Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Shielded cable (Alec Myers)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Alec Myers)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Charlie England)
5. 07:10 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Alec Myers)
6. 07:18 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Stein Bruch)
7. 08:48 AM - Antenna cable? (Earl Schroeder)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: Antenna cable? (GTH)
9. 09:22 AM - Re: Antenna cable? (Stein Bruch)
10. 10:29 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:44 AM - Re: Antenna cable? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 12:18 PM - Re: Antenna cable? (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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Can anyone help:
Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except
shielded?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded cable |
At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote:
>
>Can anyone help:
>
>What=99s the go-to equivalent milspec number to
>22759/16 for avionics hookups, except shielded?
'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to
find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up
for ETFE insulation, there's little value to
be had for offering a less-than-military grade.
Another procurement problem is price breaks for
quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to
wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred
feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps
find value in color coded wires, then you find
yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths
of multiple sizes and colors.
From a sellers standpoint, it takes more
labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot
chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot
spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . .
the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured,
cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the
seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that
can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk
price offering.
Been there, done that, still have spools of wire
on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off
to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks
business.
Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir.
There are offerings on eBay like this
https://goo.gl/AmmFsV
CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that
call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE
(Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows
which insulation is on hand so you can get
the right one.
Finally, a google search on 22759 is going
to yield you a million+ hits . . .
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded cable |
Bob
I want the military grade. My supplier of choice is Allied Wire and Cable - but
I dont know which of their offerings to look at. When I want unshielded I go
for 22759/16 but I dont know what the shielded equivalent is.
Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists several different kinds with different
insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE:
http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables
I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make any difference?
Or should I use something else?
I just dont want raised eyebrows and a sucking-in of breath over beer at the aircraft
wiring club bar if I say what I used.
On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> Can anyone help:
>
> Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except
shielded?
'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to
find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up
for ETFE insulation, there's little value to
be had for offering a less-than-military grade.
Another procurement problem is price breaks for
quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to
wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred
feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps
find value in color coded wires, then you find
yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths
of multiple sizes and colors.
From a sellers standpoint, it takes more
labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot
chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot
spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . .
the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured,
cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the
seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that
can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk
price offering.
Been there, done that, still have spools of wire
on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off
to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks
business.
Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir.
There are offerings on eBay like this
https://goo.gl/AmmFsV
CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that
call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE
(Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows
which insulation is on hand so you can get
the right one.
Finally, a google search on 22759 is going
to yield you a million+ hits . . .
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded cable |
Here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?ei=VH50Ws_PO4z2swWIp4aoCA&q=fep+vs+etfe&o
q=FEP+vs+ETFE+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1.837.6597.0.14111.6.6.0.0.0.0.2
61.925.0j5j1.6.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.924...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i
7i5i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i30k1j35i39k1.0.lgKh6xCpZSk
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:42 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
> Bob
>
> I want the military grade. My supplier of choice is Allied Wire and Cable
> - but I don=99t know which of their offerings to look at. When I wa
nt
> unshielded I go for 22759/16 but I don=99t know what the shielded e
quivalent
> is.
>
> Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists several different kinds with
> different insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE:
> http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables
>
> I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make
> any difference? Or should I use something else?
>
> I just don=99t want raised eyebrows and a sucking-in of breath over
beer at
> the aircraft wiring club bar if I say what I used.
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> >
> > Can anyone help:
> >
> > What=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22
759/16 for avionics
> hookups, except shielded?
>
> 'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to
> find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up
> for ETFE insulation, there's little value to
> be had for offering a less-than-military grade.
>
> Another procurement problem is price breaks for
> quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to
> wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred
> feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps
> find value in color coded wires, then you find
> yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths
> of multiple sizes and colors.
>
> From a sellers standpoint, it takes more
> labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot
> chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot
> spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . .
> the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured,
> cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the
> seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that
> can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk
> price offering.
>
> Been there, done that, still have spools of wire
> on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off
> to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks
> business.
>
> Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir.
> There are offerings on eBay like this
>
> https://goo.gl/AmmFsV
>
>
> CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that
> call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE
> (Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows
> which insulation is on hand so you can get
> the right one.
>
> Finally, a google search on 22759 is going
> to yield you a million+ hits . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded cable |
I read the descriptions. I just want to know what everyone else uses :-)
On Feb 2, 2018, at 10:06 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
Here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?ei=VH50Ws_PO4z2swWIp4aoCA&q=fep+vs+etfe&oq=FEP+vs+ETFE+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1.837.6597.0.14111.6.6.0.0.0.0.261.925.0j5j1.6.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.924...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i7i5i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i30k1j35i39k1.0.lgKh6xCpZSk
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:42 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
Bob
I want the military grade. My supplier of choice is Allied Wire and Cable - but
I dont know which of their offerings to look at. When I want unshielded I go
for 22759/16 but I dont know what the shielded equivalent is.
Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists several different kinds with different
insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE:
http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables
I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make any difference?
Or should I use something else?
I just dont want raised eyebrows and a sucking-in of breath over beer at the aircraft
wiring club bar if I say what I used.
On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> Can anyone help:
>
> Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except
shielded?
'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to
find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up
for ETFE insulation, there's little value to
be had for offering a less-than-military grade.
Another procurement problem is price breaks for
quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to
wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred
feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps
find value in color coded wires, then you find
yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths
of multiple sizes and colors.
From a sellers standpoint, it takes more
labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot
chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot
spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . .
the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured,
cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the
seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that
can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk
price offering.
Been there, done that, still have spools of wire
on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off
to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks
business.
Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir.
There are offerings on eBay like this
https://goo.gl/AmmFsV
CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that
call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE
(Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows
which insulation is on hand so you can get
the right one.
Finally, a google search on 22759 is going
to yield you a million+ hits . . .
Bob . . .
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Message 6
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That IS the preferred wire for avionics hookups (single wires).....and the Shielded
is 27500 TG or TE (difference being the thickness of the insulation on the
inner conductors). "RC" wires are a not a recommended solution for a number
of reasons....
Stick with what everyone uses and what the manufacturers recommend, don't try to
re-invent the wheel here, you'll spend more time researching than it's worth
for the hundreds of dollars you'll spend to wire up the entire plane. We go
through millions of feet of this stuff per year, and there's a reason we stock
what we do. Gimme a shout and we'll be happy to help you out.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alec Myers
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 7:15 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable
Can anyone help:
Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except
shielded?
Message 7
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The recent discussions about shielded cable brought to mind a question.
I am in the process of installing a Garmin GDL-82 in an experimental aircraft.
The GDL-82 was purchased from Pacific coast aviation and arrived without any
antenna cable since the installed length was unknown.
The online instructions warned of a possible signal loss if standard RG 58 coax
was retained from the transponder output to the antenna suggesting changing to
RG 400 or equivalent. I am under the gun to get the installation completed
so a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait
but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought
the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal
loss.
I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are
close to the RG 58.
Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to use to limit
the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the transponder to the antenna.
The GDL-82 is four feet from the transponder and two feet from the antenna.
(The GDL-82 is spliced into the transponder output cable on the way to the
antenna to pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.)
I am inviting comments, suggestions and/or advice. Thanks, Earl
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna cable? |
Le 02/02/2018 17:42, Earl Schroeder a crit:
> a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait
but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought
the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal
loss.
>
> I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are
close to the RG 58.
>
> Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400
Hello Earl
Some info on the RG 400 coaxial
http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=rg400-coaxial-cable
Double braided shield, PTFE dielectric, etc.
And yes the diameter is close to that of the old RG 58.
B&C, Aircraft Spruce or any aviation supplier carry them.
FWIW,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
Message 9
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The 400 does not refer to the diameter (it's nearly identical to the 58)...and
beware of some of the Ebay stuff. There is much out there from recent hurricane
sales that has been under water and can be corroded. Not all of it of course,
but SOME. Anyway, to be sure if it's correct, just buy it from an aviation/avionics
shop and you'll be guaranteed it's good stuff that isn't old surplus
or something.
Now, as an aside - depending on the transponder you have (and how it's performing
before the upgrade/addition of the 82), the 58 you currently have might work
just fine, at least temporarily....
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Earl Schroeder
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 10:43 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable?
--> <n233ee@gmail.com>
The recent discussions about shielded cable brought to mind a question.
I am in the process of installing a Garmin GDL-82 in an experimental aircraft.
The GDL-82 was purchased from Pacific coast aviation and arrived without any
antenna cable since the installed length was unknown.
The online instructions warned of a possible signal loss if standard RG 58 coax
was retained from the transponder output to the antenna suggesting changing to
RG 400 or equivalent. I am under the gun to get the installation completed
so a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait
but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought
the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal
loss.
I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are
close to the RG 58.
Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to use to limit
the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the transponder to the antenna.
The GDL-82 is four feet from the transponder and two feet from the antenna.
(The GDL-82 is spliced into the transponder output cable on the way to the
antenna to pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded cable |
At 08:42 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>
>I want the military grade. My supplier of choice
>is Allied Wire and Cable - but I don=99t know
>which of their offerings to look at. When I want
>unshielded I go for 22759/16 but I don=99t know
>what the shielded equivalent is.
>
>Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists
>several different kinds with different insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE:
>http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables
>
>I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and
>RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make any difference? Or should I use something else?
>
>I just don=99t want raised eyebrows and a
>sucking-in of breath over beer at the aircraft
>wiring club bar if I say what I used.
>
It's nearly impossible to 'do it wrong' . . .
Keep in mind that over the last century of wiring
airplanes, wire insulation has evolved from cotton
covered rubber (with varnish paint) up though
nylon over PVC to finally evolve to Tefzel and
cousins. Every step-up in wire fabrication technology
has been eminently suitable for trickle-down into
older airframes . . . but there's nothing to
suggest that examples of older airframes have
become 'unsafe' due to their equally old
wiring. See https://goo.gl/iatVqJ
Use any shielded wire you can put your hands
on if it has enough strands and suitable gage.
Then I'd be pleased to buy you a beer . . .
and I promise not to blow suds all over you
when you tell me what you used.
You are 100x more likely to have a problem with
that wire due to poor installation than
choice of materials.
What kind of wire are you looking for and how
much? I think I've still got a big spool
of 3x22AWG Tefzel out in the shop. But a chunk of
Beldfoil over 3x22 PVC from your own junk box
is fine too.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna cable? |
>
>I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their
>diameters are close to the RG 58.
>
>Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to
>use to limit the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the
>transponder to the antenna. The GDL-82 is four feet from the
>transponder and two feet from the antenna. (The GDL-82 is spliced
>into the transponder output cable on the way to the antenna to
>pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.)
>
>I am inviting comments, suggestions and/or advice. Thanks, Earl
It's difficult to 'fake' RG-400 . . . any of
these offerings of cable and connectors will
be suited to your task.
https://goo.gl/jg2ocw
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna cable? |
I agree with Stein....for your cable lengths, RG58 will do just fine for
the short run. Yes, the RG400 is better, especially for the long term,
but whether the difference can be detected by a ramp test set or not...I
doubt it. The RG 400 has clear insulation over bronze/gold looking
interior and generally costs $3 and up per foot.
On 2/2/2018 9:42 AM, Earl Schroeder wrote:
>
> The recent discussions about shielded cable brought to mind a question.
>
> I am in the process of installing a Garmin GDL-82 in an experimental aircraft.
The GDL-82 was purchased from Pacific coast aviation and arrived without any
antenna cable since the installed length was unknown.
>
> The online instructions warned of a possible signal loss if standard RG 58 coax
was retained from the transponder output to the antenna suggesting changing
to RG 400 or equivalent. I am under the gun to get the installation completed
so a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping
wait but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also
thought the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower
signal loss.
>
> I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are
close to the RG 58.
>
> Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to use to limit
the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the transponder to the antenna.
The GDL-82 is four feet from the transponder and two feet from the antenna.
(The GDL-82 is spliced into the transponder output cable on the way to the
antenna to pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.)
>
> I am inviting comments, suggestions and/or advice. Thanks, Earl
>
>
>
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