Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Question (Ken Ryan)
2. 09:47 AM - Re: Velcro Ties (FLYaDIVE)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (William Daniell)
4. 10:51 AM - Re: Velcro Ties (Ernest Christley)
5. 02:08 PM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (user9253)
6. 02:19 PM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 04:35 PM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Bob,
>From my limited experience, I see no demonstrable benefit to working with
wire as fine as 24AWG. Certainly the weight is a non-issue. 24AWG is
downright dainty compared to 20AWG. I think it is criminal that Ray Allen
uses such fine wire in its servo pigtails. To me, using such fine wire is
just asking for trouble.
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 12:26 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob. That clears some things up for me. You have not commented on
> using 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink. I'm sure at some point the mechanical
> properties of the wire become an issue. Is 24AWG too small to be messing
> with for a fuselink?
>
>
> Actually, no . . .
>
> We used a lot of 24AWG in the airframe wiring
> on Premier . . . lots of grumbling at the outset
> but I think if proved to be pretty much a non
> issue. When crimping 24AWG into the red pidg
> terminals, I do double the strip length and
> fold the strands back to double the copper
> in the crimp . . . and i'm not sure that
> offers demonstrable benefit.
>
> Play around with it on the bench and see
> what YOU think . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 2
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Because I work on a lot of certified aircraft and on them it is not
permitted.
Your logic is good... And another reason why to replace the Velcro with
ty-wraps.
The Velcro is REPLACEABLE, so I can use it on other planes without buying
more and Velcro cost more than a handful of ty-wraps.
Barry
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:11 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net>
wrote:
> Why do you replace the velcro, Barry? I've left it on, and after 6
> months, if you can't find the end of the strip, it is VERY hard to get off.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:23 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Art:
>
> I use Velcro all the time. GREAT for when you are figuring out where and
> how to run wires. Then AFTER all is good, I replace them with Black
> Ty-Wraps. Well, not all black ty-wraps. I use RED on power lines green on
> signal lines and yellow on audio lines. When ever I can... Sometimes
> bundles just don't cooperate.
>
> Barry
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
> straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
> good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
> maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon. com/ <https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/>
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
Joe and Bob,
Thanks so much...as usual a real education. I had no idea that a 22 AWG
fuselink is equivalent to a 30-40AMP fuse. Intuitively I thought it was
much less. Much appreciated.
So if a 22AWG wire is normally "rated" to 5A which means 10degC (Ch8-8)
current rise presumably therefore needs 40A to get to melting point.
By the same token the 16AWG fuselink at the starter contactor (from the
alternator) and from the battery contactor to the buss performs in a
similar way. If this is correct the 16AWG fuselink rated at 12.5A for 10
degC current rise will melt at something like 100A. Whereas the 12AWG wire
it's protecting will melt at something like 150 .
Is this correct?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:51 AM 5/3/2018, you wrote:
>
> The positive wire from the buss to master (and OVP module) to ALT relay i
s
> protected by 22AWG fuselink.
>
> Can I use an ATC fuse instead?
>
> I have reformed and simplified my electrical system based on AEC.=C3=82
I now
> have a fuse buss instead of breakers etc.=C3=82 I have a slot spare and
to use
> an ATC fuse would be simpler.
>
>
> A piece of 22AWG wire has a hard fault
> fusing characteristic on a par with a
> 40-50 at MaxiFuse. You could use a
> MaxiFuse but it's bulkier than the
> fusible link.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 4
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:-)
That last one was the best.=C2- Don't want to be handing out that expensi
ve velcro to everybody that wanders in.=C2- I only have the one plane to
work on...for now, so it makes a good place to store my spares.=C2- :-)
On Friday, May 4, 2018 12:48 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Because I work on a lot of certified aircraft and on them it is not permit
ted.
Your logic is good...=C2- And another reason why to replace the Velcro wi
th ty-wraps.
The Velcro is REPLACEABLE, so I can use it on other planes without buying m
ore and Velcro cost more than a handful of ty-wraps.
Barry
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:11 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net> wrot
e:
Why do you replace the velcro, Barry?=C2- I've left it on, and after 6 mo
nths, if you can't find the end of the strip, it is VERY hard to get off.
On Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:23 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Art:
I use Velcro all the time. GREAT for when you are figuring out where and ho
w to run wires.=C2- Then AFTER all is good, I replace them with Black Ty-
Wraps.=C2- Well, not all black ty-wraps.=C2- I use RED on power lines g
reen on signal lines and yellow on audio lines.=C2- When ever I can...=C2
- Sometimes bundles just don't cooperate.
Barry
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
Folks,
Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
Thanks,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon. com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
See the website below for a pdf listing the fusing (melting) current of wires.
It is a lot higher than one might expect. The choice of wire size has more to
do with voltage drop and insulation properties than the ampacity of the wire.
http://www.hsmwire.com/New%20PDFs/Fusing_Currents_Melting_Temperature_Copper_Aluminum_Magnet_Wire.pdf
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479856#479856
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
At 12:01 PM 5/4/2018, you wrote:
>Joe and Bob,
>
>Thanks so much...as usual a real education.=C2 =C2
>I had no idea that a 22 AWG fuselink is
>equivalent to a 30-40AMP fuse.=C2 =C2 Intuitively I
>thought it was much less.=C2 =C2 Much appreciated.
>
>So if a 22AWG wire is normally "rated" to 5A
>which means 10degC (Ch8-8) current rise
>presumably therefore needs 40A to get to melting point.=C2
Exactly . . . see https://goo.gl/zye61w
Circuit protection is about keeping insulation
temperatures comfortably below maximum rated
operating vales. Wire size is all about maintaining
distribution voltage drops below acceptable levels
based on system design goals. 5% is the max-drop
rule of thumb although other values may be adopted
by program managers.
Wire sizing tends to be very conservative . . . unless
you are as weight-sensitive as a moon mission or
Voyager flight, the design rules will keep wires
pretty cool.
>By the same token the 16AWG fuselink at the
>starter contactor (from the alternator) and from
>the battery contactor to the buss performs in a
>similar way. If this is correct the 16AWG
>fuselink rated at 12.5A for 10 degC current rise
>will melt at something like 100A. Whereas the
>12AWG wire it's protecting will melt at something like 150.
Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect
major feeders of a distribution system against
hard faults . . . generally experienced only during
major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault,
were talking many times hundreds to thousands of
amps supplied by a battery . . . not the soft
fault precipitated by a failing appliance.
https://goo.gl/QEBeZs
>Is this correct?
Generally . . . When we use plain-vanilla wire
as a fusible link in the OBAM aircraft world, it's
a good idea to use the silicone/fiberglas sleeving
over it to limit the propagation of heat damage
during a fusing event. In the ground transportation
industries, fusible links are fabricated from wire
having friendlier outcomes during the fusing event.
Hypalon insulation (A Dupont product that targeted
electric locomotives in mines) is used on many
fusible link replacement assemblies available at your
local car parts stores . . . or in bulk wire on
places like eBay.
https://goo.gl/RH2eEY
The material selected for a fusible link has
little to do the loads presented by downstream
appliances. The wire in fusible link is EXPECTED
to burn . . . at many degrees above the insulation
rating. Selection of material is about reduction
of risk in the rare but catastrophic event.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) |
The redirection link didn't capture the whole
page . . . here's a 'fix' . . .
Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect
major feeders of a distribution system against
hard faults . . . generally experienced only during
major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault,
were talking many times hundreds to thousands of
amps supplied by a battery . . . not the soft
fault precipitated by a failing appliance.
https://goo.gl/up9oNB
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
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