---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/27/18: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:29 AM - Re: Degaussing (tshort) 2. 03:32 AM - Re: FYI (tshort) 3. 05:26 AM - Magnetometer (Bobby Paulk) 4. 06:22 AM - Re: Magnetometer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:36 AM - Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan) 6. 09:54 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (Charlie England) 7. 10:10 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan) 8. 12:15 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (user9253) 9. 12:30 PM - Re: Magnetometer (Alec Myers) 10. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Charlie England) 11. 05:12 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (user9253) 12. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan) 13. 06:16 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Question (user9253) 14. 06:47 PM - Re: Magnetometer (FLYaDIVE) 15. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Degaussing (FLYaDIVE) 16. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan) 17. 09:50 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing From: "tshort" Thanks for all the replies. I am virtually certain it is the cables: - the test passes on all other parameters (turning off / on all the equipment in the tailcone, etc etc). The test shows significant error as soon as I move the rudder at all. - I downloaded an app for the phone (per the suggestion above), and it does detect magnetic fields near the cables. Since we had already reassembled things and had the bag wall back in, I used the solder iron technique on the cable ends and cable outside of the tailcone. Measurements before and after with the phone app did show less detected. Finally, I calibrated the magnetometer as per Garmin's instructions. With ground testing and test flying yesterday, I saw zero movement of the indicator with any rudder input. Since I am flying VFR only, I am going to continue to monitor / test fly, and next time I have occasion to get back in the tailcone I may make some additional efforts at degaussing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479589#479589 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:48 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: FYI From: "tshort" Funny ... I clicked on the link, and it happens to be in the town where I grew up! Interesting coincidence, we just installed a new furnace / air handler in a rental property in Lebanon, and the installer got the equipment there. I could not believe how cheap it was, and it works great. Another thumbs up for them. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479590#479590 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:39 AM PST US From: Bobby Paulk Subject: AeroElectric-List: Magnetometer Bob, I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. Reverse and the compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We used a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own version of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any ) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it is very accurate. Bobby Zodiac 601 295 hrs. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magnetometer At 07:23 AM 4/27/2018, you wrote: >Bob, > >I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and >on the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I >moved it I could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting >still move the rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees >swing on the compass. Reverse and the compass would swing the >opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or not. We >spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We used a degauss >coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own version >of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any >) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the >compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it is >very accurate. Great news and excellent data. Thank you. Your observations confirm the latest hypothesis for dimple distortion of earth flux by the cables as opposed to magnetized cables. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:22 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Question On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible link in that same wire? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:38 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Question On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the > main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible > link in that same wire? > The breaker the reset-able option (nuisance trips) for the OV protection circuit. It is remote from the bus ('unlimited' current source) to allow access by the pilot. Without the fusible link, the 18 ga wire would be unprotected between the bus and the breaker. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:04 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Question Okay, that makes sense. But it spurs other questions, like why is the 18 gauge there at all, when the rest of the run is 20 gauge? On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Charlie England wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > >> On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the >> main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible >> link in that same wire? >> > The breaker the reset-able option (nuisance trips) for the OV protection > circuit. It is remote from the bus ('unlimited' current source) to allow > access by the pilot. Without the fusible link, the 18 ga wire would be > unprotected between the bus and the breaker. > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:40 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question From: "user9253" Good catch. I think there is a typo in the drawing. The wire size should be 18 AWG between the 5 amp circuit breaker and the master switch. That wire will carry over-voltage module current when the module shorts to ground. 20 AWG is OK between the master switch and the voltage regulator. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479607#479607 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:07 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magnetometer Your dimple distortion is officially called a =9Csoft iron=9D er ror. On Apr 27, 2018, at 09:21, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 07:23 AM 4/27/2018, you wrote: > Bob, > > I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on th e bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the rudder f rom stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. Reverse and t he compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We use d a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own vers ion of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any ) im pact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it is very accurate. Great news and excellent data. Thank you. Your observations confirm the latest hypothesis for dimple distortion of earth flux by the cables as opposed to magnetized cables. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question From: Charlie England On 4/27/2018 2:15 PM, user9253 wrote: > > Good catch. I think there is a typo in the drawing. The wire size should be 18 AWG between the 5 amp circuit breaker and the master switch. That wire will carry over-voltage module current when the module shorts to ground. 20 AWG is OK between the master switch and the voltage regulator. > > -------- > Joe Gores Well...the 20 awg is protected by the CB. Current will likely never get above 3 amps in normal operation, and in an OV event, the overcurrent duration from the crowbar firing would be measured in milliseconds. I wouldn't be worried about a 5A CB protecting a 20 awg wire; I think I probably have some short runs of 20 that are fused with 5A. Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:01 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question From: "user9253" I was wrong in my post above. The fuselink protects the 18 AWG from shorting out. The circuit breaker protects everything down steam from there. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479613#479613 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:03 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question So, is the reason for the 18AWG section perhaps to set the size of the fuselink at 22AWG? On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:11 PM, user9253 wrote: > > I was wrong in my post above. The fuselink protects the 18 AWG from > shorting out. The circuit breaker protects everything down steam from > there. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479613#479613 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:41 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question From: "user9253" The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the protected conductor. So I agree with you. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:14 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magnetometer =8BBobby: When you degaussed the rudder cable... Did you degaussed the rudder Horn? The cables even being S/S will have some ferrous in them. However the HORN is all ferrous steel and so is the vertical rudder bracket. BUT! I would get the magnetometer off the belly and away from the cables and I'm guessing you have your Altitude Hold A/P back there also. It probably has a large PM motor. Are you installing a Garmin G5 system? Barry On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Bobby Paulk wrote : > Bob, > > I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on > the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I > could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the > rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. > Reverse and the compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter i f > the engine was running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss t he > cables. We used a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even > wrapped our own version of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did > had much ( if any ) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have > swung the compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it is > very accurate. > > > Bobby > > Zodiac 601 295 hrs. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:42 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing Shorty: A COMPASS will literary Point at the problem. And, if the magnesium is very high you should be able to do it from the outside of the plane. The aluminum will offer very little shielding. Barry On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:28 AM, tshort wrote: > > Thanks for all the replies. > > I am virtually certain it is the cables: > > - the test passes on all other parameters (turning off / on all the > equipment in the tailcone, etc etc). The test shows significant error as > soon as I move the rudder at all. > > - I downloaded an app for the phone (per the suggestion above), and it > does detect magnetic fields near the cables. > > Since we had already reassembled things and had the bag wall back in, I > used the solder iron technique on the cable ends and cable outside of the > tailcone. Measurements before and after with the phone app did show less > detected. > > Finally, I calibrated the magnetometer as per Garmin's instructions. With > ground testing and test flying yesterday, I saw zero movement of the > indicator with any rudder input. > > Since I am flying VFR only, I am going to continue to monitor / test fly, > and next time I have occasion to get back in the tailcone I may make some > additional efforts at degaussing. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479589#479589 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:34 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question And what would be the argument against all 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink? On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:16 PM, user9253 wrote: > > The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the > protected conductor. So I agree with you. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-13/8 Question From: Charlie England For me, it would be availability (I don't keep 24 awg on hand) and physical strength of the link. 22 is pretty tough; 24 is marginal. No doubt it will work, though, if you want to use it. Charlie On 4/27/2018 9:48 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > And what would be the argument against all 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink? > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:16 PM, user9253 > wrote: > > > > > The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the > protected conductor. So I agree with you. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616 > > > > =================================== > - > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.