---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/26/18: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - Re: Availability of AECxxxx components (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 12:04 PM - Re: What to monitor in a dual alternator airplane (BMC_Dave) 3. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: What to monitor in a dual alternator airplane (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 01:00 PM - Re: What to monitor in a dual alternator airplane (BMC_Dave) 5. 01:32 PM - Re: Availability of AECxxxx components (Pat Little) 6. 02:46 PM - Re: Availability of AECxxxx components (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Availability of AECxxxx components At 02:16 PM 9/25/2018, you wrote: >Hi everyone, maybe Bob N. In The Aeroelectric >Connection (book) there are numerous references >to parts numbered AECxxxx (e.g. the one I am >interested in at the moment is AEC9030-1 a >solid-state relay). I see data sheets for these >on aeroelectric.com but >I am having difficulty finding a source. Are >these in production?=C2 Available used? Scarce as hen's teeth?=C2 >Pat Little I built a few of those and they were proof-of-concept tested in a few airplanes . . . but there weren't enough perceived applications for these to warrant putting them into production. How do you think you might use one? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:04 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What to monitor in a dual alternator airplane From: "BMC_Dave" [quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"] > > > The stand-by versions of the alternator controller > are not recommended for simple dual alternator installations > where the auto-switch feature is not necessary . . . > Glad I just happened across this then as it's not immediately apparent. Basing my design off Z-12 I had assumed the AUX ALT field was open until needed. The standby regulator document does explain this though, leave it closed in normal ops. I'm curious as to the need for a breaker for the alternator field if it's already on a switch? Are those still necessary? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483381#483381 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: What to monitor in a dual alternator airplane >Glad I just happened across this then as it's not immediately >apparent. Basing my design off Z-12 I had assumed the AUX ALT field >was open until needed. The standby regulator document does explain >this though, leave it closed in normal ops. > >I'm curious as to the need for a breaker for the alternator field if >it's already on a switch? Are those still necessary? > Yes, The B&C line of alternator controllers utilize 'crowbar' ov protection. This philosophy calls for triggering a silicon controlled rectifier or triac connected directly from the field supply line to ground effectively applying a dead-short to the field power feeder. The breaker is expected to do it's designed duty and protect that feeder while effectively bringing a runaway alternator to heal. This technique was first proposed to TC aviation about 1980 when I proto-typed a controller for Beech compatible with a particularly wicked engine/alternator combination proposed for the "Turbine Bonanza" design being tested at Beech. The controller meet the Beech requirements and the technique would have flown first its first TC mission on that airplane. The program was scrapped but the technique was being proofed on hundreds of OBAM aircraft in B&C products and later picked up by Plane Power, Lamar and others. So the short answer is yes, you DO want to use a breaker accessible to crew even if all other protection is remote fuses . . . it's the one breaker you might wish to reset ONE time to confirm that a trip was not a nuisance event. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:17 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What to monitor in a dual alternator airplane From: "BMC_Dave" nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > > > Glad I just happened across this then as it's not immediately apparent. Basing my design off Z-12 I had assumed the AUX ALT field was open until needed. The standby regulator document does explain this though, leave it closed in normal ops. > > > > I'm curious as to the need for a breaker for the alternator field if it's already on a switch? Are those still necessary? > > > > > > Yes, The B&C line of alternator controllers utilize > 'crowbar' ov protection. This philosophy calls for > triggering a silicon controlled rectifier or triac > connected directly from the field supply line to ground > effectively applying a dead-short to the field power > feeder. The breaker is expected to do it's designed > duty and protect that feeder while effectively bringing > a runaway alternator to heal. > > This technique was first proposed to TC aviation about > 1980 when I proto-typed a controller for Beech compatible > with a particularly wicked engine/alternator combination > proposed for the "Turbine Bonanza" design being > tested at Beech. The controller meet the Beech > requirements and the technique would have flown > first its first TC mission on that airplane. > > The program was scrapped but the technique was > being proofed on hundreds of OBAM aircraft in > B&C products and later picked up by Plane Power, > Lamar and others. So the short answer is yes, > you DO want to use a breaker accessible to > crew even if all other protection is remote > fuses . . . it's the one breaker you might wish > to reset ONE time to confirm that a trip was > not a nuisance event. > > > Bob . . . Right on, appreciate the explanation! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483385#483385 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:50 PM PST US From: Pat Little Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Availability of AECxxxx components Hi Bob, I am planning the electrical system for a Zenith STOL CH750 with Jabiru 3300. A Dynon EMS-D120 will display engine parameters - oil pressure, temp, etc. Obviously we want the engine monitor to be there after start to display oil pressure and so on. We have tested it (the EMS-D120) on the bench and it stays alive with reduced input voltage down to about 5.5V so it probably will be OK; however, if it turns out later that we do need a brownout battery (=C3- la Z-10/8) then I would like to have made provisio n for it when building the electrical system by adding a few extra wires and making sure there was room for the battery and relay. I was thinking the AEC9030-1 would be my choice for the relay. Is there an alternative solid-state relay you could recommend? Pat On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 6:38 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 02:16 PM 9/25/2018, you wrote: > > Hi everyone, maybe Bob N. In The Aeroelectric Connection (book) there are > numerous references to parts numbered AECxxxx (e.g. the one I am interest ed > in at the moment is AEC9030-1 a solid-state relay). I see data sheets for > these on aeroelectric.com but I am having difficulty finding a source. > Are these in production?=C3=82 Available used? Scarce as hen's teeth?=C3 =82 > Pat Little > > > I built a few of those and they were > proof-of-concept tested in a few > airplanes . . . but there weren't > enough perceived applications for > these to warrant putting them > into production. > > How do you think you might use one? > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Availability of AECxxxx components At 03:32 PM 9/26/2018, you wrote: >Hi Bob, > >I am planning the electrical system for a Zenith >STOL CH750 with Jabiru 3300. A Dynon EMS-D120 >will display engine parameters - oil pressure, >temp, etc. Obviously we want the engine monitor >to be there after start to display oil pressure >and so on. We have tested it (the EMS-D120) on >the bench and it stays alive with reduced input >voltage down to about 5.5V so it probably will >be OK; however, if it turns out later that we do >need a brownout battery (=C3 =C2 la Z-10/8) then I >would like to have made provision for it when >building the electrical system by adding a few >extra wires and making sure there was room for >the battery and relay. I was thinking the >AEC9030-1 would be my choice for the relay. > >Is there an alternative solid-state relay you could recommend? Yeah . . . the next-generation of Z-13 is going to illustrate a $10, all cases solution to the various brown-out scenarios that have plagued our brothers now for years. Had two round trips to Wichita yesterday and had a lot of 'asphalt engineering' time to ponder some options. I'll be publishing the idea in then next few days. I've really been trying to avoid adding any sort of battery to a system that needs a little bit of help for mere seconds per flight cycle . . . I think I've got one figured out. 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