---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/02/18: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:16 AM - Shielded cable (Alec Myers) 2. 06:34 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Alec Myers) 4. 07:07 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Charlie England) 5. 07:10 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Alec Myers) 6. 07:18 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Stein Bruch) 7. 08:48 AM - Antenna cable? (Earl Schroeder) 8. 09:07 AM - Re: Antenna cable? (GTH) 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Antenna cable? (Stein Bruch) 10. 10:29 AM - Re: Shielded cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 10:44 AM - Re: Antenna cable? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 12:18 PM - Re: Antenna cable? (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:10 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable Can anyone help: Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except shielded? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:37 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote: > >Can anyone help: > >What=99s the go-to equivalent milspec number to >22759/16 for avionics hookups, except shielded? 'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up for ETFE insulation, there's little value to be had for offering a less-than-military grade. Another procurement problem is price breaks for quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps find value in color coded wires, then you find yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths of multiple sizes and colors. From a sellers standpoint, it takes more labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . . the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured, cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk price offering. Been there, done that, still have spools of wire on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks business. Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir. There are offerings on eBay like this https://goo.gl/AmmFsV CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE (Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows which insulation is on hand so you can get the right one. Finally, a google search on 22759 is going to yield you a million+ hits . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:54 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable Bob I want the military grade. My supplier of choice is Allied Wire and Cable - but I dont know which of their offerings to look at. When I want unshielded I go for 22759/16 but I dont know what the shielded equivalent is. Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists several different kinds with different insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE: http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make any difference? Or should I use something else? I just dont want raised eyebrows and a sucking-in of breath over beer at the aircraft wiring club bar if I say what I used. On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote: > > Can anyone help: > > Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except shielded? 'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up for ETFE insulation, there's little value to be had for offering a less-than-military grade. Another procurement problem is price breaks for quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps find value in color coded wires, then you find yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths of multiple sizes and colors. From a sellers standpoint, it takes more labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . . the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured, cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk price offering. Been there, done that, still have spools of wire on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks business. Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir. There are offerings on eBay like this https://goo.gl/AmmFsV CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE (Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows which insulation is on hand so you can get the right one. Finally, a google search on 22759 is going to yield you a million+ hits . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:49 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable Here you go: https://www.google.com/search?ei=VH50Ws_PO4z2swWIp4aoCA&q=fep+vs+etfe&o q=FEP+vs+ETFE+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1.837.6597.0.14111.6.6.0.0.0.0.2 61.925.0j5j1.6.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.924...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i 7i5i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i30k1j35i39k1.0.lgKh6xCpZSk On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:42 AM, Alec Myers wrote: > > Bob > > I want the military grade. My supplier of choice is Allied Wire and Cable > - but I don=99t know which of their offerings to look at. When I wa nt > unshielded I go for 22759/16 but I don=99t know what the shielded e quivalent > is. > > Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists several different kinds with > different insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE: > http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables > > I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make > any difference? Or should I use something else? > > I just don=99t want raised eyebrows and a sucking-in of breath over beer at > the aircraft wiring club bar if I say what I used. > > > On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote: > > > > > Can anyone help: > > > > What=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22 759/16 for avionics > hookups, except shielded? > > 'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to > find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up > for ETFE insulation, there's little value to > be had for offering a less-than-military grade. > > Another procurement problem is price breaks for > quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to > wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred > feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps > find value in color coded wires, then you find > yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths > of multiple sizes and colors. > > From a sellers standpoint, it takes more > labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot > chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot > spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . . > the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured, > cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the > seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that > can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk > price offering. > > Been there, done that, still have spools of wire > on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off > to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks > business. > > Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir. > There are offerings on eBay like this > > https://goo.gl/AmmFsV > > > CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that > call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE > (Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows > which insulation is on hand so you can get > the right one. > > Finally, a google search on 22759 is going > to yield you a million+ hits . . . > > > Bob . . . > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:27 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable I read the descriptions. I just want to know what everyone else uses :-) On Feb 2, 2018, at 10:06 AM, Charlie England wrote: Here you go: https://www.google.com/search?ei=VH50Ws_PO4z2swWIp4aoCA&q=fep+vs+etfe&oq=FEP+vs+ETFE+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1.837.6597.0.14111.6.6.0.0.0.0.261.925.0j5j1.6.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.924...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i7i5i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i30k1j35i39k1.0.lgKh6xCpZSk On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:42 AM, Alec Myers wrote: Bob I want the military grade. My supplier of choice is Allied Wire and Cable - but I dont know which of their offerings to look at. When I want unshielded I go for 22759/16 but I dont know what the shielded equivalent is. Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists several different kinds with different insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE: http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make any difference? Or should I use something else? I just dont want raised eyebrows and a sucking-in of breath over beer at the aircraft wiring club bar if I say what I used. On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 07:14 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote: > > Can anyone help: > > Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except shielded? 'commercial' equivalents are going to be hard to find. if anyone goes to the effort to tool up for ETFE insulation, there's little value to be had for offering a less-than-military grade. Another procurement problem is price breaks for quantity. It doesn't take much total wire to wire up your airplane . . . perhaps a few hundred feet. But if you need multiple gages and perhaps find value in color coded wires, then you find yourself looking to procure lots of short lengths of multiple sizes and colors. From a sellers standpoint, it takes more labor to pick, pack, ship and sell a 10 foot chunk of 6AWG wire than it does for a 500' foot spool. The 500' spool is shipment ready . . . the short chunk has to be spooled of, measured, cut, packaged and perhaps marked . . . then the seller is 'stuck' with a 490' spool of wire that can no longer be sold as it's original, bulk price offering. Been there, done that, still have spools of wire on the shelf that I'm going to have to pass off to someone who wants to be in the short-chunks business. Our legacy short-chunks guys are B&C and SteinAir. There are offerings on eBay like this https://goo.gl/AmmFsV CAUTION: 22759 INCLUDES slash numbers that call out PTFE (Teflon) as opposed to ETFE (Tefzel). Make sure your eBay seller knows which insulation is on hand so you can get the right one. Finally, a google search on 22759 is going to yield you a million+ hits . . . Bob . . . =================================== - Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List =================================== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =================================== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:08 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable That IS the preferred wire for avionics hookups (single wires).....and the Shielded is 27500 TG or TE (difference being the thickness of the insulation on the inner conductors). "RC" wires are a not a recommended solution for a number of reasons.... Stick with what everyone uses and what the manufacturers recommend, don't try to re-invent the wheel here, you'll spend more time researching than it's worth for the hundreds of dollars you'll spend to wire up the entire plane. We go through millions of feet of this stuff per year, and there's a reason we stock what we do. Gimme a shout and we'll be happy to help you out. Cheers, Stein -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alec Myers Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 7:15 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable Can anyone help: Whats the go-to equivalent milspec number to 22759/16 for avionics hookups, except shielded? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:21 AM PST US From: Earl Schroeder Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable? The recent discussions about shielded cable brought to mind a question. I am in the process of installing a Garmin GDL-82 in an experimental aircraft. The GDL-82 was purchased from Pacific coast aviation and arrived without any antenna cable since the installed length was unknown. The online instructions warned of a possible signal loss if standard RG 58 coax was retained from the transponder output to the antenna suggesting changing to RG 400 or equivalent. I am under the gun to get the installation completed so a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal loss. I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are close to the RG 58. Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to use to limit the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the transponder to the antenna. The GDL-82 is four feet from the transponder and two feet from the antenna. (The GDL-82 is spliced into the transponder output cable on the way to the antenna to pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.) I am inviting comments, suggestions and/or advice. Thanks, Earl ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable? From: GTH Le 02/02/2018 17:42, Earl Schroeder a crit: > a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal loss. > > I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are close to the RG 58. > > Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 Hello Earl Some info on the RG 400 coaxial http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=rg400-coaxial-cable Double braided shield, PTFE dielectric, etc. And yes the diameter is close to that of the old RG 58. B&C, Aircraft Spruce or any aviation supplier carry them. FWIW, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:49 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable? The 400 does not refer to the diameter (it's nearly identical to the 58)...and beware of some of the Ebay stuff. There is much out there from recent hurricane sales that has been under water and can be corroded. Not all of it of course, but SOME. Anyway, to be sure if it's correct, just buy it from an aviation/avionics shop and you'll be guaranteed it's good stuff that isn't old surplus or something. Now, as an aside - depending on the transponder you have (and how it's performing before the upgrade/addition of the 82), the 58 you currently have might work just fine, at least temporarily.... Cheers, Stein -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Earl Schroeder Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 10:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable? --> The recent discussions about shielded cable brought to mind a question. I am in the process of installing a Garmin GDL-82 in an experimental aircraft. The GDL-82 was purchased from Pacific coast aviation and arrived without any antenna cable since the installed length was unknown. The online instructions warned of a possible signal loss if standard RG 58 coax was retained from the transponder output to the antenna suggesting changing to RG 400 or equivalent. I am under the gun to get the installation completed so a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal loss. I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are close to the RG 58. Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to use to limit the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the transponder to the antenna. The GDL-82 is four feet from the transponder and two feet from the antenna. (The GDL-82 is spliced into the transponder output cable on the way to the antenna to pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:05 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded cable At 08:42 AM 2/2/2018, you wrote: > >Bob > >I want the military grade. My supplier of choice >is Allied Wire and Cable - but I don=99t know >which of their offerings to look at. When I want >unshielded I go for 22759/16 but I don=99t know >what the shielded equivalent is. > >Aircraft spruce sells M27500, but AWC lists >several different kinds with different insulations, PTFE, FEP, ETFE: >http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=m27500-cables > >I think the choice is between RC-09 (FEP) and >RC-06 (PTFE). Does it make any difference? Or should I use something else? > >I just don=99t want raised eyebrows and a >sucking-in of breath over beer at the aircraft >wiring club bar if I say what I used. > It's nearly impossible to 'do it wrong' . . . Keep in mind that over the last century of wiring airplanes, wire insulation has evolved from cotton covered rubber (with varnish paint) up though nylon over PVC to finally evolve to Tefzel and cousins. Every step-up in wire fabrication technology has been eminently suitable for trickle-down into older airframes . . . but there's nothing to suggest that examples of older airframes have become 'unsafe' due to their equally old wiring. See https://goo.gl/iatVqJ Use any shielded wire you can put your hands on if it has enough strands and suitable gage. Then I'd be pleased to buy you a beer . . . and I promise not to blow suds all over you when you tell me what you used. You are 100x more likely to have a problem with that wire due to poor installation than choice of materials. What kind of wire are you looking for and how much? I think I've still got a big spool of 3x22AWG Tefzel out in the shop. But a chunk of Beldfoil over 3x22 PVC from your own junk box is fine too. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable? > >I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their >diameters are close to the RG 58. > >Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to >use to limit the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the >transponder to the antenna. The GDL-82 is four feet from the >transponder and two feet from the antenna. (The GDL-82 is spliced >into the transponder output cable on the way to the antenna to >pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.) > >I am inviting comments, suggestions and/or advice. Thanks, Earl It's difficult to 'fake' RG-400 . . . any of these offerings of cable and connectors will be suited to your task. https://goo.gl/jg2ocw Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna cable? From: Kelly McMullen I agree with Stein....for your cable lengths, RG58 will do just fine for the short run. Yes, the RG400 is better, especially for the long term, but whether the difference can be detected by a ramp test set or not...I doubt it. The RG 400 has clear insulation over bronze/gold looking interior and generally costs $3 and up per foot. On 2/2/2018 9:42 AM, Earl Schroeder wrote: > > The recent discussions about shielded cable brought to mind a question. > > I am in the process of installing a Garmin GDL-82 in an experimental aircraft. The GDL-82 was purchased from Pacific coast aviation and arrived without any antenna cable since the installed length was unknown. > > The online instructions warned of a possible signal loss if standard RG 58 coax was retained from the transponder output to the antenna suggesting changing to RG 400 or equivalent. I am under the gun to get the installation completed so a trip to the local Hutch & Son was an attempt to eliminate the shipping wait but they did not stock any 400 and did not have an equivalent. They also thought the 400 was an indication of the outside diameter as well as a lower signal loss. > > I have found some RG-400 cable on both eBay and Amazon but their diameters are close to the RG 58. > > Now the question is how do I determine the true RG 400 and what to use to limit the signal loss is a cable run of six feet from the transponder to the antenna. The GDL-82 is four feet from the transponder and two feet from the antenna. (The GDL-82 is spliced into the transponder output cable on the way to the antenna to pickup the code, standby, and altitude etc.) > > I am inviting comments, suggestions and/or advice. Thanks, Earl > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.