Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:43 AM - 24AWG airframe wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 07:27 AM - Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable (Art Zemon)
3. 08:53 AM - Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable (Lawrence Handberg)
4. 01:43 PM - Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable (Charlie England)
5. 02:18 PM - Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable (Gerald Farek)
6. 06:19 PM - Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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Subject: | 24AWG airframe wire |
At 11:38 AM 5/4/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
> From my limited experience, I see no demonstrable benefit to
> working with wire as fine as 24AWG. Certainly the weight is a
> non-issue. 24AWG is downright dainty compared to 20AWG. I think it
> is criminal that Ray Allen uses such fine wire in its servo
> pigtails. To me, using such fine wire is just asking for trouble.
I had conversations with those folk about
that several years running at OSH. Those
conversations that prompted the article I posted at . . .
https://goo.gl/GmNi5Q
The use of 24 AWG in Premier wasn't so
much a weight thing as it was a volume
and to some extent a flexibility issue.
The battle between various systems groups
can approach blood-letting ferocity when
parceling out spaces in the airframe. Of
course, the engine and flight controls
guys are at the top of the hierarchy
with everyone else scrambling for the
'scraps'. My heart bled for the HVAC
guys . . . making ductwork smaller
was never a happy thought.
I had the electrical-avionics group on
the GP180 when it was still a joint
venture between Gates and Piaggio . . .
so been there, done that. We were happy
to get Tefzel wires on the airplane at
the time.
The 'open' spaces between cabin trim
and the aircraft skin on that airplane
was just about an inch . . . There
were structural limitations on just
how big a hole you could put in a former
to run tubes, wires, etc. I wasn't closely
connected to the Premier program at Beech,
but wrestling matches were equally exciting
if not more so.
The 24AWG in airframe bundles was all
assembled on form boards with wires measured
and terminated on automatic machines. It
had very little impact on the line techs.
But I agree, the 24AWG flying leads off
the MAC/RA servos served no customer-friendly
purpose.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
Folks,
I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG
cable) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my
rudder cables.
=8B
Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
You could use one of these
Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool
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Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool
Restricted circuits can cause wire failure, melting or even a fire. Crimp
wires and butt connectors properly wit... | |
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If you cant borrow one wait for a 25% of coupon.Good luck
From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 7:42 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable
Folks,
I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG cable
) per=C2-http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my rud
der cables.=C2-=8B
Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG
> cable) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
> Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my
> rudder cables.
>
>
> Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
I'd lean toward solder, since there's no assurance that the die will apply
the right level of compression (It's made for the figure-8 shape of cable
swages).
Do you have access to a hydraulic press? I crimped some #4 cables using a
big Crescent wrench adjusted to just larger than the barrel diameter, and a
piece of steel the same thickness as the barrel. Barrel between the jaws of
the wrench, steel on edge above the barrel, and used the press ram to crimp
it.
I need to put some lugs on some #4 direct-burial aluminum 'quad-plex' cable
for a house/hangar project, and I'm thinking about just using my rivet
squeezer for that (the cable is already in the ground; hard to get the
press up the hill to the ends).
For the price, this tool is tempting, though:
https://jet.com/product/detail/044de210e0e54490b3104f2933a8c4e9?jcmp=pla:
ggl:nj_roc_gen_tools_home_improvement_a2:tools_home_improvement_power_hand_
tools_strippers_crimpers_a2:na:PLA_1062736267_53681764978_pla-575440131752_
c:na:na:na:2PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=1062736267&is_retargeting=true&cl
ickid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-66d818f2a6db&kclid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d
8-66d818f2a6db&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrLXXBRCXARIsAIttmRMz6bd20WicKga0R-gwf9V31rSn
EMlvZaDPr9oFZflf-2UX0q9m0JgaAsNREALw_wcB
Looks like it came from the same factory as the Harbor freight tool they
sell for $55.
Charlie
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
HarborFreight has the same crimper.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 5, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG cab
le) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>>
>> Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my r
udder cables.
>>
>>
>> Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
> I'd lean toward solder, since there's no assurance that the die will apply
the right level of compression (It's made for the figure-8 shape of cable s
wages).
>
> Do you have access to a hydraulic press? I crimped some #4 cables using a b
ig Crescent wrench adjusted to just larger than the barrel diameter, and a p
iece of steel the same thickness as the barrel. Barrel between the jaws of t
he wrench, steel on edge above the barrel, and used the press ram to crimp i
t.
>
> I need to put some lugs on some #4 direct-burial aluminum 'quad-plex' cabl
e for a house/hangar project, and I'm thinking about just using my rivet squ
eezer for that (the cable is already in the ground; hard to get the press up
the hill to the ends).
>
> For the price, this tool is tempting, though:
> https://jet.com/product/detail/044de210e0e54490b3104f2933a8c4e9?jcmp=pla
:ggl:nj_roc_gen_tools_home_improvement_a2:tools_home_improvement_power_hand_
tools_strippers_crimpers_a2:na:PLA_1062736267_53681764978_pla-575440131752_c
:na:na:na:2PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=1062736267&is_retargeting=true&clic
kid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-66d818f2a6db&kclid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-6
6d818f2a6db&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrLXXBRCXARIsAIttmRMz6bd20WicKga0R-gwf9V31rSnEMlv
ZaDPr9oFZflf-2UX0q9m0JgaAsNREALw_wcB
>
> Looks like it came from the same factory as the Harbor freight tool they s
ell for $55.
>
> Charlie
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
Art:
There are TRICKS in soldering cables for such things as the Battery &
Alternator.
They are NOT difficult but the procedure is NOT just to solder and get a
total covered flow as you would when doing say a binding post or a Western
Union Splice.
Many will argue that you should NOT solder ANY type or SIZE terminal end.
Not - True... There are Tricks!!!
99.673% of us would never solder a terminal lug under say a 10 AWG.
But soldering larger terminals work GREAT to make both a Physical bond and
an Electrical bond.
OK, so here are the tricks:
1 - The Lug must be the proper size for the wire you are using.
2 - Make sure the Lug and the Wire are CLEAN.
3 - If you are using a stranded wire as opposed to a braided wire <-- Some
welding wires are braided.
Twist the wire end to tighten the bond between strands. Twist them in the
same direction as the wire under the insulation.
4 - Art, I'm lucky as I never had to use crimp tool that was not
hydraulic. So I will not comment on how well your proposed tool will work.
I will say: The snugger the fit between the wire and the lug the better
the crimp.
5 - I use Silver Solder. Silver Solder is STRONGER then Tin/Lead solder.
O! NEVER use Lead Free Solder! It ain't worth the gunpowder to blow it to
hell!
[Side Note: Military contracts specifically state Tin/Lead Solder. 63/37
Eutectic Solder.] Silver Solder has a better conductivity than Tin/Led
solder. AND... There are different types of Silver Solder. You want to
use Silver Bearing Solder - I use 5% Silver. Stronger and Better
Conductivity.
6 - At this point I have to try to dispel some Old Wive's Tails:
a> Soldering a Lug will cause corrosion.
Of course it will if you do not clean off the Flux.
b> Soldering a Lug will crystallize the wire.
Of course it will if you use a Oxy-Acetylene torch.
7 - The Soldering Trick - As I stated before: DO NOT SOLDER THE ENTIRE LUG!
That is VERY TRUE! And the reason for NOT soldering the entire lug is:
It creates what is know as a Hard Point.
No! Not like Hard Points on the F-16.
A Hard Point is a Point where there is NO flexibility.
Why do you think our small wires work so well and last so long.
Flexibility!
When you step up to a Heavier Cable and lock it into a Non-Flexible
condition, Right At the solid mounted point of the Lug and then vibration
moves the cable, the weak point is right where the flexible cable enters
the un-flexible lug.
So - What do you solder? After crimping, you solder the Ring End of the
lug. Just as wire comes out of the lug.
You do not need much. Unfortunately experience helps here. You would like
the Silver Solder to flow half way down the barrel of the lug and STOP!
There is more than enough physical contact with the crimp itself in forming
the connection.
But, the Silver Solder will:
~ Create the Electrical Bond - Above and well beyond that of the crimp
itself.
~ Prevent contamination - Especially at battery terminals. Silver, even
dirty is a better conductor than copper.
Side Note: YES, you can use FLUX. And you better! But, there are three
(3) types of flux that can be used:
1 - RA - Rosin Activated
2 - RMA - Rosin Mildly Activated
3 - AC - Acid Core
Now to scare the bejeebers out of 99.9% of the readers. It does NOT matter
which flux you use.
Wait for it...
Wait for it...
It does Not matter as long as you clean it 100%.
That is the problem. The best flux to use on Silver Solder is AC. But,
not many shops use ultrasonics or vapor degreasing in cleaning their
wires.
Cleaning the Flux off.
There are two (2) types of liquid flux.
~ Water Based and
~ Alcohol based.
Either type can be cleaned with Alcohol. Isopropyl works great AND you can
let the cables and even circuit boards soak in it.
What is the purpose of flux? Sorry Wikipedia is incorrect. It is NOT for
mechanical strength. Well, not the way it reads.
It is to prevent oxidation. Oxidation causes poor electrical and physical
bonding.
Next Trick: Be Careful with open flame. No, not because you are going to
burn the hanger down. Because it causes Oxidation. - Use indirect
heating. - Either use a TIP on the end of the torch or heat the lug from
the backside, the side away from the wire. If you are using the open flame,
keep the flame moving. You will have to practious.
I can guarantee you 1,000 % if done this way the connection will last at
least 22 Years and you will NOT have starting issues. Well, I can't
guarantee the starting issue part, because I do not know the rest of your
system. But, mine has been working for the past 22 Years! I'm sure yours
will too.
Barry
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG
> cable) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
> Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my
> rudder cables.
> =8B
>
> Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
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