---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/01/18: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:06 AM - Ground and ground loops (Achille) 2. 05:40 AM - Re: B&C switches (blues750) 3. 05:46 AM - Re: B&C switches (blues750) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: Ground and ground loops (user9253) 5. 05:50 AM - Re: B&C switches (user9253) 6. 07:25 AM - Re: Ground and ground loops (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 08:38 AM - Re: Ground and ground loops (Achille) 8. 08:57 AM - Re: Alarm souder with multiple sources (Achille) 9. 04:22 PM - Netgear 1010 Powerline Adapter Feedback (William Hunter) 10. 04:31 PM - Conduit Pass Through Question (William Hunter) 11. 05:24 PM - Re: Conduit Pass Through Question (Charlie England) 12. 05:30 PM - Re: Conduit Pass Through Question (user9253) 13. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Conduit Pass Through Question (William Hunter) 14. 11:01 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 15. 11:26 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:13 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground and ground loops From: "Achille" Good morning, I send a message about ground loops and ground, I let my electrical system without finishing my work on it since months due to winter and other things. Yesterday I decided to finish it because it's the only things that I have to do to fly. And months without working on it let me a bit confuse, even if I had diagram that is close to Z19 from Bob book, but for a wooden canard plane. - My first question that I have it's about my ground on the alternator. On my drawing I wrote that I have a ground close to the battery on the forward side of the plane. (batery on the nose, and ground with B&C ground plate) and another ground spot on the engine side connected to the first via the 2awg ground for the starter. My alternator is screwed on the engine. If I set a 8 AWG wire from his ground terminal to the engine ground I will have a ground loop right ? (so I let it without ground wire ?) Also on my plane I was thinking that my 2awg starter ground will pickup all my ground that I have on the aft part of the plane. I wanted to set a bras plate bolt on the ground alternator screw were my 2 AWG starter but It looked like not mecanicaly good, so I set this ground on engine bolt encoutered around. It's bad right ? (All my work during month reading the book to do a "good" electrical systeme are loosed on this " engine case bolt ground" ? Thank you in advance to help me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480548#480548 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ground_mickael_176.pdf ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches From: "blues750" [i][i] nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > At 08:20 PM 5/31/2018, you wrote: > > > > > OK, have reviewed the new drawing (thank you Bob... :D )...but have a couple more questions I am pondering regarding implementation. > > > > (1) From my power source to the relay terminals (87). I would like to run a single 12 ga wire from the front of the aircraft where the ANL holder will be located and make a "Y" once I get near the relays for connection to each relay 87 terminal. Best way to fashion the "Y" ? My experience so far seems to say I cannot do a double wire splice/crimp with 12 AWG in a yellow connector. Similarly I would be doing the same thing with the gnd terminals (87A) so I could run a single ground wire forward to my firewall ground. So my question is how best to join two 12 AWG wires to a single 12AWG wire to fashion a "Y". I do have solder sleeves big enough...if that is acceptable? Open to any other ideas. > > [i] How about mounting the relays as close to the ANL30 > as practical and simply run two wires to the motor? > Mounting the relays close to battery contactor makes > all the wires on the ship-side really short. > > The reason I took both 12AWG tot he ANL30 was for > that same reason . . . two terminals on one stud. > > > > > > I agree, this seems like the best way to do this - everything close to the firewall and only two wires aft to the pump > > > > > > (2) What is the electrical symbology between the relay terminals (30) to the motor - best I can ref is some sort of light indicator? > > > > (3) OK to crimp the diode leads in with the 22AWG terminals? > > Hmmmm good question. I was going to send > you pre-wired sockets to mate with the > relays. You would splice ship's wireing > to those flying leads. A soldered lap-splice under > heat shrink is fine . . . but makes it tough > to install diodes. > > Here's an alternative: https://goo.gl/QTT74j (https://goo.gl/QTT74j) > > This shows an S704 with recessed tabs where > the pre-wired socket doesn't work. > > The relays I have ar like this: > > [img]cid:.0[/img] > > Since you need to apply your own terminals > to the coils so you can add diodes, perhaps > the sockets are more bother than asset. Let's > go with taking ship's wires to the tabs with > your own terminals. ---- Easily done > > > > Another question: What's the plan-b for getting > gear down if your power is down or the motor > craps or a relay goes toast? > > The alternate plan is to take the aircraft to the water if gear is stuck up and if anything but full up then take it to the grass or asphalt. That's probably why a lot of Alaskan amphibs have manual pumps. [Wink] [Wink] A small manual hydraulic pump may eventually replace the electric pump, but cockpit ergonomics are an issue which I haven't worked out yet.[/b] > > Bob . . . Thanks for the dialog and insight Bob! Will advise when in receipt of the "care package" Dave... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480550#480550 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:11 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches From: "blues750" user9253 wrote: > I could not find that symbol in this pdf: > https://www.noao.edu/ets/Mechanical/Policies/ANSI%20Y32.2-1975.pdf > My guess is that it is a splice. Thanks Joe, that makes sense!! Funny how things are usually clearer after a good night's sleep... Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480551#480551 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground and ground loops From: "user9253" > If I set a 8 AWG wire from his ground terminal to the engine ground I will have a ground loop right ? I would install that alternator ground wire. The engine ground bolt should be fine. Ground loops are more of a concern for avionics and audio. Grounding them at a single point is good. Consider using an EFIS instead of round gauges. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480552#480552 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:35 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C switches From: "user9253" > Funny how things are usually clearer after a good night's sleep... Sitting on the toilet for a few minutes helps me solve problems. LOL -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480553#480553 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground and ground loops At 04:05 AM 6/1/2018, you wrote: > >Good morning, > >I send a message about ground loops and ground, I let my electrical >system without finishing my work on it since months due to winter >and other things. > >Yesterday I decided to finish it because it's the only things that I >have to do to fly. And months without working on it let me a bit >confuse, even if I had diagram that is close to Z19 from Bob book, >but for a wooden canard plane. > >- My first question that I have it's about my ground on the alternator. > >On my drawing I wrote that I have a ground close to the battery on >the forward side of the plane. (batery on the nose, and ground with >B&C ground plate) and another ground spot on the engine side >connected to the first via the 2awg ground for the starter. > My alternator is screwed on the engine. If I set a 8 AWG wire from > his ground terminal to the engine ground I will have a ground loop > right ? (so I let it without ground wire ?) Alternators automatically ground by virtue of their metallic mounts to the engine. No additional attention necessary. >Also on my plane I was thinking that my 2awg starter ground will >pickup all my ground that I have on the aft part of the plane. I >wanted to set a bras plate bolt on the ground alternator screw were >my 2 AWG starter but It looked like not mecanicaly good, so I set >this ground on engine bolt encoutered around. > >It's bad right ? (All my work during month reading the book to do a >"good" electrical systeme are loosed on this " engine case bolt ground" Is this a canard pusher? Check out this ground system architecture https://goo.gl/9PELRS Think of your ground system as a 'star' centered on the B&C Ground Block bolt. You need a starter current rated jumper (2AWG certainly adequate) from a good crankcase attach point to the ground block bolt. You need a jumper from battery(-) to the ground block bolt. All other 'stuff' grounds at the block with wires of same AWG as the power feeder. Exception: All panel mounted electro-whizzies get their own 'star' system. Exceptions: Any avionics shields that show ground symbols should ground locally to their associated black box . . . do not extend shield grounds down to the B&C Ground Bus. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:14 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground and ground loops From: "Achille" Many thanks Joe and Bob for you reply. I am reading again the book and it refresh my "knowledge" very well. So I will let my alternator WHITOUT ground wire if I understand well; My engine case couldn't substitute the firewall ground buse ? (I tell that because I already set ground on it.... Thing that I would like to avoid since.. yeasterday. [Rolling Eyes] [Rolling Eyes] [Rolling Eyes] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480560#480560 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:55 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alarm souder with multiple sources From: "Achille" Thank for your reply andy, i did not see it. I was thinking about more easy and simply gadget. Just with buzzer and led. I have done a drawing for my 3 systems alarm to begin, now I have to set it in a more conventional way. (to do not have 3 sounder, and 3 switch to mute them) - Starter still engage - Oil press low - Sounder from my low/high voltage "idiot light" (has an option to wire a buzzer) I was thinking to use simply diode in each entry and the only one switch/led/sounder ? But it's not my best matter electronic. Mainly to set it on a plane, don't want to do a mistake. I anyone have an idea... or advice. [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480562#480562 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_7354_497.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:17 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Netgear 1010 Powerline Adapter Feedback I just today received and installed these Netgear Powerline 1010 internet extenders: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01929V7ZG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie =UTF8 &psc=1 NOTE: the come in a "wired" and "wireless" options and make sure you select the wireless if you want to have WIFI in the remote location. The instructions are HORRIBLE and the person who wrote the instructions should be required to setup a system based on using their instructions and then they will realize how stupid they actually are. So here was the scenario: I have a DSL modem/ WIFI router (in one convenient plastic case) and it has a black box power cord that plugs into the wall making heat and using electricity. If my house was small that would be the singular solution however my house is large...and...it also has the steel outbuilding (hangar/workshop) 50 feet away. The outbuilding is on the same power supply (downstream of the meter) as the house. So I thought "great"...buy one BASE unit (plug looking box that does not have a WIFI antenna) and connect that to my existing router using the CAT 5 cable and then that box will digitize the internet signal and then use the house copper wires as the wired connection to transmit the internet signal to the far end of the house. Then I will plug in the "WIFI ACCESS POINT" (plug looking box with the antenna) to grab the internet signal from the house coper wires and then transmit WIFI to that part of the house. I would also use an additional WIFI ACCESS POINT and plug that into a socket in the master bedroom, and then use a third WIFI access point out in the shop. So I need one BASE unit and three WIFI ACCESS POINTS .check. HOWEVER.Netgear only sells these things in bundles (one BASE unit and one WIFI EXTENDER) and they do NOT sell the WIFI EXTENDERS separately!!! So I am stuck having to buy THREE bundles and toss out the two unneeded BASE units (or buy two bundles PLUS a separate WIFI router then that router will have cables and wasted electricity. Good thing these things come in bundles because one BASE unit did not work so I tossed it out and grabbed another unused one (was already in the garbage can because I thought I did not need it) and connected it up and synced the units and it worked. I used Speedtest to conduct two download tests of my Duraspeed WIFI router to set a benchmark and then with each of the Netgear WIFI units up and running and located in the exact same room as the Duraspeed and at the same distance I ran two speed tests of each Netgear WIFI unit. Then I took the Netgear WIFI units out to the outbuilding and conducted two tests of each unit and to ensure reliable comparison I made sure my laptop was the same distance away from each unit when conducting the test and I also used the exact same wall outlet for each unit. Ping Download Upload Duraspeed DSL Modem/WIFI Router 26 11.68 1.24 80 12.00 1.49 Netgear 18 In House 31 11.96 1.52 38 12.09 1.50 Netgear 18 In Outbuilding 33 12.09 1.50 131 12.26 1.50 Netgear 68 In House 21 11.79 1.47 87 3.14 1.51 Netgear 68 In Outbuilding 32 8.31 1.50 Second test stalled Third test stalled 27 12.48 1.50 Well.it seems to be working now.I will report back if there are any more issues. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:10 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Conduit Pass Through Question Dear Knower Of All Things That Dewlleth Within My Computer, I am installing an evaporative cooler in my steel building hangar because it is getting kinda toasty here in Western Arizona=85but hey=85It=92s a dry heat?!?!/ So I am running =BD inch steel conduit for the 220V wire and =BD inch PVC for the water line and I need to get these two aforementioned pipes from the inside of the hangar to the outside where the new totally cool evaporative cooler is being installed. For those who have done this kind of work before, can you PLEASE direct me to a bushing that can be inserted into the sheet metal steel wall and then I can slide the conduits through that bushing=85OR=85if there is a better way then I would be happy to hear it. I have researched The Google to no avail=85it did have hundred dollar firewall pass through units but no such economical bushings. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Conduit Pass Through Question From: Charlie England On 6/1/2018 6:30 PM, William Hunter wrote: > > Dear Knower Of All Things That Dewlleth Within My Computer, > > I am installing an evaporative cooler in my steel building hangar > because it is getting kinda toasty here in Western Arizonabut > heyIts a dry heat?!?!/ > > So I am running inch steel conduit for the 220V wire and inch PVC > for the water line and I need to get these two aforementioned pipes > from the inside of the hangar to the outside where the new totally > cool evaporative cooler is being installed. > > For those who have done this kind of work before, can you PLEASE > direct me to a bushing that can be inserted into the sheet metal steel > wall and then I can slide the conduits through that bushingORif > there is a better way then I would be happy to hear it. > > I have researched The Google to no availit did have hundred dollar > firewall pass through units but no such economical bushings. > > .. > > Cheers!!! > > Bill Hunter > Well first, I wouldn't use steel conduit; I'd use PVC electrical conduit (the gray stuff). Won't rust & doesn't UV degrade. Much easier to work with, unless you have all the required electrician's tools. For the electrical pass-through, 'LB' conduit fittings are one common way to do it. https://www.google.com/search?q=lb+conduit+fitting&oq=lb+conduit+fitting&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.12062j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 If you feel you must have a watertight seal, you can caulk around the hole in the siding. For water, I'd just have to guess. How about something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Cable-eLander-Plastic-Waterproof-Adjustable/dp/B01ICZAJL4/ref=sr_1_11_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1527898277&sr=8-11-spons&keywords=npt+bulkhead+fitting&psc=1 Buy a size that will accept your PVC pipe & run a section of pipe through it. Use PVC couplers on both ends. I guess you could do the same thing with the electrical, now that I think about it. Hope that gives you some ideas, Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:23 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Conduit Pass Through Question From: "user9253" One possibility is to use a "threaded bushed nipple" large enough for the conduit to pass through. A conduit-lock-nut will hold the bushed nipple in place. Bushed nipples are threaded on the outside and smooth on the inside. Search Google for "threaded bushed nipple". -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480572#480572 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:15 PM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Conduit Pass Through Question Joe and Charlie, As always I know I could count on you! For the water I think I'm going to go with the bushing that was pointed out .. For the electricity I think I'm going to go with the 90 degree conduit "pull through" with a threaded end and that will go from the inside of the hanger through the metal wall to the outside On the outside I will install a powder coated, grey, weatherproof box and from that box I will use the coil conduit to run the wires to the unit itself Thanks again Bill Hunter On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 17:34 user9253 wrote: > > One possibility is to use a "threaded bushed nipple" large enough for the > conduit to pass through. A conduit-lock-nut will hold the bushed nipple in > place. > Bushed nipples are threaded on the outside and smooth on the inside. > Search Google for "threaded bushed nipple". > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480572#480572 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:00 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains AeroElectric-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the AeroElectric-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the AeroElectric-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:02 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.