Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:22 AM - Re: Warm Toggle Switch (Charles Brame)
2. 08:17 AM - Re: Starter SURGES ()
3. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Warm Toggle Switch (FLYaDIVE)
4. 10:54 AM - Re: Warm Toggle Switch (Eric Page)
5. 01:15 PM - Re: Warm Toggle Switch (user9253)
6. 02:21 PM - Re: insulation support for crimps (Alec Myers)
7. 02:43 PM - Re: insulation support for crimps (Charlie England)
8. 02:51 PM - Re: insulation support for crimps (Alec Myers)
9. 09:03 PM - Re: insulation support for crimps (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Time: 08:45:12 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
<mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Toggle Switch
At 09:21 AM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
> I went through several warm, hot, and/or shorted
> switches that operated my strobes. Tried several
> brands of switches all with the same results.
> Finally trouble shot the whole system and found
> a bad connector crimp on the positive wire that
> connected at the strobe power pack. Repaired
> same, and haven=99t had a switch problem since.
What were your observations for condition of
the materials at the failure . . . and do
you recall whether the failure was related
to materials, installation technique or perhaps
both?
You mentioned 'shorted' switch . . . were you the
builder who was experiencing fuse popping when the
strobes were turned OFF?
Bob . . .
=94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94
=94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94
=94=94-
Bob, et., al.,
I did have a popped fuse or so, but I don=99t think they were
related to the shorted switch. The shorted switch toggle itself was
electrified when either on or off. On various switches, I found loose
connectors, corroded and failed contacts, and in one case, the plastic
switch case was partially melted from the heat. Failures were probably
related to both materials and installation technique. I=99m not
sure all the problems were related to the bad strobe pack connection,
but fixing that seems to have solved the problems.
Charlie
RV-6A, N11CB
San Antonio
Message 2
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Ah, Lucas, "The Prince of Darkness"... I had a '63 Austin Healy Sprite
that was graced with his presence... Converted to 12v Negative ground
"US standard" stuff when the engine was replaced... Cost some $$, but
less than the ongoing Lucas part-of-the-week club membership -
especially at "import prices"...
Jim Parker
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter SURGES
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Charlie, You're right, the starter was engaged and running but the
minute the engine revved over starting rpm the engine was driving it,
too. It's probably no surprise that the car had English electrics, a mix
of Smith and Lucas. Me experience with it was too many ghost problems.
The horn began to blow one night right as I was on my way out for a
date. Disconnected the horn, went on the date and tried to get the horn
working the next day. Reconnected it and nothing wrong. Never failed
again. Then there was the night the passing lights started flashing on
their own. Pulled the whole steering wheel off, went through it,
couldn't find anything, put it back together, worked fine. Never failed
again. As much as I loved the car I began to think of it as Mussolini's
revenge. I didn't know about Lucas then.....
Rick
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Good Find Charlie;
Sure sounds like your switch did one of two things or maybe even BOTH:
1 - WELDED the contacts closed and/or,
2 - Mechanically Failed.
The mechanical failure could also have been due to the contacts being
Welded and when you flip the switch, the weld being stronger than the pivot
points of the switch... Ergo, the switch broke!
Question: Is the switch WHITE in color? Except for the burnt areas of
course?
Poor contact(s) ANYWHERE in the circuit increase current draw. The weak
point being the switch.
ARKENSPARK - - ARKENFARK
Hope my original post was helpful.
Barry
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Charles Brame <ChasB@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> Time: 08:45:12 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Warm Toggle Switch
>
> At 09:21 AM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>
> I went through several warm, hot, and/or shorted
> switches that operated my strobes. Tried several
> brands of switches all with the same results.
> Finally trouble shot the whole system and found
> a bad connector crimp on the positive wire that
> connected at the strobe power pack. Repaired
> same, and haven=99t had a switch problem since.
>
>
> What were your observations for condition of
> the materials at the failure . . . and do
> you recall whether the failure was related
> to materials, installation technique or perhaps
> both?
>
> You mentioned 'shorted' switch . . . were you the
> builder who was experiencing fuse popping when the
> strobes were turned OFF?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> =94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94
=94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94
=94=94-
>
> Bob, et., al.,
>
> I did have a popped fuse or so, but I don=99t think they were relat
ed to
> the shorted switch. The shorted switch toggle itself was electrified when
> either on or off. On various switches, I found loose connectors, corroded
> and failed contacts, and in one case, the plastic switch case was partial
ly
> melted from the heat. Failures were probably related to both materials an
d
> installation technique. I=99m not sure all the problems were relate
d to the
> bad strobe pack connection, but fixing that seems to have solved the
> problems.
>
> Charlie
> RV-6A, N11CB
> San Antonio
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
BARRY CHECK 6 wrote:
> Poor contact(s) ANYWHERE in the circuit increase current draw.
Generally speaking, this is incorrect. A poor contact increases resistance. Increased
resistance causes a decrease in current through a circuit.
The exception is an appliance using an internal switching power supply, which functions
as a constant power device, drawing whatever combination of voltage and
current it can manage to maintain the required output. This is most likely
to be seen powering modern avionics and high power LEDs (i.e. landing lights
and strobe drivers).
For everything else lighting circuits, motors, pumps, heaters and anything with
linear voltage regulation the resistance/voltage/current relationship must
follow Ohms Law.
Eric
P.S. On Internet forums, the use of ALL CAPS is considered equivalent to shouting.
If youre posting via email rather than the web interface where bold, italics
and underline are available, consider sparing use of *asterisks* before and
after words you wish to emphasize.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479127#479127
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
I agree with Eric Page. Ohm's law rules. And generally speaking, a switch should
not get warm. If it does, it is either overloaded, defective (high internal
resistance), or its external connections have high resistance.
It is OK to use AC rated switches in airplanes. B&C Aero sells AC rated switches.
Hundreds of them have been installed in aircraft. Even if the DC rating
is not marked on the side of the switch, every switch can carry a certain amount
of DC current. Usually switch manufactures will test the DC ampacity of
their products and the results are published on their datasheets. When a switch
is already closed, it doesn't matter if the current is AC or DC. The issue
is what happens when the switch first starts to open (or bounces open while
closing). This is where voltage is important. When the contacts of the switch
first separate just a hair, an arc jumps across the opening. Since AC current
periodically drops to zero, the arc is quickly extinguished. But DC keeps
arcing as the contacts spread apart. That arcing damages the contacts. In order
to minimize arcing, the DC voltage needs to be reduced. Yes, switches need
to be derated when conducting DC. But one way to look at it is that the voltage
is derated, not the current. If two identical switches carry equal current,
one in a DC circuit and one in an AC circuit, the life expectancy of the switches
is equal provided that the DC circuit operates at a reduced voltage.
If the AC voltage is 115, a DC voltage of about 28 will result in equal switch
life. Most of home-built airplanes have 12 volt electrical systems. At that
voltage, a switch can carry more than its 115 VAC current rating, provided that
it is snap acting (opens quickly).
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479128#479128
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
HI Bob
>> M25036/T7928
What are these?
A
On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
> Its not something youve specifically recommended: google for krimptite and youll
see some examples of to what I was referring.
>
Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
spectrum of Waldom termnials
https://goo.gl/XKMA71
The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
rolled, non-welded wire grips.
Next step up through the product line adds
insulation grips to the non-welded
terminals.
Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
specifically designed for solid wire and wire
grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.
Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
offering to higher performance vehicular
applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928
The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.
There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
are not expected to perform under vibration.
One does not save much money with the use of terminals
outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.
Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
applications.
<973ee6.jpg>
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
Google is (sometimes) our friend:
https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036&oq=M25036&aqs=chrome..69i57&so
urceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_c
ampaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_c
ampaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
> HI Bob
>
> >> M25036/T7928
>
> What are these?
>
> A
>
> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
> > It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not something you=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve
specifically recommended: google for
> =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93krimptite=C3=A2=82=AC and you=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2ll see some examples of to what I was referring.
> >
>
> Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
> spectrum of Waldom termnials
>
> https://goo.gl/XKMA71
>
> The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
> of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
> rolled, non-welded wire grips.
>
> Next step up through the product line adds
> insulation grips to the non-welded
> terminals.
>
> Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
> specifically designed for solid wire and wire
> grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
> wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.
>
> Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
> offering to higher performance vehicular
> applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
> to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
> designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928
>
> The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.
>
> There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
> ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
> ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
> expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
> temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
> insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
> are not expected to perform under vibration.
>
> One does not save much money with the use of terminals
> outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
> Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.
>
> Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
> with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
> applications.
>
> <973ee6.jpg>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
Ah theyre products? It sounded like they were a specification.
On Apr 5, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
Google is (sometimes) our friend:
https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036&oq=M25036&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Virus-free. www.avast.com
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
HI Bob
>> M25036/T7928
What are these?
A
On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
> Its not something youve specifically recommended: google for krimptite and youll
see some examples of to what I was referring.
>
Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
spectrum of Waldom termnials
https://goo.gl/XKMA71
The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
rolled, non-welded wire grips.
Next step up through the product line adds
insulation grips to the non-welded
terminals.
Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
specifically designed for solid wire and wire
grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.
Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
offering to higher performance vehicular
applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928
The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.
There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
are not expected to perform under vibration.
One does not save much money with the use of terminals
outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.
Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
applications.
<973ee6.jpg>
Bob . . .
===================================
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
Alec:
Here is a link to what they are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036%2FT7928&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS749US749
&oq=M25036%2FT7928&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.1941j0j8&sourceid=chrome&i
e=UTF-8
Barry
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
> HI Bob
>
> >> M25036/T7928
>
> What are these?
>
> A
>
> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
> > It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not something you=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve
specifically recommended: google for
> =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93krimptite=C3=A2=82=AC and you=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2ll see some examples of to what I was referring.
> >
>
> Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
> spectrum of Waldom termnials
>
> https://goo.gl/XKMA71
>
> The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
> of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
> rolled, non-welded wire grips.
>
> Next step up through the product line adds
> insulation grips to the non-welded
> terminals.
>
> Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
> specifically designed for solid wire and wire
> grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
> wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.
>
> Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
> offering to higher performance vehicular
> applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
> to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
> designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928
>
> The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.
>
> There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
> ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
> ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
> expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
> temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
> insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
> are not expected to perform under vibration.
>
> One does not save much money with the use of terminals
> outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
> Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.
>
> Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
> with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
> applications.
>
> <973ee6.jpg>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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