Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Jeff Page)
2. 08:55 AM - Re: TyWraps redux (FLYaDIVE)
3. 08:55 AM - Re: Bus bar materials (FLYaDIVE)
4. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Alec Myers)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Charlie England)
7. 09:15 AM - Re: New Antennae (FLYaDIVE)
8. 09:56 AM - Re: New Antennae (Sebastien)
9. 10:49 AM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Ken Ryan)
10. 11:46 AM - Re: New Antennae (speedy11)
11. 12:15 PM - Re: New Antennae (FLYaDIVE)
12. 01:00 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (C&K)
13. 01:39 PM - Re: New Antennae (Kelly McMullen)
14. 02:06 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 02:07 PM - Re: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? (Ernest Christley)
16. 02:12 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (FLYaDIVE)
17. 02:28 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 02:29 PM - Re: New Antennae (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 02:41 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Alec Myers)
20. 03:24 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 04:35 PM - Re: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? (Allan Aaron)
22. 07:19 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Art Zemon)
23. 07:26 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Art Zemon)
24. 07:33 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Art Zemon)
25. 07:47 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Ken Ryan)
26. 07:49 PM - Firewall Power Lug (kearney)
27. 08:11 PM - Re: Firewall Power Lug (Art Zemon)
28. 11:16 PM - Re: TyWraps redux (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
Bob,
In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing
off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list
of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just
inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$.
As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of
splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is
commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ?
Thanks,
Jeff
> Time: 01:58:27 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire
>
> At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> AeroElectic Wizards:
>>
>> I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on
>> the yoke of my Cessna 172.
>> This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs
>> behind the instrument panel to the intercom.
>>
>> I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink.
>>
>> The log book entry needs to read something like:
>> Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide.
>
> There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that
> don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described
> have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship,
> I wouldn't bother to record it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: TyWraps redux |
Good point Bob...
In general BLACK Ty-Wraps are UV and Ozone proof. The white ones become
brittle with time and exposure.
SOME - not all colored Ty-Wraps may also work.
One might even find notes on the Ty-Wrap packaging as to UV & Ozone
resistant.
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution
> for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on
> these products about ten years back . . .
>
> In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks
> of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with
> age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process
> of applying the wrap.
>
> Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved
> over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its
> close cousins have found their way into all manner of component,
> many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles.
>
> When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even
> a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor
> Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but
> some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors.
>
> All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes
> in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold
> years and were literally falling apart.
>
> My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied
> like so . . .
>
> https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ
>
> Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was
> installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had
> laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the
> roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the
> TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years
> but I'm betting the string will still be on duty.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Bus bar materials |
Art:
The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of Dielectric
Grease.
It is a CONDUCTOR grease which usually has very fine copper or silver dust
in it.
I doubt if silver is available today as the cost would be ridiculously high
.
It can be obtained at industrial electrical supply houses.
It is used on 'BUGS' for high voltage and high current connections in the
industrial electronic world.
It also works GREAT on Aluminum to Aluminum connections such as sliding
tubes of antennas.
https://www.voltlighting.com/outdoor-landscape-lighting-grease/p/VAC-GREASE
1?gdffi=011cd79751a042aeb028091a0a1ac126&gdfms=37FE4BE861D045F3BD53FEFE
586CE951&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&scid=scplpVAC-G
REASE1&sc_intid=VAC-GREASE1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1M77sOr42gIVSwSRCh11BAXwE
AQYASABEgLKkfD_BwE
BUT! An easy trick would be to make your CLEAN bolt together connection
and then spray it with chromate paint. If you keep the moisture AND oxygen
off the connection you reduce the chance of corrosion GREATLY!
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:13 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet
>> with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a
>> whole lot easier to drill!
>>
> =8B
> Bob=8B,
>
> =8BThat's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum.
=8B
>
> When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric grease like this:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-
> Grade-Dielectric-Grease-05113/206843029 ?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
At 02:00 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing
>off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list
>of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just
>inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$.
>
>As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of
>splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is
>commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ?
They haven't gotten around to that yet . . . but
probably will. When not specifically covered in AC43-13
it may suffice to say, "Spliced and insulated wires per
shop practice."
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
Jeff
Refer to paragraph 19.4 of NASA technical standard NASA-STD 8739.4A, WORKMANSHIP
STANDARD FOR CRIMPING, INTERCONNECTING CABLES, HARNESSES, AND WIRING
That should be acceptable to the Minister.
On May 9, 2018, at 03:00, Jeff Page <jpx@qenesis.com> wrote:
Bob,
In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing off the
annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list of things accomplished.
I am happy they let me do the work and just inspect it, since that saves
me a lot of $$$.
As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of splicing a wire
with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is commonly done, so it must be
blessed by the government somewhere ?
Thanks,
Jeff
> Time: 01:58:27 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire
>
> At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> AeroElectic Wizards:
>>
>> I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on
>> the yoke of my Cessna 172.
>> This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs
>> behind the instrument panel to the intercom.
>>
>> I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink.
>>
>> The log book entry needs to read something like:
>> Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide.
>
> There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that
> don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described
> have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship,
> I wouldn't bother to record it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that
I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45
years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. :-) Similar products I
found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me
question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and
corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you
need a dedicated crimper for those.
Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs indicate
that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a standard
Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the wire
leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming off,
regardless of the 'latch' feature.
FWIW...
Charlie
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.
> aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to
> keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
I'm not sure who asked the question...
You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane.
You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the plane
to create a Ground Plane.
I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which
reduces/elininates the electrical contact area.
My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a good
electrical ground connection with the Screws.
To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do this
with a 100 deg counter-sink tool.
The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a nice
small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the skin.
As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer?
Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT the
entire area.
Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in
color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation.
Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again, you
only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/lock
washer.
You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a
resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO
OHMS is what you are looking for.
After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over the
external screw heads sealing off moisture.
As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the
manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV.
I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket.
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>
> I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one
> standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT.
> I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The
> real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the
> fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the
> desired one meter separation between all antennae.
> My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer
> paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting
> screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of
> course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna.
> Thanks
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
> https://goo.gl/skAS8R
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to large.
Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger can do so at
their end.
As for antenna grounding, I would stick with the manufacturer's
instructions. For example:
>From COMANT
Aircraft Skin Surface and Mounting Preparation
The electrical bonding of the antenna to the aircraft ground is highly
important. If this is not done properly, antenna performance
characteristics may become distorted and nulls may appear in the antenna
radiation pattern. This, in turn, may cause erratic navigational readings
or signal drop out. The electrical bonding of the antennas to the aircraft
skin is best accomplished by direct *metal-to metal contact of the antenna
base to the aircraft skin*. To accomplish this, *the aircraft paint in the
mounting area will need to be removed* and the surface alodined to protect
aluminum against corrosion. An alternate method for providing electrical
bonding is through the mounting screws, which attach to a backing plate
inside the aircraft skin. Remove any interior paint in the area where the
backing plate is placed to assure a good ground. Coat this area with
alodine to minimize corrosion. To test the electrical bonding of the blade
to the aircraft, a reading of .003 ohms between the antenna base plate and
ground should be achieved.
>From RAMI
CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION
=8B
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 8:00 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure who asked the question...
>
> You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane.
> You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the plan
e
> to create a Ground Plane.
> I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which
> reduces/elininates the electrical contact area.
> My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a
> good electrical ground connection with the Screws.
> To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do thi
s
> with a 100 deg counter-sink tool.
> The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a nic
e
> small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the skin.
> As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer?
> Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT th
e
> entire area.
> Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in
> color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation.
> Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again,
> you only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/lo
ck
> washer.
> You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a
> resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO
> OHMS is what you are looking for.
> After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over
> the external screw heads sealing off moisture.
> As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the
> manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV.
> I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one
>> standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT.
>> I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The
>> real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the
>> fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the
>> desired one meter separation between all antennae.
>> My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer
>> paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting
>> screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of
>> course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna.
>> Thanks
>> Stan Sutterfield
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://goo.gl/skAS8R
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
I have seen these referred to as "relay terminals." I think they might be
categorized that way on Mouser.
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that
> I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45
> years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. :-) Similar products I
> found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me
> question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and
> corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you
> need a dedicated crimper for those.
>
> Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs
> indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a
> standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the
> wire leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming
> off, regardless of the 'latch' feature.
>
> FWIW...
>
> Charlie
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraft
>> spruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
>> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to
>> keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
Excellent info.
Thanks to everyone.
Stan Sutterfield
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479989#479989
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
Sebastien:
So, how does my instructions differ from the manufactures?
>From your re-post of there instructions their very first line states: "Th
e
electrical bonding of the antenna to the aircraft ground is highly
important." Electrical Bonding!
Of course the good physical bonding is done by the four (4) mounting screws
.
What you have to realize the Manufacture is ONLY interested in THEIR part
and involvement and will tell you what is in their extreme in covering
their ars! They don't care about your paint job! Also, many of the
mounting bases come with a rubber gasket to keep moisture out. So, what
happens to the BARE aluminum under the rubber gasket? Or better yet, what
happens to the electrical bonding under the gasket?
The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Nothing electrical!!!
Nothing since the electrical ground bonding happens at the screw holes.
NOW! Let's talk a composite plane... There you have to make a Ground
Plane. But, that is accomplished by a metal plate UNDER, which can be
considered INSIDE the skin of the plane.
SO! How does that differ from leaving the paint ON the plane,
counter-boring the INSULATED screws holes on the antenna - Making the
screws contact the skin by screwing snugly through the skin
and finishing with a doubler, washers, star-washers and a locking nut?
Oh, notice on the Manufacture's instructions they use a counter-sink
washer?
What is that washer made of? Steel.
Why do they use the counter-sink washer? To cut into the paint/power
coating.
What happens when you mix Steel, Aluminum and Stainless Steel and Water?
Corrosion. Add a little SOAP and/or SALT and you have Galvanic Action.
What else happens when you have the SPACE between the Screw and the
Antenna? You just created an access point for the elements.
Take a look at older planes on the flightline. You will notice the BASE of
the antennas; the paint/powder coating is peeling up?
What do you think caused that? Read all above.
Also, the Manufacture's last capitalized line reads: CLEAN METAL SURFACE
FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION
and is repeated again with RED underlining.
It does NOT say the entire area under the antenna.
Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
> Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to large.
> Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger can do so
at
> their end.
>
> As for antenna grounding, I would stick with the manufacturer's
> instructions. For example:
>
> From COMANT
>
> Aircraft Skin Surface and Mounting Preparation
> The electrical bonding of the antenna to the aircraft ground is highly
> important. If this is not done properly, antenna performance
> characteristics may become distorted and nulls may appear in the antenna
> radiation pattern. This, in turn, may cause erratic navigational readings
> or signal drop out. The electrical bonding of the antennas to the aircraf
t
> skin is best accomplished by direct *metal-to metal contact of the
> antenna base to the aircraft skin*. To accomplish this, *the aircraft
> paint in the mounting area will need to be removed* and the surface
> alodined to protect aluminum against corrosion. An alternate method for
> providing electrical bonding is through the mounting screws, which attach
> to a backing plate inside the aircraft skin. Remove any interior paint in
> the area where the backing plate is placed to assure a good ground. Coat
> this area with alodine to minimize corrosion. To test the electrical
> bonding of the blade to the aircraft, a reading of .003 ohms between the
> antenna base plate and ground should be achieved.
>
> From RAMI
>
> CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION
>
>
> =8B
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 8:00 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure who asked the question...
>>
>> You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane.
>> You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the
>> plane to create a Ground Plane.
>> I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which
>> reduces/elininates the electrical contact area.
>> My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a
>> good electrical ground connection with the Screws.
>> To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do
>> this with a 100 deg counter-sink tool.
>> The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a
>> nice small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the ski
n.
>> As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer?
>> Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT
>> the entire area.
>> Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in
>> color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation.
>> Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again,
>> you only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/l
ock
>> washer.
>> You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a
>> resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO
>> OHMS is what you are looking for.
>> After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over
>> the external screw heads sealing off moisture.
>> As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the
>> manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV.
>> I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>>>
>>> I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one
>>> standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT.
>>> I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The
>>> real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the
>>> fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the
>>> desired one meter separation between all antennae.
>>> My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer
>>> paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting
>>> screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of
>>> course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna.
>>> Thanks
>>> Stan Sutterfield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/skAS8R
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>
>>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
Yes the tin plated version works well in many nylon shells for relays
and even older ND alternators.
In the past I've purchased as few as 10 at a time from digi-key.
Where feasible I prefer to toss the nylon shell and use PIDG connectors
which I find easier to satisfactorily crimp. especially with the thin
insulation on milspec wire.
Ken
On 09/05/2018 1:47 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> I have seen these referred to as "relay terminals." I think they might
> be categorized that way on Mouser.
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box
> somewhere that I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't
> know better, about 45 years ago. I have no desire to locate them
> again. :-) Similar products I found talk about 'low insertion
> force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me question whether they
> will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and corrosion if they
> remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you need a
> dedicated crimper for those.
>
> Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs
> indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can
> slip a standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you
> properly support the wire leaving the widget, there's an
> unmeasurably small risk of one coming off, regardless of the
> 'latch' feature.
>
> FWIW...
>
> Charlie
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name
> <mailto:art@zemon.name>> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals?
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php>
> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the
> bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
> myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
>
>
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
Barry has the technique correct. I don't know why Comant even recites
the paint removal method. Removing aircraft exterior paint for grounding
is just asking for corrosion. Read their alternate method included in
your quote.
Normally one fabricates a doubler plate to go on the inside of the skin.
Nutplates are riveted to the doubler. You can scuff the inside skin for
grounding, or you can just use 4-6 rivets to flush rivet the doubler to
the aircraft skin. Either way, the ground path is through the screws and
the doubler should make good ground contact to the screws and the airframe.
That is the technique I used for both of the CI-122s I have on my RV,
and get excellent reception and no complaints on transmit.
Kelly
A&P/IA
On 5/9/2018 9:54 AM, Sebastien wrote:
> Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to
> large. Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger
> can do so at their end.
>
> As for antenna grounding, I would stick with the manufacturer's
> instructions. For example:
>
> From COMANT
>
> An alternate
> method for providing electrical bonding is through the mounting screws,
> which attach to a backing plate inside the aircraft skin. Remove any
> interior paint in the area where the backing plate is placed to assure a
> good ground. Coat this area with alodine to minimize corrosion. To test
> the electrical bonding of the blade to the aircraft, a reading of .003
> ohms between the antenna base plate and ground should be achieved.
>
> From RAMI
>
> CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION
>
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Bus bar materials |
>
>That's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum.
>
>When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric
>grease like this:=C2
><https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-Grade-Dielectric-Grease-
05113/206843029>https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-Grade-Diel
ectric-Grease-05113/206843029
>?
I checked the SDS on this stuff . . . it's a very
close cousin to the Dow Corning product I mentioned.
It would be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? |
What did you have charging this battery, Allan?=C2- What sort of environm
ent did it live in?Like any other technology, these batteries have their be
nefits and caveats.=C2- Without more information, it is as easy to say, "
Allan didn't install it properly" as it is to say "Shorai sux!"
Two thing that are on the short list of not to do with a lithium battery:1)
Install in a high temp environment.2) Charge with a source that produces s
pikes larger than 16V.
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:07 PM, Allan Aaron <aaaron@tvp.com.au> wrote:
For what its worth, I had a Shorai, lasted 6 months of light duty use then
started bulging and died.=C2- Since it failed more than 12 months after p
urchase, the vendor would not replace it.=C2- I bought an EarthX and it h
as been great. I wouldn't touch another Shorai.=C2-
Allan
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
Art:
I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific
specs?
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all
different practices.
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current
practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are
experimental.
Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.
> aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to
> keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Bus bar materials |
At 09:34 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote:
>Art:
>
>The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of
>Dielectric Grease.
We're talking different materials that serve
two different purposes. There are useful materials to
add to joints in rigid components common to high
power technologies like submarines, sub-stations
etc. These not only exclude moisture, they contain
electrically conductive enhancements for crossing
voids that cannot be closed with tension in the
bolts.
Then there are treatments intended to fill tiny gaps
between mated surfaces to prevent ingress of water/oxygen
that progressively degrades the joint. I have a tube
of Dow Corning DC4 that has lasted about 40 years
. . . it doesn't take much. It's used to thinly coat
mating surfaces of DUCTILE terminals. Any DC4 caught
in the squash on the two metals is simply extruded out.
But the tiniest voids in the interface will remain
completely filled with DC4. Other, non-reactive
materials would work too. Axle grease is better
than nothing. The CRC product cited is good.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
>Also, the Manufacture's last capitalized=C2 line
>reads:=C2 CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION
>and is repeated again with RED underlining.
>It does NOT say the entire area under the antenna.
Which is what the 'bonding circles' around
the screw holes are about along with maximizing
compression of the various layers at each
joint. These make up gas-tight interfaces that
will repel oxygen/moisture. Again, another good
place for a bit of DC-4 around the hole before
bolting the antenna down.
Our readers don't have bonding meters and have
generally done well without them. I used to
offer one and we did sell about a dozen . . .
https://goo.gl/1X6S6b
They're based on this article I did originally for
Raytheon-Beech field techs.
https://goo.gl/grXUex
To be sure, tens of thousands of antennas have
been installed with the gaskets . . . but if
you're interested in MAINTAINING mate up
forces in the mounting bolts, sticking any
'squishy' stuff in the gap tends to degrade
those forces with age.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What=99s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?
On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific spe
cs?
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different
practices.
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current prac
tice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimen
tal.
Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.c
om/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to k
eep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
some form of plastic housing that mates with other
devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
back is to retain the terminal in its housing.
>[]
>
>
These terminals do have both wire-grip and insulation
support. On the downside, they are not plated hence
prone to corrosion. If the terminals you're considering
are made by AMP or similar source, they're probably
a suitable alloy.
Terminals of unknown pedigree may be thinner/softer
which risks compromising the gas-tight interface with
the mating tab.
https://goo.gl/8hZ2ep
These are, of course, applied with b-crimp tools
as described.
https://goo.gl/RJuZOf
The AMP PIDG series of fast-on tabs have a
stellar track record for fast-on interconnections.
Further, they install with ratchet handled
tooling. I'd sure stick with PIDG unless there's
a compelling reason to do otherwise.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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Subject: | Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? |
SSBoYXZlIG15IGJhdHRlcnkgbW91bnRlZCBvbiBteSBTYWZhcmkgaGVsaWNvcHRlci4gIEl0cyBv
dXRzaWRlIG5lYXIgdGhlIGVuZ2luZSAobHljb21pbmcgTzMyMCkgd2l0aCBhIEImQyBhbHRlcm5h
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bGFuDQoNCg=
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Bus bar materials |
Bob,
Thanks for the info. I will opt for the CRC from the local Home Depot
instead of paying shipping for DC4.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:34 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote:
>
> Art:
>
> The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of Dielectric
> Grease.
>
>
> We're talking different materials that serve
> two different purposes. There are useful materials to
> add to joints in rigid components common to high
> power technologies like submarines, sub-stations
> etc. These not only exclude moisture, they contain
> electrically conductive enhancements for crossing
> voids that cannot be closed with tension in the
> bolts.
>
> Then there are treatments intended to fill tiny gaps
> between mated surfaces to prevent ingress of water/oxygen
> that progressively degrades the joint. I have a tube
> of Dow Corning DC4 that has lasted about 40 years
> . . . it doesn't take much. It's used to thinly coat
> mating surfaces of DUCTILE terminals. Any DC4 caught
> in the squash on the two metals is simply extruded out.
> But the tiniest voids in the interface will remain
> completely filled with DC4. Other, non-reactive
> materials would work too. Axle grease is better
> than nothing. The CRC product cited is good.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches.
There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors,
making installation behind a panel much easier.
I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway Electronics)
and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if only he could
find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After I send this
email, I will resume my search.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
> some form of plastic housing that mates with other
> devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
> back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
> back is to retain the terminal in its housing.
>
>
> [image: []]
>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
Ahhh! Finally found them at Digi-Key:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42282-1/A113676-ND/293293
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches.
> There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors,
> making installation behind a panel much easier.
>
> I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway
> Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if
> only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After
> I send this email, I will resume my search.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
>> some form of plastic housing that mates with other
>> devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
>> back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
>> back is to retain the terminal in its housing.
>>
>>
>> [image: []]
>>
>>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
I found them on Mouser but I think you have to buy a roll of 10,000.
Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve.
On Wed, May 9, 2018, 18:31 Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches.
> There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors,
> making installation behind a panel much easier.
>
> I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway
> Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if
> only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After
> I send this email, I will resume my search.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
>> some form of plastic housing that mates with other
>> devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
>> back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
>> back is to retain the terminal in its housing.
>>
>>
>> [image: []]
>>
>>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Firewall Power Lug |
Hi
I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS
What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480013#480013
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Firewall Power Lug |
Why not just run your cable through a grommet in the firewall?
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
On Wed, May 9, 2018, 10:02 PM kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS
>
> What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least
> fire resistance.
>
> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: TyWraps redux |
FWF I used a lot of flat lace along with some adel clamps and I'm really
happy with the way it turned out. I have some pictures here:
http://www.rv8.ch/fwf-wiring-photos/
I also did some testing with a good heat gun on the lace to make sure that
I understood how it would behave if it got really hot - I was impressed.
It basically didn't seem to care, and I could not get it to melt or change
state in any way with the heat gun that will cause Tefzel wiring to finally
melt and smoke.
In parallel, I bought some Nomex lace, which also does not care about
getting cooked by a heat gun, and will probably add this next to the normal
lace in places that might be exposed to additional heat from the exhaust
pipes. Will give some feedback in a few years when I'm finally flying. :)
Not sure why, but working with the lace was very satisfying.
Mickey Coggins
On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 18:14, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good point Bob...
>
> In general BLACK Ty-Wraps are UV and Ozone proof. The white ones become
> brittle with time and exposure.
> SOME - not all colored Ty-Wraps may also work.
>
> One might even find notes on the Ty-Wrap packaging as to UV & Ozone
> resistant.
>
> Barry
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution
>> for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on
>> these products about ten years back . . .
>>
>> In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks
>> of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with
>> age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process
>> of applying the wrap.
>>
>> Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved
>> over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its
>> close cousins have found their way into all manner of component,
>> many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles.
>>
>> When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even
>> a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor
>> Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but
>> some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors.
>>
>> All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes
>> in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold
>> years and were literally falling apart.
>>
>> My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied
>> like so . . .
>>
>> https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ
>>
>> Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was
>> installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had
>> laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the
>> roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the
>> TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years
>> but I'm betting the string will still be on duty.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>> ===================================
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ===================================
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>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
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>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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