Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:29 AM - Re: Degaussing (tshort)
2. 03:32 AM - Re: FYI (tshort)
3. 05:26 AM - Magnetometer (Bobby Paulk)
4. 06:22 AM - Re: Magnetometer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:36 AM - Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan)
6. 09:54 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (Charlie England)
7. 10:10 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan)
8. 12:15 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (user9253)
9. 12:30 PM - Re: Magnetometer (Alec Myers)
10. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Charlie England)
11. 05:12 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (user9253)
12. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan)
13. 06:16 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (user9253)
14. 06:47 PM - Re: Magnetometer (FLYaDIVE)
15. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Degaussing (FLYaDIVE)
16. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan)
17. 09:50 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Charlie England)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks for all the replies.
I am virtually certain it is the cables:
- the test passes on all other parameters (turning off / on all the equipment in
the tailcone, etc etc). The test shows significant error as soon as I move
the rudder at all.
- I downloaded an app for the phone (per the suggestion above), and it does detect
magnetic fields near the cables.
Since we had already reassembled things and had the bag wall back in, I used the
solder iron technique on the cable ends and cable outside of the tailcone.
Measurements before and after with the phone app did show less detected.
Finally, I calibrated the magnetometer as per Garmin's instructions. With ground
testing and test flying yesterday, I saw zero movement of the indicator with
any rudder input.
Since I am flying VFR only, I am going to continue to monitor / test fly, and next
time I have occasion to get back in the tailcone I may make some additional
efforts at degaussing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479589#479589
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Funny ... I clicked on the link, and it happens to be in the town where I grew
up! Interesting coincidence, we just installed a new furnace / air handler in
a rental property in Lebanon, and the installer got the equipment there. I could
not believe how cheap it was, and it works great. Another thumbs up for
them.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479590#479590
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bob,
I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on the bottom
skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I could pull the
plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the rudder from stop
to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. Reverse and the compass
would swing the opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or
not. We spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We used a degauss coil
for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own version of a coil.
As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any ) impact on the amplitude
of the compass error. I have swung the compass several times since relocating
the magnetometer and it is very accurate.
Bobby
Zodiac 601 295 hrs.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Magnetometer |
At 07:23 AM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and
>on the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I
>moved it I could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting
>still move the rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees
>swing on the compass. Reverse and the compass would swing the
>opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or not. We
>spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We used a degauss
>coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own version
>of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any
>) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the
>compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it is
>very accurate.
Great news and excellent data. Thank you. Your
observations confirm the latest hypothesis for
dimple distortion of earth flux by the cables
as opposed to magnetized cables.
Bob . . .
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the
main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible
link in that same wire?
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the
> main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible
> link in that same wire?
>
The breaker the reset-able option (nuisance trips) for the OV protection
circuit. It is remote from the bus ('unlimited' current source) to allow
access by the pilot. Without the fusible link, the 18 ga wire would be
unprotected between the bus and the breaker.
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Okay, that makes sense. But it spurs other questions, like why is the 18
gauge there at all, when the rest of the run is 20 gauge?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the
>> main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible
>> link in that same wire?
>>
> The breaker the reset-able option (nuisance trips) for the OV protection
> circuit. It is remote from the bus ('unlimited' current source) to allow
> access by the pilot. Without the fusible link, the 18 ga wire would be
> unprotected between the bus and the breaker.
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Good catch. I think there is a typo in the drawing. The wire size should be 18
AWG between the 5 amp circuit breaker and the master switch. That wire will
carry over-voltage module current when the module shorts to ground. 20 AWG is
OK between the master switch and the voltage regulator.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479607#479607
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Magnetometer |
Your dimple distortion is officially called a =9Csoft iron=9D er
ror.
On Apr 27, 2018, at 09:21, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectri
c.com> wrote:
At 07:23 AM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on th
e bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I could
pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the rudder f
rom stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. Reverse and t
he compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was
running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We use
d a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own vers
ion of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any ) im
pact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the compass several
times since relocating the magnetometer and it is very accurate.
Great news and excellent data. Thank you. Your
observations confirm the latest hypothesis for
dimple distortion of earth flux by the cables
as opposed to magnetized cables.
Bob . . .
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
On 4/27/2018 2:15 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Good catch. I think there is a typo in the drawing. The wire size should be
18 AWG between the 5 amp circuit breaker and the master switch. That wire will
carry over-voltage module current when the module shorts to ground. 20 AWG
is OK between the master switch and the voltage regulator.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
Well...the 20 awg is protected by the CB. Current will likely never get
above 3 amps in normal operation, and in an OV event, the overcurrent
duration from the crowbar firing would be measured in milliseconds. I
wouldn't be worried about a 5A CB protecting a 20 awg wire; I think I
probably have some short runs of 20 that are fused with 5A.
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
I was wrong in my post above. The fuselink protects the 18 AWG from shorting out.
The circuit breaker protects everything down steam from there.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479613#479613
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
So, is the reason for the 18AWG section perhaps to set the size of the
fuselink at 22AWG?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:11 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was wrong in my post above. The fuselink protects the 18 AWG from
> shorting out. The circuit breaker protects everything down steam from
> there.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479613#479613
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the protected conductor.
So I agree with you.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Magnetometer |
=8BBobby:
When you degaussed the rudder cable... Did you degaussed the rudder Horn?
The cables even being S/S will have some ferrous in them. However the HORN
is all ferrous steel and so is the vertical rudder bracket.
BUT! I would get the magnetometer off the belly and away from the cables
and I'm guessing you have your Altitude Hold A/P back there also. It
probably has a large PM motor.
Are you installing a Garmin G5 system?
Barry
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Bobby Paulk <bobbypaulk@comcast.net> wrote
:
> Bob,
>
> I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on
> the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I
> could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the
> rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass.
> Reverse and the compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter i
f
> the engine was running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss t
he
> cables. We used a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even
> wrapped our own version of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did
> had much ( if any ) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have
> swung the compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it
is
> very accurate.
>
>
> Bobby
>
> Zodiac 601 295 hrs.
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Shorty:
A COMPASS will literary Point at the problem.
And, if the magnesium is very high you should be able to do it from the
outside of the plane. The aluminum will offer very little shielding.
Barry
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:28 AM, tshort <tmshort@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies.
>
> I am virtually certain it is the cables:
>
> - the test passes on all other parameters (turning off / on all the
> equipment in the tailcone, etc etc). The test shows significant error as
> soon as I move the rudder at all.
>
> - I downloaded an app for the phone (per the suggestion above), and it
> does detect magnetic fields near the cables.
>
> Since we had already reassembled things and had the bag wall back in, I
> used the solder iron technique on the cable ends and cable outside of the
> tailcone. Measurements before and after with the phone app did show less
> detected.
>
> Finally, I calibrated the magnetometer as per Garmin's instructions. With
> ground testing and test flying yesterday, I saw zero movement of the
> indicator with any rudder input.
>
> Since I am flying VFR only, I am going to continue to monitor / test fly,
> and next time I have occasion to get back in the tailcone I may make some
> additional efforts at degaussing.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479589#479589
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
And what would be the argument against all 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:16 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the
> protected conductor. So I agree with you.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
For me, it would be availability (I don't keep 24 awg on hand) and
physical strength of the link. 22 is pretty tough; 24 is marginal.
No doubt it will work, though, if you want to use it.
Charlie
On 4/27/2018 9:48 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> And what would be the argument against all 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink?
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:16 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com
> <mailto:fransew@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <fransew@gmail.com <mailto:fransew@gmail.com>>
>
> The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the
> protected conductor. So I agree with you.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616>
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|