---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/29/18: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:41 AM - Re: Analog Volt Meter (racerjerry) 2. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Analog Volt Meter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Analog Volt Meter (Ken Ryan) 4. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Analog Volt Meter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 12:56 PM - Re: B&C switches (blues750) 6. 04:50 PM - Re: B&C switches (user9253) 7. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: B&C switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 08:29 PM - Re: B&C switches (blues750) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:07 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Analog Volt Meter From: "racerjerry" Mike, be careful what you wish for. From my experience, 0 to 15V voltmeters of ANY size are near useless for monitoring the aircraft battery voltage and the charging system in flight. A compressed scale type voltmeter like Westach 2A5, which provides a scale of 6 to 16 volts (or the UMA 9 to 17V), offer better information with ability to distinguish minor voltage fluctuations. With a standard full scale, the distance of needle movement between a properly functioning charging system and normal battery voltage is minimal. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480498#480498 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Analog Volt Meter At 05:40 AM 5/29/2018, you wrote: > >Mike, be careful what you wish for. From my experience, 0 to 15V >voltmeters of ANY size are near useless for monitoring the aircraft >battery voltage and the charging system in flight. A compressed >scale type voltmeter like Westach 2A5, which provides a scale of 6 >to 16 volts (or the UMA 9 to 17V), offer better information with >ability to distinguish minor voltage fluctuations. With a standard >full scale, the distance of needle movement between a properly >functioning charging system and normal battery voltage is minimal. Agreed. For a voltmeter to be REALLY useful, it should focus on the spectrum of interest. You have zero interest in voltages below 10v or above 15v. Back in the not so dark ages, we offered a voltmeter/ loadmeter combo featuring a dual pointer instrument that was custom made for us by Westach. Their product was mostly okay . . . but about 10% of the goods were unusable right out of the box. Tried to get warranty replacements but they said, "sorry, you've had that instrument for more than 90 days." Emacs! Had to discontinue that offering. Another attempt to address miniature 'steam gage' loadmeters was launched with this product. Emacs! . . . and we fiddled with the notion of creating a single pointer, dual scale instrument in the same package. Emacs! It didn't seem to be a very viable project since these functions were being covered by most of the digital do-everything instruments coming into the market. This is an example of what Jerry is talking about for the expanded scale voltmeter. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:33 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Analog Volt Meter It seems to me that if ever there was an instance where a digital gauge is clearly superior to analog, it would be a volt meter, where fine resolution and accuracy are a must for monitoring the system. Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve. On Tue, May 29, 2018, 02:45 racerjerry wrote: > > > > Mike, be careful what you wish for. From my experience, 0 to 15V > voltmeters of ANY size are near useless for monitoring the aircraft battery > voltage and the charging system in flight. A compressed scale type > voltmeter like Westach 2A5, which provides a scale of 6 to 16 volts (or the > UMA 9 to 17V), offer better information with ability to distinguish minor > voltage fluctuations. With a standard full scale, the distance of needle > movement between a properly functioning charging system and normal battery > voltage is minimal. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480498#480498 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Analog Volt Meter At 11:19 AM 5/29/2018, you wrote: >It seems to me that if ever there was an instance where a digital >gauge is clearly superior to analog, it would be a volt meter, where >fine resolution and accuracy are a must for monitoring the system. This was a frequent discussion amongst pilots, engineers and marketing folks at various tenures in TC aircraft. There was a school of thought promoting instrumentation that would quickly flag a trend. For example, suppose all your 2" gages in a multi-engine aircraft were oriented such that 'normal' orientation was in some consistent 'clocking' . . . say 10-o'clock. A crew member conducting a scan of the panel did not have to pause, perceive, interprets and make a judgement on every displayed parameter. One could quickly some value that was not in visual lockstep with the rest of the systems. Digital displays off no such advantage. Then we had combo displays . . . bar graphs with adjacent digits. Hmmm . . . better but still pretty cluttered. Most of us learned to fly steam gages in SETC aircraft. There was no attempt to 'clock' the gages but given that there were few gages, it didn't take many hours of hood or cloud time to develop a mental image of normal displays . . . along with a refined awareness of readings that were not normal. For the most part, flight crew has little interest in the fine details of system numbers. The guys that need that kind of detail are repair technicians . . . who have the benefit of additional test equipment and diagnostic tools . . . on the ground. Then there's the matter of panel space. I wrote the spec and helped select a vendor for a customized, multi-channel, digital display that would let the crew watch any of serveral parameters of interest in detail. Values not being observed were monitored and thrown on the screen in detail when they ventured outside normal limits. This went into the first Gates-Piaggio 180s. There are strong arguments for both kinds of displays . . . but for different goals. Keeping it graphic-and-simple in the air goes to minimizing opportunity for error in stressful situations . . . like single pilot IFR . . . strange noises . . . icing . . . etc. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:06 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches From: "blues750" Aha! A bi-directional electro-hydraulic system. Okay, you need TWO relays. Your wiring looks like this https://goo.gl/f6zECm Bob . . .[/quote] In this drawing it seems to me you would need to bring the 18AWG wire from the power source and first relay over to the second relay as well...Y/N? If not, why not? As depicted is shows 22 AWG bringing the power to the second relay. Thanks! Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480505#480505 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:57 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches From: "user9253" Good catch Dave. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480507#480507 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:13 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches At 06:50 PM 5/29/2018, you wrote: > >Good catch Dave. > >-------- >Joe Gores > > Agreed . . . in fact, I stubbed my toe here. The drawing I linked you to was not the last iteration. I'm glad that the errors were so gross as to raise the question! Here's the real one https://goo.gl/qf9ihL I've run out of ANL30 limiters. Got some more coming that should be here Saturday. Will mail your care package either Saturday or Monday. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:22 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches From: "blues750" -------- [/quote] Agreed . . . Here's the real one https://goo.gl/qf9ihL (https://goo.gl/qf9ihL) I've run out of ANL30 limiters. Got some more coming that should be here Saturday. Will mail your care package either Saturday or Monday. Bob . . .[/quote] OK, thanks for updated drawing. I note that the relays are powered thru and protected with a 3A c/b. Is the current draw on a relay stated anywhere as a spec typically? Reason I ask is that I have plenty of 5A and 1A breakers to tap but not sure if 1A is adequate for the relays. Dave... 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