, and RPM-dependent noise from the alternator
that goes away when I de-energize the field. I measured 0.6 volts AC on the
alternator output, but Plane Power says anything less than 1 volt is in
spec. 1 volt seems a little high relative to the conventional wisdom I'm
finding elsewhere. Does that sound reasonable?
I'm open to any troubleshooting strategies for trying to make the noise go
away.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
Thanks Joe. I got 3 X 14awg into a #10 terminal, and good strain relief
using self-fusing silicone tape. Next up, two 16awg + 1 14awg, and then a
single #10. Three ring terminals instead of seven. (original post forgot
about a voltage sensing wire)
On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 1:36 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I prefer to use as few ring terminals as possible. For a similar
> situation, I have used a ring terminal made for #10 wire and filled it with
> several smaller wires. The ring terminal screw hole is available in
> various sizes. Heat shrink tubing around all of the wires and terminal
> barrel will provide some strain relief.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476276#476276
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting Holes for B&C Fuse Blocks |
At 09:45 AM 12/9/2017, you wrote:
><jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
>The text says, "ships with #10-32 hardware". --- But they don't ---
>
>
It's been a few years but If I recall correctly,
that's an 'echo' of the Bussman literature describing
the fuse block . . . and it refers to the wire
attach post on the end of the bus bar . . . not
the hardward that attaches to the aircraft.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Seeking Prior Discussion On Adding Rotax External |
Alternator
At 11:03 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote:
>
>I'm adding the external 40A alternator to the Rotax 912. I've
>looked at the Rotax wiring diagrams and Z 12-14. I'd like to take
>advantage of any prior discussion about this topic rather than start
>a new message to till old ground. I don't see anything in the
>archives but am hoping if there is something someone can point me to it.
>Thanks
>
>
If it were my airplane, I'd go with Z13/8 wherein
the 40A machine becomes the main alternator and the
18A PM alternator becomes the standby . . .
An alternative is to wire like Z12 with BOTH alternators
driving the main bus directly wherein the 18A alternator
is still the standby.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
At 02:04 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote:
>I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the
>capacitor associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my
>options are to use a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack
>them on the stud, run several wires (as convenient) into a single
>ring terminal, reducing the number of terminals to three, or use the
>stud to attach some sort of "bus bar" that will accept the separate
>ring terminals. Are all of these methods acceptable? Does one sound
>better than the rest?
How did you get so many wires on the capacitor . . .
we generally see two or less per terminal.
Emacs!
More than two gets a bit messy in that you
have to clock the terminals around the stud
to achieve mate up. Putting two or more wires
into an appropriately sized terminal is acceptable
and in your case, may be the more elegant solution.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails |
At 10:18 AM 12/10/2017, you wrote:
>
>Same with my account. When I initially checked my subscription
>status it showed that I was subscribed to Aeroelectric list Digest
>emails. So I unsubscribed and re-upped thinking that might "re-set"
>everything to the way it used to be. No joy. So I unsubscribed
>again, waited 24 hours and re-subscribed and still no digest.
>
>Any help Matt?
If you want to contact Matt, you need to email
him directly at
dralle@matronics.com
There is no practical way he can monitor an
pick up questions directed to him from the
text of a posting . . .
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits |
Jared,
I had the same noises on my last install of Bose Lemo plugs. I used the
number 22 black with white stripe wire that is listed as the shield in the
instructions.
All my other devices say to keep the shield grounds less than 4 in hes long.
I just finished a new install of two Lemo plugs and this time I cut the
black/white wires off abd spliced the shields from the head phone and mic
cables to the audio paneh shield wires. Perfectly quiet now.
I do not have the normal jacks in this plane but those long shield grounds
on the Lemo plugs look to be the problem.
You said you did not use the shields, maybe removing the b/w wire and using
a splice to the shields would help on your setup as well.
Don
On Sunday, December 10, 2017, Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com> wrote:
> In the course of investigating a possible ground loop in the audio
system, I'm wondering if the Bose LEMO jacks might be to blame. As I
understand the Bose instructions, it seems that the ground for the ANR
system returns via the audio grounds. I have the LEMO jacks geographically
adjacent and electrically parallel to the traditional 1/4" jacks, with
about 4 inches of wire between them, with no shields. Wires going from the
traditional jacks to the intercom are shielded with the shields grounded to
the intercom back plate only.
> Here is how I have the LEMO pins wired currently:
> Pin 1 goes to a fuse on the main bus
> Pin 2 goes to the sleeve on the 1/4 audio connector (Ground, audio low,
goes to intercom audio low pin associated with the seat)
> Pin 3 goes to the tip on the 1/4 audio connector (Left audio, goes to
intercom)
> Pin 4 goes to the ring on the 1/4 audio connector (right audio, goes to
intercom)
> Pin 5 goes to the ring on the .206 mic connector (mic high, goes to
intercom)
> Pin 6 goes to the sleeve on the .206 mic connector (mic low, goes to
intercom)
> The intercom is a PSEngineering PAR100EX, though the symptoms have
persisted through a few intercoms. All mic and audio jacks are isolated
from ground with insulating washers.
>
> They symptoms are a faint crackly noise from the Skyview system that goes
away when it is powered off, and RPM-dependent noise from the alternator
that goes away when I de-energize the field. I measured 0.6 volts AC on the
alternator output, but Plane Power says anything less than 1 volt is in
spec. 1 volt seems a little high relative to the conventional wisdom I'm
finding elsewhere. Does that sound reasonable?
> I'm open to any troubleshooting strategies for trying to make the noise
go away.
Message 9
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|
Same with my account. When I checked my subscription status it showed that I was
subscribed to Aeroelectric list and other Digest emails. So I unsubscribed and
re-upped thinking that might "re-set" everything to the way it used to be.
No joy. So I unsubscribed again, waited 24 hours and re-subscribed and still no
digest.
I re-subscribed 3 times to no avail. E-mailed Matt and list manager with no reply
bobby
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
Bob,
This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function of the
dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up with so many
wires to my capacitor:
A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C)
B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump
C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the regulator-rectifier
(this could have been a smaller wire)
D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo
E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will probably
never use this)
The last one I added specifically because of your expressed dissatisfaction
with relegating the dynamo to only powering the fuel pump.
Drawing attached, but not confident it will show up on forum.
Ken
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:04 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote:
>
> I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the capacitor
> associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my options are to use
> a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack them on the stud, run
> several wires (as convenient) into a single ring terminal, reducing the
> number of terminals to three, or use the stud to attach some sort of "bus
> bar" that will accept the separate ring terminals. Are all of these methods
> acceptable? Does one sound better than the rest?
>
>
> How did you get so many wires on the capacitor . . .
> we generally see two or less per terminal.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> More than two gets a bit messy in that you
> have to clock the terminals around the stud
> to achieve mate up. Putting two or more wires
> into an appropriately sized terminal is acceptable
> and in your case, may be the more elegant solution.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
Correction to previous post:
A. 3 x 14AWG (not 16AWG)
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function of the
> dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up with so many
> wires to my capacitor:
>
> A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C)
> B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump
> C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the regulator-rectifier
> (this could have been a smaller wire)
> D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo
> E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will probably
> never use this)
>
> The last one I added specifically because of your expressed
> dissatisfaction with relegating the dynamo to only powering the fuel pump.
>
> Drawing attached, but not confident it will show up on forum.
>
> Ken
>
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 02:04 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote:
>>
>> I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the capacitor
>> associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my options are to use
>> a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack them on the stud, run
>> several wires (as convenient) into a single ring terminal, reducing the
>> number of terminals to three, or use the stud to attach some sort of "bus
>> bar" that will accept the separate ring terminals. Are all of these methods
>> acceptable? Does one sound better than the rest?
>>
>>
>> How did you get so many wires on the capacitor . . .
>> we generally see two or less per terminal.
>>
>> [image: Emacs!]
>>
>> More than two gets a bit messy in that you
>> have to clock the terminals around the stud
>> to achieve mate up. Putting two or more wires
>> into an appropriately sized terminal is acceptable
>> and in your case, may be the more elegant solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= |
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
Due to a circuit board layout error (which I'm blaming on stray particles from
space...) the screw holes in these PCBs are a full diameter out of alignment from
the mounting bosses in the enclosures. Fortunately, PCBs are cheap these
days, so I've revised the board and ordered new ones. They should be here o/a
16 Dec.
If you downloaded the related archive for this project, please update your files.
The PCB CAD file and Gerber files have changed, and there was a minor update
to an annotation in the schematic.
To avoid having to update multiple posts if there are further changes, I'm only
updating links in the original forum post. Thus, links for the current schematic
and design file archive can be found in the first post of this thread, above.
Link for email users: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16768408
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476317#476317
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
At 01:41 PM 12/10/2017, you wrote:
>Correction to previous post:
>
>A. 3 x 14AWG (not 16AWG)
>
>On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Ken Ryan
><<mailto:keninalaska@gmail.com>keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>Bob,
>
>This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function
>of the dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up
>with so many wires to my capacitor:
>
>A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C)
>B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump
>C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the
>regulator-rectifier (this could have been a smaller wire)
>D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo
>E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will
>probably never use this)
That's a pretty good wad of wires . . .
Suggest you fabricate a terminal post to mount
adjacent to the capacitor. Come to think of it,
I may have one already built. It's a piece of
Delrin about 2.3 x 0.8 inches and about 0.5
thick. Has two 10-32 studs 0.75 long and mounts
to airframe with 8-32 screws. The heads are countersunk
into the bottom and potted with JB Kwik. Needed
a dozen or so on a project about 10 years ago and
had some left over . . . now if I can just remember
where they are . . .
You can have it if you wish . . .
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
The Dynamo relay switch has a wire connected to the
momentary terminal. I see no purpose for that wire. It
is not required to energize regulator terminal "C"
because terminal C will get power through the relay and
30 amp fuse.
In my Rotax 912ULS powered RV-12, I connected the
capacitor to the main power bus through a 10 amp fuse.
(Inrush current blew 5 amp fuses)
There should be a switch to shut off fuel pump 1
unless that is a pullable circuit breaker. Shutting off
the relay will not shut off the fuel pump 1 because once
the rectifier/regulator is outputting power, it can not
be shut off except by shutting off the engine. I know
because I experimented with my plane by temporarily
connecting rectifier/regulator terminals R & B & C
together. The rectifier/regulator kept on outputting
power after the master switch was shut off.
The starter contactor coil and relay coil need arc
suppression diodes just like the master contactor coil.
The diode arrows point towards positive.
The 30amp fuse should be relocated close to the
starter contactor to protect the 10awg wire. The dynamo
is self current limiting.
Try using "express sch" to draw your schematics instead of paper and pencil.
It is free.
https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb/
Scroll down the web page to "DownLoad Classic" (RED box).
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476324#476324
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
Thanks for the offer Bob. No need to find them. I happen to have a small
bus bar that should serve the same purpose. It's good idea. Do you think #8
wire would be adequate for connecting it to the capacitor?
Ken
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 01:41 PM 12/10/2017, you wrote:
>
> Correction to previous post:
>
> A. 3 x 14AWG (not 16AWG)
>
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function of the
> dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up with so many
> wires to my capacitor:
>
> A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C)
> B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump
> C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the regulator-rectifier
> (this could have been a smaller wire)
> D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo
> E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will probably
> never use this)
>
> That's a pretty good wad of wires . . .
>
> Suggest you fabricate a terminal post to mount
> adjacent to the capacitor. Come to think of it,
> I may have one already built. It's a piece of
> Delrin about 2.3 x 0.8 inches and about 0.5
> thick. Has two 10-32 studs 0.75 long and mounts
> to airframe with 8-32 screws. The heads are countersunk
> into the bottom and potted with JB Kwik. Needed
> a dozen or so on a project about 10 years ago and
> had some left over . . . now if I can just remember
> where they are . . .
>
> You can have it if you wish . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
Joe,
Thanks much for taking the time to look at my drawing. Here's my thinking:
The Dynamo relay switch has a wire connected to the
momentary terminal. I see no purpose for that wire. It
is not required to energize regulator terminal "C"
because terminal C will get power through the relay and
30 amp fuse.
My intention was to completely isolate the two charging systems. Normal
operations would never call for the dynamo relay to be closed; I don't see
myself ever needing to close that relay. And if I did, it would be after
shutting down the alternator (again in the quest of keeping the systems
separate). The only reason I added that relay is because Bob objected to
relegating the dynamo to only powering the main fuel pump, so in deference
to his wisdom I worked in the relay which does make it "possible" to power
the bus using the dynamo. I "think" my architecture accomplishes these
objectives.
In my Rotax 912ULS powered RV-12, I connected the
capacitor to the main power bus through a 10 amp fuse.
(Inrush current blew 5 amp fuses)
That tells me that my 10 amp fuse on the bus for the wire that energizes
the regulator is correct.
There should be a switch to shut off fuel pump 1
unless that is a pullable circuit breaker. Shutting off
the relay will not shut off the fuel pump 1 because once
the rectifier/regulator is outputting power, it can not
be shut off except by shutting off the engine.
Again, the relay will remain open, unless some unanticipated event causes
me to close it. The 10 amp panel breaker is a pullable breaker and that is
my switch should I ever need to shut off the main fuel pump.
The starter contactor coil and relay coil need arc
suppression diodes just like the master contactor coil.
The diode arrows point towards positive.
Thank you! I definitely missed that. How could I watch this list for
several years (and own Bob's Bible) and still miss that?
The 30amp fuse should be relocated close to the
starter contactor to protect the 10awg wire.
Thank you for that, too. Sometimes I get confused on exactly what the fuse
is protecting!
Try using "express sch" to draw your schematics
instead of paper and pencil. It is free.
https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb/
Scroll down the web page to "DownLoad Classic" (RED box).
I will try it. I have tried a couple of programs in the past and found the
learning curve frustrating. I would love to be able to produce better
drawings.
Thanks again for looking at my stuff. Let me know if my reasoning above
makes sense to you.
Ken
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 2:31 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Dynamo relay switch has a wire connected to the
>
> momentary terminal. I see no purpose for that wire. It
>
> is not required to energize regulator terminal "C"
>
> because terminal C will get power through the relay and
>
> 30 amp fuse.
> In my Rotax 912ULS powered RV-12, I connected the
>
> capacitor to the main power bus through a 10 amp fuse.
>
> (Inrush current blew 5 amp fuses)
> There should be a switch to shut off fuel pump 1
>
> unless that is a pullable circuit breaker. Shutting off
>
> the relay will not shut off the fuel pump 1 because once
>
> the rectifier/regulator is outputting power, it can not
>
> be shut off except by shutting off the engine. I know
>
> because I experimented with my plane by temporarily
>
> connecting rectifier/regulator terminals R & B & C
>
> together. The rectifier/regulator kept on outputting
>
> power after the master switch was shut off.
> The starter contactor coil and relay coil need arc
>
> suppression diodes just like the master contactor coil.
>
> The diode arrows point towards positive.
> The 30amp fuse should be relocated close to the
>
> starter contactor to protect the 10awg wire. The dynamo
>
> is self current limiting.
> Try using "express sch" to draw your schematics instead of paper and
> pencil. It is free.
> https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb/
> Scroll down the web page to "DownLoad Classic" (RED box).
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476324#476324
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: stacking ring terminals or ? |
At 06:14 PM 12/10/2017, you wrote:
>Thanks for the offer Bob. No need to find them. I happen to have a
>small bus bar that should serve the same purpose. It's good idea. Do
>you think #8 wire would be adequate for connecting it to the capacitor?
#12 would probably be fine . . . you've only got a 20A
system.
Bob . . .
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