---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/29/18: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:49 AM - AW: PVC vs Nylon Connectors (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hans_J=F6rg_Frei?=) 2. 04:56 AM - connector suggestion sought (Alec Myers) 3. 06:34 AM - Re: connector suggestion sought (Kent or Jackie Ashton) 4. 06:55 AM - Re: connector suggestion sought (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:56 AM - Re: AW: PVC vs Nylon Connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:11 AM - Re: connector suggestion sought (Alec Myers) 7. 08:07 AM - Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) (Ken Ryan) 8. 08:42 AM - Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) (Charlie England) 9. 08:51 AM - Re: connector suggestion sought (John Tipton) 10. 09:45 AM - Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) (Ken Ryan) 11. 10:39 AM - Re: connector suggestion sought (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 11:07 AM - Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) (Alec Myers) 13. 11:09 AM - Re: connector suggestion sought (Alec Myers) 14. 11:45 AM - Re: AW: PVC vs Nylon Connectors (=?utf-8?B?SGFucyBKw7ZyZyBGcmVp?=) 15. 11:50 AM - Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) (Kent or Jackie Ashton) 16. 02:24 PM - Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:28 AM PST US From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hans_J=F6rg_Frei?= Subject: AW: AeroElectric-List: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Hallo Robert I get every day about 10-20 e-mails from the aeroelectric list and I dont w ant that. how can I remove my e-mail address from this list? Best regards Hansj=F6rg ________________________________ Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com im Auftrag von Robert L. Nuckolls, III Gesendet: Sonntag, 29. April 2018 06:15 An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: PVC vs Nylon Connectors At 08:05 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote: Barry, A randomly selected list for your perusal: http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf MIL SPECIFICATION HOOK UP WIRE www.nationalwire.com mil specification hook up wire table of contents type description temp. ran ge voltage page mil-dtl-16878/1 32-14 awg t.p.c. pvc insulated -54c to +105 c 600v 1-1 On the subject of Very Caustic Fumes: Close yourself up in a closet & burn some Tefzel insulation. Report back (if able). [Emacs!] Yup, that's the stuff! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:34 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought Someone on the list may have the right answer to this... my instrument panels have a plastic overlay with built in electrostatic instrument lighting. Each overlay has two power wires for the lights, that pass through small holes in the aluminum instrument panel. Im looking for a suggestion for a connector I can use for the power wires that can be connected and disconnected on the outside of the aluminum panel (behind the overlay) then fed through the small hole in the panel so the overlay sits flush. A two pin molex .062 connector is slightly too big. Any thoughts? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:59 AM PST US From: Kent or Jackie Ashton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover with a bit of shrink wrap. https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-Contact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0elAMBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE -Kent > On Apr 29, 2018, at 7:54 AM, Alec Myers wrote: > > > Someone on the list may have the right answer to this... > > my instrument panels have a plastic overlay with built in electrostatic instrument lighting. Each overlay has two power wires for the lights, that pass through small holes in the aluminum instrument panel. > > Im looking for a suggestion for a connector I can use for the power wires that can be connected and disconnected on the outside of the aluminum panel (behind the overlay) then fed through the small hole in the panel so the overlay sits flush. A two pin molex .062 connector is slightly too big. > > Any thoughts? > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought At 08:33 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: > > >Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover >with a bit of shrink wrap. >https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-Contact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0elAMBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE >-Kent Agreed . . . Emacs! How many pins do you need? I'll include them in your order. Got some small i.d. shrink to throw in too. Do you have a d-sub crimp tool? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: PVC vs Nylon Connectors At 03:47 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: >Hallo Robert > >I get every day about 10-20 e-mails from the >aeroelectric list and I dont want that. > >how can I remove my e-mail address from this list? > >Best regards > >Hansj=F6rg > Go to Matronics.com/subscribe and tell the system what lists you wish to keep and which to discontinue. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:34 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought I have lots of pins, and the tooling, and lots of heat shrink. But I don =99t think my avionics person will sign off on it. He=99s quite conser vative. Can I tell him it passes AC 43.13? On Apr 29, 2018, at 09:54, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 08:33 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: net.net> > > Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover with a bi t of shrink wrap. > https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-C ontact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0elA MBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE > -Kent Agreed . . . <2cbd7af4.jpg> How many pins do you need? I'll include them in your order. Got some small i.d. shrink to throw in too. Do you have a d-sub crimp tool? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:14 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Evolution of Wire (Correction) Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft Spruce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased from Stein Air)? On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire > was export controlled so we were leaning toward > Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license > and Teflon became the insulation of choice. > > > Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon > but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings > but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto > the strands at such high temperatures that > you had to have silver plated strands. > Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow > under the pressure a too tight a cable tie. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:46 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Evolution of Wire (Correction) Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory serves, many months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec wire & in the process, found various numbers that all were Tefzel insulation, but some had thicker insulation (larger overall diameter) than others of the same gauge. I wish I could quote the numbers, but I failed to document what I found. Charlie On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft > Spruce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased > from Stein Air)? > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire >> was export controlled so we were leaning toward >> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license >> and Teflon became the insulation of choice. >> >> >> >> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon >> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings >> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto >> the strands at such high temperatures that >> you had to have silver plated strands. >> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow >> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought From: John Tipton So is are any similar (eg: Molex) connectors just as good --- John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- > On 29 Apr 2018, at 2:54 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 08:33 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: vnet.net> >> >> Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover with a b it of shrink wrap. >> https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature- Contact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0el AMBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE >> -Kent > > Agreed . . . > > <2cbd7af4.jpg> > > How many pins do you need? I'll include them in your order. > Got some small i.d. shrink to throw in too. Do you > have a d-sub crimp tool? > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:10 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Evolution of Wire (Correction) M22759/16 -- some I have bought (white) is very stiff while other (colors) is noticeably more flexible. On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 7:41 AM, Charlie England wrote: > Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory serves, > many months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec wire & in the > process, found various numbers that all were Tefzel insulation, but some > had thicker insulation (larger overall diameter) than others of the same > gauge. I wish I could quote the numbers, but I failed to document what I > found. > > Charlie > > On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > >> Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft >> Spruce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased >> from Stein Air)? >> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire >>> was export controlled so we were leaning toward >>> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license >>> and Teflon became the insulation of choice. >>> >>> >>> >>> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon >>> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings >>> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto >>> the strands at such high temperatures that >>> you had to have silver plated strands. >>> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow >>> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie. >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought At 09:10 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: >I have lots of pins, and the tooling, and lots >of heat shrink. But I don=99t think my avionics >person will sign off on it. He=99s quite conservative. > >Can I tell him it passes AC 43.13? I don't think AC43.13 would prohibit it but it's certainly unique with respect to legacy techniques. But if you'd asked some FAA master of the rule books if we could figure out a way to run dozens of amps through arrays of 20AWG d-sub pine, you would most certainly have been discouraged from attempting it. Yet this technique flew on a military supersonic target and on numerous power distribution boxes in the Hawker 4000. Give it a try. If push comes to shove, you can go to knife splices under heat-shrink or even solder-sleeves. These wires are seldom opened for service . . . there's probably enough slack to cut out and replace several solder sleeves . . . by that time you'll probably be more than ready to sell the airplane. The knife splice is attractive from the perspective of wire lost during each remove replace operation. Cutting the single terminal off the EL panel power wire only deprives you of 3/16" or so of wire. Cutting out a solder sleeve would double that. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:10 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Evolution of Wire (Correction) 22759/18 is like /16 but =9Cthin wall=9D, if I recall. On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:41, Charlie England wrote: Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory serves, ma ny months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec wire & in the process , found various numbers that all were Tefzel insulation, but some had thicke r insulation (larger overall diameter) than others of the same gauge. I wish I could quote the numbers, but I failed to document what I found. Charlie > On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft Spr uce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased from Stein Air)? > >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire >>> was export controlled so we were leaning toward >>> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license >>> and Teflon became the insulation of choice. >> >> >> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon >> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings >> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto >> the strands at such high temperatures that >> you had to have silver plated strands. >> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow >> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:06 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector suggestion sought I=99ll try him on the knife splices. They feel very 1973 though :) >>sell the airplane Heresy! On Apr 29, 2018, at 13:38, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 09:10 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: > I have lots of pins, and the tooling, and lots of heat shrink. But I don =99t think my avionics person will sign off on it. He=99s quite con servative. > > Can I tell him it passes AC 43.13? I don't think AC43.13 would prohibit it but it's certainly unique with respect to legacy techniques. But if you'd asked some FAA master of the rule books if we could figure out a way to run dozens of amps through arrays of 20AWG d-sub pine, you would most certainly have been discouraged from attempting it. Yet this technique flew on a military supersonic target and on numerous power distribution boxes in the Hawker 4000. Give it a try. If push comes to shove, you can go to knife splices under heat-shrink or even solder-sleeves. These wires are seldom opened for service . . . there's probably enough slack to cut out and replace several solder sleeves . . . by that time you'll probably be more than ready to sell the airplane. The knife splice is attractive from the perspective of wire lost during each remove replace operation. Cutting the single terminal off the EL panel power wire only deprives you of 3/16" or so of wire. Cutting out a solder sleeve would double that. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:28 AM PST US From: =?utf-8?B?SGFucyBKw7ZyZyBGcmVp?= Subject: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Tm8gbGlzdHMgYXJlIGFjdGl2ZSwgc3RpbGwgZ2V0IHRoaXMgbWFpbHMuDQpIb3cgZG8geW91IGRl bGV0ZSB5b3VyIGFjY291bnQvbWVtYmVyc2hpcD8NCkJlc3QuLi4uLkhKDQoNClZvbiBtZWluZW0g aVBob25lIGdlc2VuZGV0DQoNCkFtIDI5LjA0LjIwMTggdW0gMTc6NTkgc2NocmllYiBSb2JlcnQg TC4gTnVja29sbHMsIElJSSA8bnVja29sbHMuYm9iQGFlcm9lbGVjdHJpYy5jb208bWFpbHRvOm51 Y2tvbGxzLmJvYkBhZXJvZWxlY3RyaWMuY29tPj46DQoNCkF0IDAzOjQ3IEFNIDQvMjkvMjAxOCwg eW91IHdyb3RlOg0KDQpIYWxsbyBSb2JlcnQNCg0KSSBnZXQgZXZlcnkgZGF5IGFib3V0IDEwLTIw IGUtbWFpbHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgYWVyb2VsZWN0cmljIGxpc3QgYW5kIEkgZG9udCB3YW50IHRoYXQu DQoNCmhvdyBjYW4gSSByZW1vdmUgbXkgZS1tYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MgZnJvbSB0aGlzIGxpc3Q/DQoN CkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcw0KDQpIYW5zasO2cmcNCg0KDQogR28gdG8gTWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9zdWJz Y3JpYmU8aHR0cDovL01hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vc3Vic2NyaWJlPiBhbmQgdGVsbA0KIHRoZSBzeXN0 ZW0gd2hhdCBsaXN0cyB5b3Ugd2lzaCB0byBrZWVwDQogYW5kIHdoaWNoIHRvIGRpc2NvbnRpbnVl Lg0KDQoNCg0KICBCb2IgLiAuIC4NCg= ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:17 AM PST US From: Kent or Jackie Ashton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Evolution of Wire (Correction) Here is a handy chart of wire species. You can google the coating abbreviations or the part numbers for more info -Kent > On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:41 AM, Charlie England wrote: > > Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Evolution of Wire (Correction) At 11:42 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote: >M22759/16 -- some I have bought (white) is very stiff while other >(colors) is noticeably more flexible. > >On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 7:41 AM, Charlie England ><ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote: >Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory >serves, many months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec >wire & in the process, found various numbers that all were Tefzel >insulation, but some had thicker insulation (larger overall >diameter) than others of the same gauge. I wish I could quote the >numbers, but I failed to document what I found. there is a catalog at: https://goo.gl/ZfNq9T In this document, you will find that 22759 has about 90+ 'slash' numbers that define variations on the theme for this class of wire. There are other mil-spec numbers describing wire that is entirely suited to our tasks. I am mystified that products in a particular /number would demonstrate significant variations . . . unless the variations are a feature not defined in the root specification . . . flexibility may indeed be one. But materials, construction and dimensions should be consistent to the catalog description. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.