---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/08/18: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:43 AM - Re: Lithium: State of the technology (stephen092) 2. 06:41 AM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (Ernest Christley) 3. 06:41 AM - Re: Cable end crimping (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: Cable end crimping (Bill Allen) 5. 08:02 AM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) (William Daniell) 6. 08:05 AM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (Alec Myers) 7. 08:06 AM - New Antennae (speedy11@aol.com) 8. 08:16 AM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (user9253) 9. 08:32 AM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (user9253) 10. 08:36 AM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (David Lloyd) 11. 08:40 AM - Bus bar materials (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 08:56 AM - Authority to solder splice a wire (Jeff Page) 13. 09:00 AM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) (Charlie England) 14. 09:18 AM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (Charlie England) 15. 09:43 AM - Re: New Antennae (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 10:14 AM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) (William Daniell) 17. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (GTH) 18. 10:38 AM - Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? (jonlaury) 19. 01:33 PM - TyWraps redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 01:53 PM - Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 01:58 PM - Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 22. 02:45 PM - Re: New Antennae (speedy11) 23. 04:13 PM - Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions (user9253) 24. 05:06 PM - Re: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? (Allan Aaron) 25. 07:15 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Art Zemon) 26. 08:24 PM - Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Art Zemon) 27. 09:35 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Eric Page) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:19 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Lithium: State of the technology From: "stephen092" This article identified with the self-protection of the general population incorporating people in their genuine living but dissertation writing services uk reviews (https://www.topbritishessays.com/) share good stuff. They can keep up their fundamental needs on the accessible assets and utilized them in an exceptionally instructed way. A debt of gratitude is in order for sharing the most educational article. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479930#479930 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:18 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions I don't understand the physics of this, Joe.=C2- If I have a small, drain ed lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60 shoved down its throat.=C2- If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the tw o would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative inte rnal and installation resistance.=C2- If I hung 10 lithium batteries on t hat same alternator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the pi lot not ever having anything to worry about. At least, that is how I understand the physics.=C2- I guess what I don't understand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a smal ler one result in more risk? On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 wrote: Lithium batteries have low internal resistance.=C2- Unlike Lead Acid batt eries, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output capacit y of the alternator.=C2- Therefore the battery should be sized based on t he alternator size.=C2- If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big a nd one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate.=C2 - For instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 am p-hour Lithium battery if the battery was completely run down.=C2- To pre vent that, EarthX recommends putting a diode in series with the charging ci rcuit.=C2- The diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode). =C2- Lower charging voltage results in less current.=C2- Read all about it in this document by EarthX: https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479917#479917 - S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cable end crimping At 08:09 AM 5/7/2018, you wrote: >Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, - >could anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors? Why not just replace the wire? How long is it? Have you considered welding cable from local supplier . . . they might even be able to hydraulically apply terminals for a decent price. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:01 AM PST US From: Bill Allen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cable end crimping Replacing the wire was a possibility, but it runs so deep and long into the wing/fuselage that it would be more surgery than just replacing the section in the engine bay which had the last 4=9D overheat due to a poor con nection. I=99m thinking something like this; https://www.amazon.com/Panduit-SCS2-0-X-Conductor-Standard/dp/B007EWQDSU/re f=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1525699768&sr=8-19&keywords=%232+wire+butt+ splicesHere Bill On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 15:46, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 08:09 AM 5/7/2018, you wrote: > > Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, - could > anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors? > > > Why not just replace the wire? How long > is it? Have you considered welding cable > from local supplier . . . they might even > be able to hydraulically apply terminals > for a decent price. > > > Bob . . . > -- Bill Allen LongEz160 N99BA FD51 CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:48 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) So continuing this theme on z16 can you explain why the alt has a 16 awg fuse link and the buss doesnt? Thanks Will On Fri, May 4, 2018, 18:40 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > The redirection link didn't capture the whole > page . . . here's a 'fix' . . . > > > * Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect major feeders of a > distribution system against hard faults . . . generally experienced only > during major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault, were talking > many times hundreds to thousands of amps supplied by a battery . . . not > the soft fault precipitated by a failing appliance. * > https://goo.gl/up9oNB > > > Bob . . . > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:11 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions I don=99t think Joe intended the large one creates the risk. I understood the risk was the to the small one, with the possible misunderstanding by the installer that the presence of the large battery protects the small, which it doesn=99t. On May 8, 2018, at 09:39, Ernest Christley > wrote: I don't understand the physics of this, Joe. If I have a small, drained lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60 shoved down its throat. If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the two would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative internal and installation resistance. If I hung 10 lithium batteries on that same alternator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the pilot not ever having anything to worry about. At least, that is how I understand the physics. I guess what I don't understand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a smaller one result in more risk? On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 > wrote: > Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid batteries, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output capacity of the alternator. Therefore the battery should be sized based on the alternator size. If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big and one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate. For instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 amp-hour Lithium battery if the battery was completely run down. To prevent that, EarthX recommends putting a diode in series with the charging circuit. The diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode). Lower charging voltage results in less current. Read all about it in this document by EarthX: https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479917#479917 <=============== AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Aer - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://fop ; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.c= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:06 AM PST US From: speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT. I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the desired one meter separation between all antennae. My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna. Thanks Stan Sutterfield ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:43 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions From: "user9253" The size of any installed battery must be chosen so that it is capable of accepting the full output of the alternator. If it is desired to use a smaller Lithium battery that can not accept the full alternator output, then some means must be used to limit the charging current to that small battery if it happens to be almost discharged. You are right that if there are always other aircraft loads using current, then the full alternator output is no longer available to charge a battery. I guess I did not word my previous post very well and it is confusing. Two different sized Lithium batteries in parallel does not result in more risk. The only risk is when a Lithium battery is charged with more current than it is rated for. If the battery happens to be completely run down, then it will accept the full alternator output which might be too great for the size of battery. One way to limit the charging current is to install a series Schottky diode. The EarthX document (that I provided a link to in my original post) explains it a lot more clearly than I can. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479942#479942 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions From: "user9253" Even if only one Lithium battery is installed in the aircraft, the size of that battery must be such that it can accept the full alternator output. If the installer bases the battery size only on its ability to crank the engine without considering the size of the alternator, then a large alternator might force too much current into the Lithium battery and damage it. (Fire) -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479945#479945 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:15 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions Every battery has a certain "internal resistance -IR" build in due to its c hemistry, connectivity inside, age, temperature, etc., etc. This resistanc e is variable and very low; in milliohms, but, it is there. Suppose the smaller of the two batteries has a lower IR than the larger one =2E The alternator is only looking at the resistance of its load; it reall y doesn't know that it is a battery, only a load. And, since the smaller i n this case may have a lower load IR resistance, the majority of the curren t is headed into the small battery first. At least, until its IR changes a nd goes higher, then, current is deflected or shared with the other battery in parallel..... In the case of a much discharged small battery, the curre nt going in could exceed its capability to cope. . . . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Christley To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 6:39 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions I don't understand the physics of this, Joe. If I have a small, drained lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60 sh oved down its throat. If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the two would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative internal and installation resistance. If I hung 10 lithium batteries on that same alte rnator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the pilot not ever having anything to worry about. At least, that is how I understand the physics. I guess what I don't und erstand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a smaller one result in more risk? On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 wrote: Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid batteri es, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output capacity o f the alternator. Therefore the battery should be sized based on the alter nator size. If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big and one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate. For instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 amp-hour Lithium batt ery if the battery was completely run down. To prevent that, EarthX recomm ends putting a diode in series with the charging circuit. The diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode). Lower charging voltage resul ts in less current. Read all about it in this document by EarthX: https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design -------- Joe Gores --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bus bar materials At 10:03 PM 5/6/2018, you wrote: >Joe, > >Thank you for that calculation. It sounds like thicker material >would be better. >I think that I will try flattening a piece of copper tube. Any >excuse to play with >a hydraulic press and solder in the same day is a good excuse > >On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 9:43 PM, user9253 ><fransew@gmail.com> wrote: ><fransew@gmail.com> >The area of your bus bar is 0.025 x 0.5 = 0.0125 >0.0125 equals 12,500 circular mills which is slightly bigger than 10 AWG. "Circular mills" is a different kind of area. It's simply the diameter of a conductor in thousandths squared. 10AWG ~ 0.100" diameter or 100 mills. 100^2 is 10,000 hence the circular mill rating of 10,000. The real cross section of 10AWG is pi x radius^2 or 0.05 x 0.05 x 3.14 = 0.0078 square inches. Circular mills are a unit of area PROPORTIONAL to cross section. The cross section of the cited brass bus bar is indeed 0.0125 Square Inches which is about 1.5 times the cross section of a 10AWG solid wire . . . but let us consider another case: Suppose you have a wire 1.000 inches in diameter (1000 'mils'). The CMA value for this conductor would be 1 million while the cross section would be 0.5 x 0.5 x 3.14 or 0.785 square inches. A bar having a cross section of 1.000 x 0.785 would have an area of 785,000 square mills . . . the same cross section as a 1.000" diameter wire of 1,000,000 CMA. So when comparing the cross section of the bus with that of 10AWG wire, be aware of the 0.785:1 ratio between square mills and circular mils. Another consideration in this thread is the relative conductivity of the materials being considered. Copper and brass have wide ranges of RESISTANCE. Resistance is the major driver in a conductor's ability to (1) transport the energy with acceptable losses and (2) carry the current while maintaining temperature rise below acceptable limits. Silver has a resistance of 1.6 uOhm/cu-cm Copper is something like of 1.7 uOhm/cu-cm Aluminum alloys . . . 3 to 6 uOhm/cu-cm Copper alloys (Brass) . . . . 6 to 10 uOhm/cu-cm Of all common materials for use as stud-to-stud bar construction, copper is electrically superior with brass trailing a distant 4th place. 'Copper equivalent' brass bars may be fabricated by making the cross section ~4 times that of the copper one. Aluminum has been used in production aircraft with good success and only needs to be 2x fatter electrically . . . but is thermally superior for heat conduction . . . so copper and aluminum are about equal. The biggest caveat for using aluminum is to strive for gas-tight electrical joints . . . moisture present at the interface between differing alloys combined l with oxygen promotes corrosion which in time can lead to joint failure. Coating the surfaces with some robust moisture barrier (DC4 or even WD40) before making up the joint will impeded moisture/oxygen ingress. For the instance that germinated this thread, I'll suggest that an aluminum bar cut from sheet or off the shelf extrusion is easy to fabricate . . . and the parallel surfaces go to achieving gas-tight interfaces of the made up joints. Copper sheet good too. Mashing copper tube is kinda good if you can really put the mash on the material between PARALLEL jaws. If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a whole lot easier to drill! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:52 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire AeroElectic Wizards: I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on the yoke of my Cessna 172. This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs behind the instrument panel to the intercom. I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink. The log book entry needs to read something like: Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide. I cannot find any section that discussed splicing wires in this manner ! Does someone have a reference within an authoritative document that I can cite indicating this is an acceptable method of repair ? Thanks ! Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:36 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) The link protects the 12awg from the battery, in case of a hard fault on that line. (Think about faults under the cowl, where you'd never see/smell them in operation.) The feed to the main bus is protected from the battery by the master contactor, with the expectation that the pilot would detect the fault and manually turn off the master. Common FAA-accepted practice in certified planes. On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:52 AM, William Daniell wrote: > So continuing this theme on z16 can you explain why the alt has a 16 awg > fuse link and the buss doesnt? > > Thanks > > Will > > On Fri, May 4, 2018, 18:40 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> The redirection link didn't capture the whole >> page . . . here's a 'fix' . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect major feeders of a >> distribution system against hard faults . . . generally experienced only >> during major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault, were talking >> many times hundreds to thousands of amps supplied by a battery . . . not >> the soft fault precipitated by a failing appliance. * >> https://goo.gl/up9oNB >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:37 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions The issue wouldn't be that the smaller of two Li batteries would have lower inherent internal resistance (it shouldn't), but that the smaller might be fully discharged and the larger be fully charged. In that situation, the lion's share of charge current would flow to the small battery. Having said that, it raises one of my gripes with the EarthX products. They are supposed to have a robust battery management system built in. That battery management system supposedly controls charging, up to and including cell balancing. The BMS sits between the charging source and the cells of the battery. If it's doing its job, *the BMS* should be controlling charge current into each cell; *not* the generating source. Telling us that a too-large alternator can damage their battery is admitting that the BMS... isn't. Rant mode off.... Charlie On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:34 AM, David Lloyd wrote: > Every battery has a certain "internal resistance -IR" build in due to its > chemistry, connectivity inside, age, temperature, etc., etc. This > resistance is variable and very low; in milliohms, but, it is there. > > Suppose the smaller of the two batteries has a lower IR than the larger > one. The alternator is only looking at the resistance of its load; it > really doesn't know that it is a battery, only a load. And, since the > smaller in this case may have a lower load IR resistance, the majority of > the current is headed into the small battery first. At least, until its IR > changes and goes higher, then, current is deflected or shared with the > other battery in parallel..... In the case of a much discharged small > battery, the current going in could exceed its capability to cope. . . . > > ------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ernest Christley > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 08, 2018 6:39 AM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions > > I don't understand the physics of this, Joe. If I have a small, drained > lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60 > shoved down its throat. If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the two > would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative > internal and installation resistance. If I hung 10 lithium batteries on > that same alternator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the > pilot not ever having anything to worry about. > > At least, that is how I understand the physics. I guess what I don't > understand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a > smaller one result in more risk? > > > On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > > Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid > batteries, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output > capacity of the alternator. Therefore the battery should be sized based on > the alternator size. If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big and > one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate. For > instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 amp-hour > Lithium battery if the battery was completely run down. To prevent that, > EarthX recommends putting a diode in series with the charging circuit. The > diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode). Lower charging > voltage results in less current. Read all about it in this document by > EarthX: > https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_106377303924725087_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: >I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one >standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT. >I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one >transponder. The real estate for mounting is limited since they are >all mounted on the fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able >to come close to the desired one meter separation between all antennae. >My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior >primer paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is >the mounting screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground >plane? I will, of course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna. >Thanks >Stan Sutterfield https://goo.gl/skAS8R Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:45 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) Charlie thanks So it wouldn't be "wrong" to put a fuselink in the line to the buss? WIll William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:59 AM, Charlie England wrote: > The link protects the 12awg from the battery, in case of a hard fault on > that line. (Think about faults under the cowl, where you'd never see/smell > them in operation.) > The feed to the main bus is protected from the battery by the master > contactor, with the expectation that the pilot would detect the fault and > manually turn off the master. Common FAA-accepted practice in certified > planes. > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:52 AM, William Daniell < > wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: > >> So continuing this theme on z16 can you explain why the alt has a 16 awg >> fuse link and the buss doesnt? >> >> Thanks >> >> Will >> >> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 18:40 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> The redirection link didn't capture the whole >>> page . . . here's a 'fix' . . . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect major feeders of >>> a distribution system against hard faults . . . generally experienced >>> only during major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault, were >>> talking many times hundreds to thousands of amps supplied by a battery . >>> . . not the soft fault precipitated by a failing appliance. * >>> https://goo.gl/up9oNB >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions From: GTH Le 08/05/2018 17:16, user9253 a crit: > If it is desired to use a smaller Lithium battery that can not accept the full alternator output, then some means must be used to limit the charging current to that small battery if it happens to be almost discharged. Hi all, Isn't that what the Battery Management System is for ? I would have thought that every Lithium battery *must* have such a device to monitor and manage the charging of each and every element in the battery, and to prevent overcharging. The alternator doesn't directly "see" the battery internal resistance, but rather the BMS interface. Last year when I ordered two EarthX batteries for installation on a new aircraft, the - knowledgeable - sales person did not express any concern over the type or rating of the alternator. Bottom line, is this a real issue ? Just wondering, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? From: "jonlaury" I saw a pic of Dave Anders' RV4 with two Shorai bats, sharing a BMS. Anyone on the list using Shorai stuff? If you are, please tell us your engine displacement and product part #'s, and briefly your electrical architecture. Hours flown and how it's all working out would be helpful as well. Thanks, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479956#479956 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:17 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: TyWraps redux In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on these products about ten years back . . . In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process of applying the wrap. Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its close cousins have found their way into all manner of component, many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles. When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors. All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold years and were literally falling apart. My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied like so . . . https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years but I'm betting the string will still be on duty. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:08 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) At 12:13 PM 5/8/2018, you wrote: >Charlie thanks > >So it wouldn't be "wrong" to put a fuselink in the line to the buss? This is a crew controlled feed from the battery . . . not expected to be 'hot' on approach-to-the-rocks. If contact with the ground is un-controlled . . . then the whole system is likely to be hot . . . existence of circuit protection probably has no useful effect on the outcome. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: > >AeroElectic Wizards: > >I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on >the yoke of my Cessna 172. >This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs >behind the instrument panel to the intercom. > >I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink. > >The log book entry needs to read something like: >Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide. There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship, I wouldn't bother to record it. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:11 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: New Antennae From: "speedy11" Perfect. Thanks, Bob. Stan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479961#479961 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:50 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions From: "user9253" My posts above were based upon my interpretation of an EarthX document, which can be found here: https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design _ EarthX also has some interesting FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) here: https://earthxbatteries.com/faqs _ EarthX lists the 3 main considerations when choosing a battery for your aircraft: 1. Will it crank the engine? 2. Is its capacity enough to supply power after the alternator fails? 3. Is it sized for the alternator? https://earthxbatteries.com/product-category/experimental-aircraft -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479962#479962 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:44 PM PST US From: Allan Aaron Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? For what its worth, I had a Shorai, lasted 6 months of light duty use then started bulging and died. Since it failed more than 12 months after purchase, the vendor would not replace it. I bought an EarthX and it has been great. I wouldn't touch another Shorai. Allan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of jonlaury Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 3:38 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? --> I saw a pic of Dave Anders' RV4 with two Shorai bats, sharing a BMS. Anyone on the list using Shorai stuff? If you are, please tell us your engine displacement and product part #'s, and briefly your electrical architecture. Hours flown and how it's all working out would be helpful as well. Thanks, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479956#479956 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:20 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus bar materials On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet > with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a > whole lot easier to drill! > =8B Bob=8B, =8BThat's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum. =8B When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric grease like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-Grade-Dielectric-Grease-0 5113/206843029 ? -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:25 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Folks, Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing. Thanks, -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:20 PM PST US From: Eric Page Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Here are three 0.25"-width versions at Digi-Key for various wire gauges: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42100-1/A27935CT-ND/456897 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/60249-1/A27929CT-ND/456893 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/1-1393310-8/A117815CT-ND/4729959 There are probably others; you just have to scrutinize the photos and drawings. 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