---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/09/18: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:02 AM - Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Jeff Page) 2. 08:55 AM - Re: TyWraps redux (FLYaDIVE) 3. 08:55 AM - Re: Bus bar materials (FLYaDIVE) 4. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire (Alec Myers) 6. 09:15 AM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Charlie England) 7. 09:15 AM - Re: New Antennae (FLYaDIVE) 8. 09:56 AM - Re: New Antennae (Sebastien) 9. 10:49 AM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Ken Ryan) 10. 11:46 AM - Re: New Antennae (speedy11) 11. 12:15 PM - Re: New Antennae (FLYaDIVE) 12. 01:00 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (C&K) 13. 01:39 PM - Re: New Antennae (Kelly McMullen) 14. 02:06 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 02:07 PM - Re: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? (Ernest Christley) 16. 02:12 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (FLYaDIVE) 17. 02:28 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 02:29 PM - Re: New Antennae (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 02:41 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Alec Myers) 20. 03:24 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 04:35 PM - Re: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? (Allan Aaron) 22. 07:19 PM - Re: Bus bar materials (Art Zemon) 23. 07:26 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Art Zemon) 24. 07:33 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Art Zemon) 25. 07:47 PM - Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals (Ken Ryan) 26. 07:49 PM - Firewall Power Lug (kearney) 27. 08:11 PM - Re: Firewall Power Lug (Art Zemon) 28. 11:16 PM - Re: TyWraps redux (Mickey Coggins) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:20 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire Bob, In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$. As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ? Thanks, Jeff > Time: 01:58:27 PM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire > > At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: >> >> AeroElectic Wizards: >> >> I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on >> the yoke of my Cessna 172. >> This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs >> behind the instrument panel to the intercom. >> >> I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink. >> >> The log book entry needs to read something like: >> Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide. > > There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that > don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described > have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship, > I wouldn't bother to record it. > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:53 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TyWraps redux Good point Bob... In general BLACK Ty-Wraps are UV and Ozone proof. The white ones become brittle with time and exposure. SOME - not all colored Ty-Wraps may also work. One might even find notes on the Ty-Wrap packaging as to UV & Ozone resistant. Barry On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > > In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution > for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on > these products about ten years back . . . > > In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks > of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with > age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process > of applying the wrap. > > Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved > over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its > close cousins have found their way into all manner of component, > many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles. > > When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even > a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor > Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but > some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors. > > All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes > in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold > years and were literally falling apart. > > My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied > like so . . . > > https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ > > Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was > installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had > laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the > roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the > TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years > but I'm betting the string will still be on duty. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:53 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus bar materials Art: The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of Dielectric Grease. It is a CONDUCTOR grease which usually has very fine copper or silver dust in it. I doubt if silver is available today as the cost would be ridiculously high .. It can be obtained at industrial electrical supply houses. It is used on 'BUGS' for high voltage and high current connections in the industrial electronic world. It also works GREAT on Aluminum to Aluminum connections such as sliding tubes of antennas. https://www.voltlighting.com/outdoor-landscape-lighting-grease/p/VAC-GREASE 1?gdffi=011cd79751a042aeb028091a0a1ac126&gdfms=37FE4BE861D045F3BD53FEFE 586CE951&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&scid=scplpVAC-G REASE1&sc_intid=VAC-GREASE1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1M77sOr42gIVSwSRCh11BAXwE AQYASABEgLKkfD_BwE BUT! An easy trick would be to make your CLEAN bolt together connection and then spray it with chromate paint. If you keep the moisture AND oxygen off the connection you reduce the chance of corrosion GREATLY! Barry On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:13 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet >> with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a >> whole lot easier to drill! >> > =8B > Bob=8B, > > =8BThat's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum. =8B > > When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric grease like this: > https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician- > Grade-Dielectric-Grease-05113/206843029 ? > > -- Art Z. > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha t > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire At 02:00 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote: > >Bob, > >In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing >off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list >of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just >inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$. > >As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of >splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is >commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ? They haven't gotten around to that yet . . . but probably will. When not specifically covered in AC43-13 it may suffice to say, "Spliced and insulated wires per shop practice." Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:39 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Authority to solder splice a wire Jeff Refer to paragraph 19.4 of NASA technical standard NASA-STD 8739.4A, WORKMANSHIP STANDARD FOR CRIMPING, INTERCONNECTING CABLES, HARNESSES, AND WIRING That should be acceptable to the Minister. On May 9, 2018, at 03:00, Jeff Page wrote: Bob, In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$. As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ? Thanks, Jeff > Time: 01:58:27 PM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire > > At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: >> >> AeroElectic Wizards: >> >> I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on >> the yoke of my Cessna 172. >> This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs >> behind the instrument panel to the intercom. >> >> I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink. >> >> The log book entry needs to read something like: >> Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide. > > There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that > don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described > have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship, > I wouldn't bother to record it. > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:41 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45 years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. :-) Similar products I found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you need a dedicated crimper for those. Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the wire leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming off, regardless of the 'latch' feature. FWIW... Charlie On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www. > aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php > They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to > keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing. > > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:42 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae I'm not sure who asked the question... You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane. You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the plane to create a Ground Plane. I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which reduces/elininates the electrical contact area. My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a good electrical ground connection with the Screws. To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do this with a 100 deg counter-sink tool. The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a nice small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the skin. As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer? Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT the entire area. Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation. Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again, you only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/lock washer. You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO OHMS is what you are looking for. After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over the external screw heads sealing off moisture. As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV. I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket. Barry On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: > > I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one > standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT. > I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The > real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the > fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the > desired one meter separation between all antennae. > My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer > paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting > screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of > course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna. > Thanks > Stan Sutterfield > > > https://goo.gl/skAS8R > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:36 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to large. Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger can do so at their end. As for antenna grounding, I would stick with the manufacturer's instructions. For example: >From COMANT Aircraft Skin Surface and Mounting Preparation The electrical bonding of the antenna to the aircraft ground is highly important. If this is not done properly, antenna performance characteristics may become distorted and nulls may appear in the antenna radiation pattern. This, in turn, may cause erratic navigational readings or signal drop out. The electrical bonding of the antennas to the aircraft skin is best accomplished by direct *metal-to metal contact of the antenna base to the aircraft skin*. To accomplish this, *the aircraft paint in the mounting area will need to be removed* and the surface alodined to protect aluminum against corrosion. An alternate method for providing electrical bonding is through the mounting screws, which attach to a backing plate inside the aircraft skin. Remove any interior paint in the area where the backing plate is placed to assure a good ground. Coat this area with alodine to minimize corrosion. To test the electrical bonding of the blade to the aircraft, a reading of .003 ohms between the antenna base plate and ground should be achieved. >From RAMI CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION =8B On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 8:00 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > I'm not sure who asked the question... > > You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane. > You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the plan e > to create a Ground Plane. > I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which > reduces/elininates the electrical contact area. > My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a > good electrical ground connection with the Screws. > To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do thi s > with a 100 deg counter-sink tool. > The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a nic e > small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the skin. > As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer? > Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT th e > entire area. > Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in > color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation. > Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again, > you only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/lo ck > washer. > You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a > resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO > OHMS is what you are looking for. > After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over > the external screw heads sealing off moisture. > As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the > manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV. > I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket. > > Barry > > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: >> >> I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one >> standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT. >> I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The >> real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the >> fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the >> desired one meter separation between all antennae. >> My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer >> paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting >> screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of >> course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna. >> Thanks >> Stan Sutterfield >> >> >> >> >> https://goo.gl/skAS8R >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:30 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals I have seen these referred to as "relay terminals." I think they might be categorized that way on Mouser. On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Charlie England wrote: > I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that > I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45 > years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. :-) Similar products I > found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me > question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and > corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you > need a dedicated crimper for those. > > Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs > indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a > standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the > wire leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming > off, regardless of the 'latch' feature. > > FWIW... > > Charlie > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraft >> spruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php >> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to >> keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing. >> >> >> Thanks, >> -- Art Z. >> >> -- >> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ >> >> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, >> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: New Antennae From: "speedy11" Excellent info. Thanks to everyone. Stan Sutterfield Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479989#479989 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:49 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae Sebastien: So, how does my instructions differ from the manufactures? >From your re-post of there instructions their very first line states: "Th e electrical bonding of the antenna to the aircraft ground is highly important." Electrical Bonding! Of course the good physical bonding is done by the four (4) mounting screws .. What you have to realize the Manufacture is ONLY interested in THEIR part and involvement and will tell you what is in their extreme in covering their ars! They don't care about your paint job! Also, many of the mounting bases come with a rubber gasket to keep moisture out. So, what happens to the BARE aluminum under the rubber gasket? Or better yet, what happens to the electrical bonding under the gasket? The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Nothing electrical!!! Nothing since the electrical ground bonding happens at the screw holes. NOW! Let's talk a composite plane... There you have to make a Ground Plane. But, that is accomplished by a metal plate UNDER, which can be considered INSIDE the skin of the plane. SO! How does that differ from leaving the paint ON the plane, counter-boring the INSULATED screws holes on the antenna - Making the screws contact the skin by screwing snugly through the skin and finishing with a doubler, washers, star-washers and a locking nut? Oh, notice on the Manufacture's instructions they use a counter-sink washer? What is that washer made of? Steel. Why do they use the counter-sink washer? To cut into the paint/power coating. What happens when you mix Steel, Aluminum and Stainless Steel and Water? Corrosion. Add a little SOAP and/or SALT and you have Galvanic Action. What else happens when you have the SPACE between the Screw and the Antenna? You just created an access point for the elements. Take a look at older planes on the flightline. You will notice the BASE of the antennas; the paint/powder coating is peeling up? What do you think caused that? Read all above. Also, the Manufacture's last capitalized line reads: CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION and is repeated again with RED underlining. It does NOT say the entire area under the antenna. Barry On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Sebastien wrote: > Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to large. > Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger can do so at > their end. > > As for antenna grounding, I would stick with the manufacturer's > instructions. For example: > > From COMANT > > Aircraft Skin Surface and Mounting Preparation > The electrical bonding of the antenna to the aircraft ground is highly > important. If this is not done properly, antenna performance > characteristics may become distorted and nulls may appear in the antenna > radiation pattern. This, in turn, may cause erratic navigational readings > or signal drop out. The electrical bonding of the antennas to the aircraf t > skin is best accomplished by direct *metal-to metal contact of the > antenna base to the aircraft skin*. To accomplish this, *the aircraft > paint in the mounting area will need to be removed* and the surface > alodined to protect aluminum against corrosion. An alternate method for > providing electrical bonding is through the mounting screws, which attach > to a backing plate inside the aircraft skin. Remove any interior paint in > the area where the backing plate is placed to assure a good ground. Coat > this area with alodine to minimize corrosion. To test the electrical > bonding of the blade to the aircraft, a reading of .003 ohms between the > antenna base plate and ground should be achieved. > > From RAMI > > CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION > > > =8B > > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 8:00 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > >> I'm not sure who asked the question... >> >> You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane. >> You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the >> plane to create a Ground Plane. >> I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which >> reduces/elininates the electrical contact area. >> My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a >> good electrical ground connection with the Screws. >> To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do >> this with a 100 deg counter-sink tool. >> The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a >> nice small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the ski n. >> As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer? >> Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT >> the entire area. >> Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in >> color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation. >> Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again, >> you only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/l ock >> washer. >> You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a >> resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO >> OHMS is what you are looking for. >> After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over >> the external screw heads sealing off moisture. >> As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the >> manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV. >> I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket. >> >> Barry >> >> >> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote: >>> >>> I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one >>> standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT. >>> I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The >>> real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the >>> fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the >>> desired one meter separation between all antennae. >>> My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer >>> paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting >>> screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of >>> course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna. >>> Thanks >>> Stan Sutterfield >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://goo.gl/skAS8R >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals From: C&K Yes the tin plated version works well in many nylon shells for relays and even older ND alternators. In the past I've purchased as few as 10 at a time from digi-key. Where feasible I prefer to toss the nylon shell and use PIDG connectors which I find easier to satisfactorily crimp. especially with the thin insulation on milspec wire. Ken On 09/05/2018 1:47 PM, Ken Ryan wrote: > I have seen these referred to as "relay terminals." I think they might > be categorized that way on Mouser. > > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Charlie England > wrote: > > I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box > somewhere that I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't > know better, about 45 years ago. I have no desire to locate them > again. :-) Similar products I found talk about 'low insertion > force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me question whether they > will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and corrosion if they > remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you need a > dedicated crimper for those. > > Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs > indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can > slip a standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you > properly support the wire leaving the widget, there's an > unmeasurably small risk of one coming off, regardless of the > 'latch' feature. > > FWIW... > > Charlie > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon > wrote: > > Folks, > > Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php > > They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the > bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing. > > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for > myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/ > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae From: Kelly McMullen Barry has the technique correct. I don't know why Comant even recites the paint removal method. Removing aircraft exterior paint for grounding is just asking for corrosion. Read their alternate method included in your quote. Normally one fabricates a doubler plate to go on the inside of the skin. Nutplates are riveted to the doubler. You can scuff the inside skin for grounding, or you can just use 4-6 rivets to flush rivet the doubler to the aircraft skin. Either way, the ground path is through the screws and the doubler should make good ground contact to the screws and the airframe. That is the technique I used for both of the CI-122s I have on my RV, and get excellent reception and no complaints on transmit. Kelly A&P/IA On 5/9/2018 9:54 AM, Sebastien wrote: > Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to > large. Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger > can do so at their end. > > As for antenna grounding, I would stick with the manufacturer's > instructions. For example: > > From COMANT > > An alternate > method for providing electrical bonding is through the mounting screws, > which attach to a backing plate inside the aircraft skin. Remove any > interior paint in the area where the backing plate is placed to assure a > good ground. Coat this area with alodine to minimize corrosion. To test > the electrical bonding of the blade to the aircraft, a reading of .003 > ohms between the antenna base plate and ground should be achieved. > > From RAMI > > CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:52 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus bar materials > >That's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum. > >When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric >grease like this:=C2 >https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-Grade-Diel ectric-Grease-05113/206843029 >? I checked the SDS on this stuff . . . it's a very close cousin to the Dow Corning product I mentioned. It would be fine. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:24 PM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? What did you have charging this battery, Allan?=C2- What sort of environm ent did it live in?Like any other technology, these batteries have their be nefits and caveats.=C2- Without more information, it is as easy to say, " Allan didn't install it properly" as it is to say "Shorai sux!" Two thing that are on the short list of not to do with a lithium battery:1) Install in a high temp environment.2) Charge with a source that produces s pikes larger than 16V. On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:07 PM, Allan Aaron wrote: For what its worth, I had a Shorai, lasted 6 months of light duty use then started bulging and died.=C2- Since it failed more than 12 months after p urchase, the vendor would not replace it.=C2- I bought an EarthX and it h as been great. I wouldn't touch another Shorai.=C2- Allan ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:54 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Art: I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific specs? As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices. But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice. Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues... Sharp Edges UN-INSULATED Grip Support of the wire insulation. No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec. Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental. Why would you want to use something from the dark ages? Barry On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www. > aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php > They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to > keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing. > > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:07 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus bar materials At 09:34 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote: >Art: > >The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of >Dielectric Grease. We're talking different materials that serve two different purposes. There are useful materials to add to joints in rigid components common to high power technologies like submarines, sub-stations etc. These not only exclude moisture, they contain electrically conductive enhancements for crossing voids that cannot be closed with tension in the bolts. Then there are treatments intended to fill tiny gaps between mated surfaces to prevent ingress of water/oxygen that progressively degrades the joint. I have a tube of Dow Corning DC4 that has lasted about 40 years . . . it doesn't take much. It's used to thinly coat mating surfaces of DUCTILE terminals. Any DC4 caught in the squash on the two metals is simply extruded out. But the tiniest voids in the interface will remain completely filled with DC4. Other, non-reactive materials would work too. Axle grease is better than nothing. The CRC product cited is good. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Antennae >Also, the Manufacture's last capitalized=C2 line >reads:=C2 CLEAN METAL SURFACE FOR GOOD GROUND CONNECTION >and is repeated again with RED underlining. >It does NOT say the entire area under the antenna. Which is what the 'bonding circles' around the screw holes are about along with maximizing compression of the various layers at each joint. These make up gas-tight interfaces that will repel oxygen/moisture. Again, another good place for a bit of DC-4 around the hole before bolting the antenna down. Our readers don't have bonding meters and have generally done well without them. I used to offer one and we did sell about a dozen . . . https://goo.gl/1X6S6b They're based on this article I did originally for Raytheon-Beech field techs. https://goo.gl/grXUex To be sure, tens of thousands of antennas have been installed with the gaskets . . . but if you're interested in MAINTAINING mate up forces in the mounting bolts, sticking any 'squishy' stuff in the gap tends to degrade those forces with age. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:33 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals educate me.... why is uninsulated bad? What=99s the problem with the wrapover insulation support? On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE wrote: Art: I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific spe cs? As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices. But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current prac tice. Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues... Sharp Edges UN-INSULATED Grip Support of the wire insulation. No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec. Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimen tal. Why would you want to use something from the dark ages? Barry > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.c om/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php > They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to k eep them from slipping out of a plastic housing. > > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:29 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals These particular terminals are used in conjunction with some form of plastic housing that mates with other devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the back is to retain the terminal in its housing. >[] > > These terminals do have both wire-grip and insulation support. On the downside, they are not plated hence prone to corrosion. If the terminals you're considering are made by AMP or similar source, they're probably a suitable alloy. Terminals of unknown pedigree may be thinner/softer which risks compromising the gas-tight interface with the mating tab. https://goo.gl/8hZ2ep These are, of course, applied with b-crimp tools as described. https://goo.gl/RJuZOf The AMP PIDG series of fast-on tabs have a stellar track record for fast-on interconnections. Further, they install with ratchet handled tooling. I'd sure stick with PIDG unless there's a compelling reason to do otherwise. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:23 PM PST US From: Allan Aaron Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? SSBoYXZlIG15IGJhdHRlcnkgbW91bnRlZCBvbiBteSBTYWZhcmkgaGVsaWNvcHRlci4gIEl0cyBv dXRzaWRlIG5lYXIgdGhlIGVuZ2luZSAobHljb21pbmcgTzMyMCkgd2l0aCBhIEImQyBhbHRlcm5h dG9yLiAgQWxsIEkgY2FuIHRlbGwgeW91IGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgc2F0IGZvciBhcm91bmQgNiBtb250 aHMgd2hpbGUgSSB3YXMgZmluaXNoaW5nIHRoZSBoZWxpIG9mZiB0aGVuIGxpZ2h0bHkgdXNlZCBm b3IgYW5vdGhlciA2IG1vbnRocyBiZWZvcmUgaXQgZmFpbGVkLiAgSSByZXBsYWNlZCBpdCB3aXRo IGFuIEVhcnRoWCAoZHJvcCBpbiByZXBsYWNlbWVudCkgYW5kIHRoYXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gcGVyZm9y bWluZyBncmVhdCBmb3IgdGhlIHBhc3QgMTggbW9udGhzLiAgU29ycnksIGNhbuKAmXQgZ2l2ZSB5 b3UgbXVjaCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gdGhhdC4gRXhjZXB0LCBJIHdvdWxkbuKAmXQgdXNlIGFub3RoZXIg U2hvcmFpIGlmIHlvdSBnYXZlIGl0IHRvIG1lLg0KQ2hlZXJzDQpBbGxhbg0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25l ci1hZXJvZWxlY3RyaWMtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSA8b3duZXItYWVyb2VsZWN0 cmljLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBFcm5lc3QgQ2hyaXN0 bGV5DQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgMTAgTWF5IDIwMTggNzowNiBBTQ0KVG86IGFlcm9lbGVjdHJp Yy1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdDogQW55 Ym9keSB1c2luZyBTaG9yYWkgYmF0dGVyaWVzL0JNUz8NCg0KV2hhdCBkaWQgeW91IGhhdmUgY2hh cmdpbmcgdGhpcyBiYXR0ZXJ5LCBBbGxhbj8gIFdoYXQgc29ydCBvZiBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCBkaWQg aXQgbGl2ZSBpbj8NCkxpa2UgYW55IG90aGVyIHRlY2hub2xvZ3ksIHRoZXNlIGJhdHRlcmllcyBo YXZlIHRoZWlyIGJlbmVmaXRzIGFuZCBjYXZlYXRzLiAgV2l0aG91dCBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9u LCBpdCBpcyBhcyBlYXN5IHRvIHNheSwgIkFsbGFuIGRpZG4ndCBpbnN0YWxsIGl0IHByb3Blcmx5 IiBhcyBpdCBpcyB0byBzYXkgIlNob3JhaSBzdXghIg0KDQpUd28gdGhpbmcgdGhhdCBhcmUgb24g dGhlIHNob3J0IGxpc3Qgb2Ygbm90IHRvIGRvIHdpdGggYSBsaXRoaXVtIGJhdHRlcnk6DQoxKSBJ bnN0YWxsIGluIGEgaGlnaCB0ZW1wIGVudmlyb25tZW50Lg0KMikgQ2hhcmdlIHdpdGggYSBzb3Vy Y2UgdGhhdCBwcm9kdWNlcyBzcGlrZXMgbGFyZ2VyIHRoYW4gMTZWLg0KDQpPbiBUdWVzZGF5LCBN YXkgOCwgMjAxOCA4OjA3IFBNLCBBbGxhbiBBYXJvbiA8YWFhcm9uQHR2cC5jb20uYXU8bWFpbHRv OmFhYXJvbkB0dnAuY29tLmF1Pj4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCi0tPiBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdCBtZXNz YWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogQWxsYW4gQWFyb24gPGFhYXJvbkB0dnAuY29tLmF1PG1haWx0bzphYWFy b25AdHZwLmNvbS5hdT4+DQoNCkZvciB3aGF0IGl0cyB3b3J0aCwgSSBoYWQgYSBTaG9yYWksIGxh c3RlZCA2IG1vbnRocyBvZiBsaWdodCBkdXR5IHVzZSB0aGVuIHN0YXJ0ZWQgYnVsZ2luZyBhbmQg ZGllZC4gIFNpbmNlIGl0IGZhaWxlZCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gMTIgbW9udGhzIGFmdGVyIHB1cmNoYXNl LCB0aGUgdmVuZG9yIHdvdWxkIG5vdCByZXBsYWNlIGl0LiAgSSBib3VnaHQgYW4gRWFydGhYIGFu ZCBpdCBoYXMgYmVlbiBncmVhdC4gSSB3b3VsZG4ndCB0b3VjaCBhbm90aGVyIFNob3JhaS4NCkFs bGFuDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:26 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus bar materials Bob, Thanks for the info. I will opt for the CRC from the local Home Depot instead of paying shipping for DC4. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:34 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote: > > Art: > > The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of Dielectric > Grease. > > > We're talking different materials that serve > two different purposes. There are useful materials to > add to joints in rigid components common to high > power technologies like submarines, sub-stations > etc. These not only exclude moisture, they contain > electrically conductive enhancements for crossing > voids that cannot be closed with tension in the > bolts. > > Then there are treatments intended to fill tiny gaps > between mated surfaces to prevent ingress of water/oxygen > that progressively degrades the joint. I have a tube > of Dow Corning DC4 that has lasted about 40 years > . . . it doesn't take much. It's used to thinly coat > mating surfaces of DUCTILE terminals. Any DC4 caught > in the squash on the two metals is simply extruded out. > But the tiniest voids in the interface will remain > completely filled with DC4. Other, non-reactive > materials would work too. Axle grease is better > than nothing. The CRC product cited is good. > > > Bob . . . > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:52 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches. There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors, making installation behind a panel much easier. I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After I send this email, I will resume my search. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > These particular terminals are used in conjunction with > some form of plastic housing that mates with other > devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the > back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the > back is to retain the terminal in its housing. > > > [image: []] > > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:30 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Ahhh! Finally found them at Digi-Key: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42282-1/A113676-ND/293293 Cheers, -- Art Z. On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches. > There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors, > making installation behind a panel much easier. > > I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway > Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if > only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After > I send this email, I will resume my search. > > Cheers, > -- Art Z. > > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> These particular terminals are used in conjunction with >> some form of plastic housing that mates with other >> devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the >> back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the >> back is to retain the terminal in its housing. >> >> >> [image: []] >> >> > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:18 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals I found them on Mouser but I think you have to buy a roll of 10,000. Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. On Wed, May 9, 2018, 18:31 Art Zemon wrote: > That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches. > There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors, > making installation behind a panel much easier. > > I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway > Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if > only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After > I send this email, I will resume my search. > > Cheers, > -- Art Z. > > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> These particular terminals are used in conjunction with >> some form of plastic housing that mates with other >> devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the >> back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the >> back is to retain the terminal in its housing. >> >> >> [image: []] >> >> > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:43 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Power Lug From: "kearney" Hi I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Cheers Les Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480013#480013 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:37 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Power Lug Why not just run your cable through a grommet in the firewall? -- Art Z. Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos. On Wed, May 9, 2018, 10:02 PM kearney wrote: > > Hi > > I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this: > > > https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS > > What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least > fire resistance. > > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Cheers > > Les > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:09 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TyWraps redux FWF I used a lot of flat lace along with some adel clamps and I'm really happy with the way it turned out. I have some pictures here: http://www.rv8.ch/fwf-wiring-photos/ I also did some testing with a good heat gun on the lace to make sure that I understood how it would behave if it got really hot - I was impressed. It basically didn't seem to care, and I could not get it to melt or change state in any way with the heat gun that will cause Tefzel wiring to finally melt and smoke. In parallel, I bought some Nomex lace, which also does not care about getting cooked by a heat gun, and will probably add this next to the normal lace in places that might be exposed to additional heat from the exhaust pipes. Will give some feedback in a few years when I'm finally flying. :) Not sure why, but working with the lace was very satisfying. Mickey Coggins On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 18:14, FLYaDIVE wrote: > Good point Bob... > > In general BLACK Ty-Wraps are UV and Ozone proof. The white ones become > brittle with time and exposure. > SOME - not all colored Ty-Wraps may also work. > > One might even find notes on the Ty-Wrap packaging as to UV & Ozone > resistant. > > Barry > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >> >> >> >> In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution >> for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on >> these products about ten years back . . . >> >> In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks >> of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with >> age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process >> of applying the wrap. >> >> Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved >> over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its >> close cousins have found their way into all manner of component, >> many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles. >> >> When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even >> a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor >> Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but >> some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors. >> >> All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes >> in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold >> years and were literally falling apart. >> >> My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied >> like so . . . >> >> https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ >> >> Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was >> installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had >> laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the >> roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the >> TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years >> but I'm betting the string will still be on duty. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> =================================== >> - >> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> =================================== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> =================================== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> =================================== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> =================================== >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.