---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/04/18: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:15 AM - Re: gps and alternator. (Ernest Christley) 2. 11:52 AM - Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? (Robert Borger) 3. 12:00 PM - Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 12:17 PM - Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? (William Hunter) 5. 03:29 PM - Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 04:35 PM - Re: Am I creating a Ground Loop? (speedy11@aol.com) 7. 04:44 PM - Re: gps and alternator. (FLYaDIVE) 8. 05:16 PM - Re: gps and alternator. (Alec Myers) 9. 05:18 PM - Re: gps and alternator. (JohnInReno) 10. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: gps and alternator. (Kelly McMullen) 11. 05:38 PM - Re: gps and alternator. (Ken Ryan) 12. 06:41 PM - Re: gps and alternator. (Charlie England) 13. 07:05 PM - Re: gps and alternator. (Alec Myers) 14. 07:41 PM - How to Wire My Alternator (Art Zemon) 15. 08:27 PM - Re: How to Wire My Alternator (Charlie England) 16. 08:43 PM - Troubleshooting open squelch (Rick Beebe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:00 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gps and alternator. A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals. On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers wrot e: But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They=99re usually mo unted on top of the aircraft, not under it. On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs wrote: thanks, good news ernest. =C2-bob | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley wrote : The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator pro duces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk. On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs wrote: hi all, i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but the y would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? thanks, bob noffs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579 http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?AeroElectric-List<= Same great conten t also available via the Web Forums! http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/ contribution=== =============== = ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:46 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? Bob, WOW, that was easy! I now have extended our home network to my shop using a pair of those Asoka PlugLink 9650s. Plugged one into a power socket and connected it via ethernet cable to my Airport Extreme. Plugged the other into the wall in my shop and connected it via ethernet cable to an Airport Express. Opened the Airport Utility on my MacBook Air and told it the Airport Express was an extension of the home net and it was. Whole thing didn=99t take more than 2 minutes. Very Cool indeed! Thanks muchly for this non-aviation but powerful tip. This should work a treat for the guy who wants to go 50 feet to his hangar. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On May 25, 2018, at 9:06 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > My steel hangar is about 50 feet away and there is cement and asphalt over the ground between the house and the hangar so to dig down and install a CAT 5 cable run out to the hangar is not a fun option. > > Are there any WIFI extender options available to get WIFI out to the hangar? I presume you have AC power in the hangar. I'm also hoping that the feeder comes off a breaker in your house. If so, you might consider a product like this: https://goo.gl/srUq55 Asoka is not the only supplier of such devices. These are power line connected cat5 transceivers. Put one in the house with a jumper to your router and the second in the hangar. I've been using these things around here for several years . . . saved me a lot of time/effort stringing wire. I've got a couple of surplus devices I could send you to experiment with. But if your hangar doesn't get ac power from the house distribution panel . . . all bets are off. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? At 01:52 PM 6/4/2018, you wrote: >Bob, > >WOW, that was easy! > >I now have extended our home network to my shop >using a pair of those Asoka PlugLink >9650s. Plugged one into a power socket and >connected it via ethernet cable to my Airport >Extreme. Plugged the other into the wall in my >shop and connected it via ethernet cable to an >Airport Express. Opened the Airport Utility on >my MacBook Air and told it the Airport Express >was an extension of the home net and it >was. Whole thing didn=99t take more than 2 minutes. Very Cool indeed! > >Thanks muchly for this non-aviation but powerful tip. > >This should work a treat for the guy who wants to go 50 feet to his hangar. I've had generally good results with that product with one caveat . . . my house was built 1965 with real "Romex" . . . tarpaper over hemp over pvc over copper. It's characteristics as a transmission line are, no doubt shady compared to modern wiring. I have a few outlets (most remote from breaker box) that give marginal connection. But for the most part, they've worked well for me too. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:19 PM PST US From: "William Hunter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? I installed the Netgear 1010 units and was equally happy with the results. Our solar system has a similar =9Cpowerline=9D adapter that was just delivered and I need to plug it injust curious is two of these adapters connected to the same power system would screw with each others communication. I will install the SunPower adapter and report backIFit does not get cyber smoked?!?!? .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 11:52 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? Bob, WOW, that was easy! I now have extended our home network to my shop using a pair of those Asoka PlugLink 9650s. Plugged one into a power socket and connected it via ethernet cable to my Airport Extreme. Plugged the other into the wall in my shop and connected it via ethernet cable to an Airport Express. Opened the Airport Utility on my MacBook Air and told it the Airport Express was an extension of the home net and it was. Whole thing didn=99t take more than 2 minutes. Very Cool indeed! Thanks muchly for this non-aviation but powerful tip. This should work a treat for the guy who wants to go 50 feet to his hangar. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On May 25, 2018, at 9:06 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: My steel hangar is about 50 feet away and there is cement and asphalt over the ground between the house and the hangar so to dig down and install a CAT 5 cable run out to the hangar is not a fun option. Are there any WIFI extender options available to get WIFI out to the hangar? I presume you have AC power in the hangar. I'm also hoping that the feeder comes off a breaker in your house. If so, you might consider a product like this: https://goo.gl/srUq55 Asoka is not the only supplier of such devices. These are power line connected cat5 transceivers. Put one in the house with a jumper to your router and the second in the hangar. I've been using these things around here for several years . . . saved me a lot of time/effort stringing wire. I've got a couple of surplus devices I could send you to experiment with. But if your hangar doesn't get ac power from the house distribution panel . . . all bets are off. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:36 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? At 02:09 PM 6/4/2018, you wrote: >I installed the Netgear 1010 units and was equally happy with the results. > >Our solar system has a similar =9Cpowerline=9D >adapter that was just delivered and I need to >plug it in=85just curious is two of these adapters >connected to the same power system would screw >with each others communication.=C2 I will install >the SunPower adapter and report back=85IF=85it does not get cyber er smoked?!?!? The Asoka units can be 'stacked' in the same facility. They simply become an additional port to what might be considered a whole- house cat5 switch. I've had as many as five transceivers active at the same time with a couple of 'roving' units used for handing a cat5 cable to a visitor. I.P. addresses for devices on the various ports are managed by your home router. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:57 PM PST US From: speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Am I creating a Ground Loop? Bob and Joe, Thanks for your responses. Stan Sutterfield ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:00 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gps and alternator. Ernest: Even if your cowl is fiberglass... You will be blocking satellite reception when they are low on the horizon. And what about the firewall? Isn't that meal? The you will be blocking in that direction as well. What about HEAT? What is the operation and storage temperatures for the antenna? You can always call the manufacture and get their recommendations? Cutting drag is important, but so is navigation and with ADS-B so is being seen. <-- I don't know if this is connected to ADS-B? Barry On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: > The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator > produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk. > > > On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs wrote: > > > > hi all, > i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but > they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? > thanks, > bob noffs > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<= Same great content > also available via the Web Forums! > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:40 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gps and alternator. The PCB, traces, ground planes and assorted electronic components inside the antenna module package and under the antenna element sure arent transparent. Is Bob planning to mount it with the cable entry at the bottom and route the coax outside the cowl? On Jun 4, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Ernest Christley wrote: A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals. On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers wrote: But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. Theyre usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it. On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs wrote: thanks, good news ernest. bob Virus-free. www.avast.com On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk. On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs wrote: hi all, i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? thanks, bob noffs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579 http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?AeroElectric-List<= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/ contribution================== = ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:13 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: gps and alternator. From: "JohnInReno" bobnoffs wrote: > hi all, > i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? > thank > bob noffs I reluctantly moved my GPS antenna to the glare shield because of occasional "drop outs". I left the XM radio antenna under the cowl. -------- John Morgensen RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013 RV4 - for sale Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480655#480655 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: gps and alternator. From: Kelly McMullen I've been flying for a couple years with my Dynon GPS-250 under the cowl, just in front of the firewall and behind the metal engine baffles. No problem for driving my Dynon Skyview displays. OTOH, I mounted my IFR GTN650 antenna where Garmin calls for it, on top of the fiberglass cabin, rather than bury it inside the glass. Guess which antenna is more sensitive and sees satellites first.............The Dynon will pick up enough satellites with the hangar door part way open, while the Garmin requires vertical view of the sky. On 6/4/2018 5:17 PM, JohnInReno wrote: > > > bobnoffs wrote: >> hi all, >> i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? >> thank >> bob noffs > > > I reluctantly moved my GPS antenna to the glare shield because of occasional "drop outs". I left the XM radio antenna under the cowl. > > -------- > John Morgensen > RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013 > RV4 - for sale > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480655#480655 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:25 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gps and alternator. I've seen quite a few GPS mounted under the boot cowl, but not on the engine side of the firewall. I would be more concerned about heat than reception. Right now my SuperSTOL is in my shop, which has a metal roof and a metal door, and my Dynon GPS has no problem at all locking on. That said, I did choose to mount the GPS right on top of the airplane. Most of the SuperSTOLs and Highlanders I have seen either put it under the boot cowl (fiberglass) or on top of the glare shield. Ken On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 3:43 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > Ernest: > > Even if your cowl is fiberglass... You will be blocking satellite > reception when they are low on the horizon. > And what about the firewall? Isn't that meal? The you will be blocking > in that direction as well. > What about HEAT? What is the operation and storage temperatures for the > antenna? > You can always call the manufacture and get their recommendations? > Cutting drag is important, but so is navigation and with ADS-B so is being > seen. <-- I don't know if this is connected to ADS-B? > > Barry > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Ernest Christley > wrote: > >> The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator >> produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk. >> >> >> On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs wrote: >> >> >> >> hi all, >> i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but >> they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? >> thanks, >> bob noffs >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579 >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<= Same great >> content also available via the Web Forums! >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================== >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gps and alternator. From: Charlie England Alec, Are we on the same page? The proposal is not *under* the cowl. It's *inside* the cowl, on a shelf, mounted to the firewall just under the *top* of the cowl. Cable would go through the firewall, like other electrical stuff. Charlie On 6/4/2018 7:09 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > The PCB, traces, ground planes and assorted electronic components inside the antenna module package and under the antenna element sure arent transparent. > Is Bob planning to mount it with the cable entry at the bottom and route the coax outside the cowl? > > > On Jun 4, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Ernest Christley wrote: > > A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals. > > > On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > > But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. Theyre usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it. > > On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs wrote: > > thanks, good news ernest. > bob > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: > The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk. > > > On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs wrote: > > > > hi all, > i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? > thanks, > bob noffs > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:35 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gps and alternator. I have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl.... My bad: I interpreted that as on the bottom surface of the cowl facing downwards :/ Which, to be fair, would work just fine for whole lot of other antennas... On Jun 4, 2018, at 21:41, Charlie England wrote: Alec, Are we on the same page? The proposal is not *under* the cowl. It's *inside* the cowl, on a shelf, mounted to the firewall just under the *top* of the cowl. Cable would go through the firewall, like other electrical stuff. Charlie > On 6/4/2018 7:09 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > The PCB, traces, ground planes and assorted electronic components inside the antenna module package and under the antenna element sure arent transparent. > Is Bob planning to mount it with the cable entry at the bottom and route the coax outside the cowl? > > > > On Jun 4, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Ernest Christley wrote: > > A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals. > > > On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers wrote: > > > But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. Theyre usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it. > > On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs wrote: > > thanks, good news ernest. > bob > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: > The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk. > > > On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs wrote: > > > > hi all, > i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble? > thanks, > bob noffs > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:39 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to Wire My Alternator I need help. I bought a used engine and it came with an alternator that has no labels that I can find. How do I hook it up? Engine: Lycoming IO-360-A1A Alternator: looks like this: Back of the alternator has three Faston tabs and what looks like a screw terminal next to them: =8B I bought a B&C LR3C-14 voltage regulator and ran the field wire to one of the Faston tabs. I have confirmed that I do have voltage at the alternator end of the wire. However, with the engine off, my EFIS does not show any current draw when I turn on the primary alternator. When I run the engine, the primary alternator does not produce any current. I also have a B&C standby alternator with its B&C voltage regulator. That one works just fine. With the engine off, I see it's field draw about 0.5 amps. With the engine running, the standby alternator pumps out plenty of amps which the EFIS nicely displays. How should I connect the primary alternator? And what is it? Thanks, -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."* ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to Wire My Alternator From: Charlie England On 6/4/2018 9:40 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > I need help. I bought a used engine and it came with an alternator > that has no labels that I can find. How do I hook it up? > > Engine: Lycoming IO-360-A1A > > Alternator: looks like this: > > > Back of the alternator has three Faston tabs and what looks like a > screw terminal next to them: > > > I bought a B&C LR3C-14 voltage regulator and ran the field wire to one > of the Faston tabs. I have confirmed that I do have voltage at the > alternator end of the wire. However, with the engine off, my EFIS does > not show any current draw when I turn on the primary alternator. When > I run the engine, the primary alternator does not produce any current. > > I also have a B&C standby alternator with its B&C voltage regulator. > That one works just fine. With the engine off, I see it's field draw > about 0.5 amps. With the engine running, the standby alternator pumps > out plenty of amps which the EFIS nicely displays. > > How should I connect the primary alternator? And what is it? > > Thanks, > -- Art Z. > That *looks* like one of the early internally regulated alternators. If I'm right, it needs to see 12V on the 'I' (or 'IG', for Ignition) terminal to 'turn on'. I'm attaching a drawing (let me know if it doesn't come through) of a similar alternator. the 3 pin shell is shaped differently, but I believe that the pinout is the same. On the rather primitive electrical system I had, the IG pin was simply jumped to the B lead terminal. Not advising you to operate it that way, but you can test for operation by doing that. If you jump from B lead to IG, start the engine, and get ~14V out on the B lead, then you have an internally regulated alternator. Note that I might be wrong; be sure none of your avionics are connected when you do this test.... Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:21 PM PST US From: Rick Beebe Subject: AeroElectric-List: Troubleshooting open squelch I have a GlaStar with a pretty simple panel. Standard 6-pack, a Garmin 300XL GPS/Comm, a Garmin GTX320 transponder and a Sigtronics 2 place intercom. Step one of a probably multi-year upgrade is to get rid of the vacuum system and go a little glass. I spent the past month (very part-time) pulling all the vacuum instruments and installing a Garmin G5 in place of the AI. It took some work to find a quiet spot for the GMU11 magnetometer. The strobes were a big interferer and part of my mitigation was to pull the old wiring and replace with new 3 conductor shielded (I had previously replaced the Whelen strobes with Aveo LED units. While I had the plane apart I also installed a uAvionix EchoUAT ADS-B In/Out and a WAAS GPS receiver. I finished the installation Saturday and yesterday I took the plane outside to calibrate the remote compass on the compass rose. To my surprise I'm getting constant static on the comm. I can hear other calls...it just seems the squelch got disabled or is being overcome by something. I had made one change to the radio--I attached a single wire, RS-232 out, from it to the G5 for position data. I spent several hours troubleshooting today. First, I pulled the fuses on all the devices I added. No change. I disconnected the RS-232 wire. No change. I did the testing with the plane in the hangar and everything except the master and avionics switch off. I even tried pulling each circuit breaker (the legacy equipment). Nothing effects it. I went into the 300XL configuration mode and the first screen shows you all the buttons and lets you verify the unit is detecting button presses. The 300XL has a squelch on/off button but no other adjustments. And it's always supposed to power on with squelch on. At this point I'm completely baffled. Any ideas on other things to look at? Thanks for your help. --Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.