---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/28/18: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (FLYaDIVE) 2. 09:50 AM - Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (user9253) 3. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (C&K) 4. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (FLYaDIVE) 5. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (Dick Tasker) 6. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (FLYaDIVE) 7. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (Dick Tasker) 8. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (Harley Dixon) 9. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (Jeff Luckey) 10. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (John Tipton) 12. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? (FLYaDIVE) 13. 06:10 PM - Reminder: Pumpkin Drop, next Saturday (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:42 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? Bob: Of course GFI will not work on planes, not as yet! The present GFI for homes uses inductance in the AC circuit. Our planes are DC, inductance is not there, AC is not there! The type of Ground does not matter. Barry On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:59 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:41 AM 10/26/2018, you wrote: > > At 07:29 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: > > Right You Are Charlie: > > Here is another thought? > In the AC world there is a thing know as a Ground Fault Interrupt (GFI) > ... Barry > > > > > So I'll correct my earlier assertion . . . GFIs > don't exist for aircraft. In fact, they wouldn't > work in a system that specifically uses airframe > ground as the return power path. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:39 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? From: "user9253" A GFCI protects people from electricity. In an airplane, what we need is something to protect electricity from people. :-) -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484054#484054 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? From: C&K Actually I think you will find that a GFI activates when the outgoing and incoming current does not match. ie there is current going somewhere other than the intended load. I don't see how you can compare the two values if a device does not have a dedicated return ground wire. Residential GFI's trip upon seeing about 5 ma difference. I don't see that AC or DC matters but I'm open to learning something new. Ken On 28/10/2018 12:27 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > Bob: > > Of course GFI will not work on planes, not as yet! The present GFI for > homes uses inductance in the AC circuit. Our planes are DC, > inductance is not there, AC is not there! > The type of Ground does not matter. > > Barry > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:59 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > wrote: > > At 09:41 AM 10/26/2018, you wrote: >> At 07:29 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: >>> Right You Are Charlie: >>> >>> Here is another thought? >>> In the AC world there is a thing know as a Ground Fault >>> Interrupt (GFI) ... Barry > >> > > So I'll correct my earlier assertion . . . GFIs > don't exist for aircraft. In fact, they wouldn't > work in a system that specifically uses airframe > ground as the return power path. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:35 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? Bob: You are a COMPANY MAN, you think too much of ridiculous things like the CO$T to install a device. The fellows out there do not think of the "cost/benefit ratio" , for if they did they would NEVER build a plane. Guys, if you think my statement is incorrect just sit down and work out thee TRUE hours you invested in the building of your plane. At a Very Conservative rate of say $2.00 / Hour - Just In Labor - Work out how much your plane has cost you. Then take the $2.00 / Hr rate and replace it with your TRUE hourly work rate that you are being paid in your current job. Even if you worked at McDonald's - Considering their hourly rate... Your plane would be worth Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars and that is JUST for the LABOR! On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:44 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 08:05 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: > > Thanks Don, > > Ya know guys, the circuit is so simple it can be added to a CB.=C3=82 pr obably > easier than a fuse. > Good for the CB that is out of the standard field of view. > > Barry > > > But what is the cost/benefit ratio? 99.99% of all > breakers/fuses installed in all vehicles at the > factory go to the junkyard never having been > tasked to do their job. > > > For every fault that takes a system down by > opening the power feeder protection, there > are MANY more faults equally deleterious > to system operation that do not open the > feeder protection. > Barry - Yeah, so??? I don't see your point. Are you concerned about the CO$T again? Or the Quantity of indicating fuses/CB'ers installed? It does not have to be on every fuse/CB, only the ones the Builder/Pilot thinks they would like a bit more information from. > > When circuit protection does operate in > a thoughtfully designed system, the thing > is broke. Resetting the breaker or replacing > the fuse will not bring it back. > Barry - It WON'T!!!??? Then why even have a resealable CB? Why is the in-flight procedure of Resetting a CB only once while in the air, taught? There is one poor design on a certified plane where the Strobes and the Boost Pump are on the same CB. There have been reports where if the Boost Pump is left on during Start the CB will pop. Of course a smart pilot will shut-off the boost pump after the system is pressurized. But, human nature being what it is... Pilots will forget to shut-off the boost pump. So, I guess a resealable CB is a wast of money? > The pilot's first clue that something is > amiss is when an expected event doesn't > occur on the airplane . . . but what value > is there in knowing the state of power > feeder protection? The reason for malfunction > is not relevant to the pilot's prime > directive: effect a return to earth > without bending airplanes or people. > Barry - Yeah! There is NO Value in saving a few seconds and calming the mind when something goes wrong and does not function as it should. I guess that is why companies like E.I., JPI and Safe Air have separate Idiot Lights so they can be mounted directly in your field of view. Just to warn you seconds sooner... Any IFR pilots out there? Anyone have a Low Vacuum Warning Light? Get rid of it. You don't need it! Bob said so. Whoops, I'm VFR and I have one on my VFR plane! Not for long as I'm going G5. Indicating fuses are cute but the feature > saves only seconds of diagnostic time which > is done on the ground. > Barry - O! I guess you and no one else out there EVER experienced a fuse or CB to pop in the air??? I think you should go back and read past posts of electrical/alternator issues where they popped ONLY during flight! Your Green is showing! It was ONLY a thought. Barry > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? From: Dick Tasker Inductance has nothing particularly to do with a GFCI and one could pretty easily make a GFCI to work with DC. However, the circuit requires a three wire source - hot, neutral and ground - which is why Bob is saying it won't work in airplanes with only a hot and ground. The GFCI measures the difference in current between the hot and the neutral wires. Any amount over a defined limit causes it to trip, assuming the difference is going into the ground wire rather the neutral return - probably a bad thing (leakage to a motor housing, submersion of the appliance, etc.). What you are really wanting is not a GFCI, but an electronic breaker that will respond instantly to an overload. Of course this is easily done. The problem is to make it work reliably and not nuisance trip on every minor transient in the system - which is why we still use fuses and/or breakers. Dick Tasker FLYaDIVE wrote: > Bob: > > Of course GFI will not work on planes, not as yet! The present GFI for homes uses inductance in the AC circuit. Our planes are DC, inductance is not there, AC is not there! > The type of Ground does not matter. > > Barry > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:59 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: > > At 09:41 AM 10/26/2018, you wrote: >> At 07:29 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: >>> Right You Are Charlie: >>> >>> Here is another thought? >>> In the AC world there is a thing know as a Ground Fault Interrupt (GFI) ... Barry > >> > > So I'll correct my earlier assertion . . . GFIs > don't exist for aircraft. In fact, they wouldn't > work in a system that specifically uses airframe > ground as the return power path. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:26 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? Great Response Joe! GREAT! After all, LQQK at all that electricity as done for you! But, what have your you done for Electricity! I'm still smiling and laughing - GREAT RESPONSE! Barry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? From: Dick Tasker Not sure how long it has taken you to build your plane, but mine certainly isn't worth hundreds of thousands at the McDonald's rate. Yes, at the rate of my actual job it would start getting into that range, but I didn't build to save money (although some people do). I could have just purchased a plane, but I built it for the fun and education experience and ability to modify it how I want to. And Bob is not averse to spending money. He is just averse to spending money where it really has no useful benefit. But he certainly doesn't have a problem if you want to spend money on your plane for what you think is worth it. On the other hand, money spent on something with no significant benefit is money not available for gas and actually flying. Dick Tasker FLYaDIVE wrote: > Bob: > > You are a COMPANY MAN, you think too much of ridiculous things like the CO$T to install a device. > The fellows out there do not think of the "cost/benefit ratio" , for if they did they would NEVER build a plane. > Guys, if you think my statement is incorrect just sit down and work out thee TRUE hours you invested in the building of your plane. > At a Very Conservative rate of say $2.00 / Hour - Just In Labor - Work out how much your plane has cost you. > Then take the $2.00 / Hr rate and replace it with your TRUE hourly work rate that you are being paid in your current job. > Even if you worked at McDonald's - Considering their hourly rate... Your plane would be worth Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars and that is JUST for the LABOR! > > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:44 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: > > At 08:05 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: >> Thanks Don, >> >> Ya know guys, the circuit is so simple it can be added to a CB. probably easier than a fuse. >> Good for the CB that is out of the standard field of view. >> >> Barry > > But what is the cost/benefit ratio? 99.99% of all > breakers/fuses installed in all vehicles at the > factory go to the junkyard never having been > tasked to do their job. > > For every fault that takes a system down by > opening the power feeder protection, there > are MANY more faults equally deleterious > to system operation that do not open the > feeder protection. > > Barry - Yeah, so??? I don't see your point. > Are you concerned about the CO$T again? > Or the Quantity of indicating fuses/CB'ers installed? > It does not have to be on every fuse/CB, only the ones the Builder/Pilot thinks they would like a bit more information from. > > > When circuit protection does operate in > a thoughtfully designed system, the thing > is broke. Resetting the breaker or replacing > the fuse will not bring it back. > > Barry - It WON'T!!!??? > Then why even have a resealable CB? > Why is the in-flight procedure of Resetting a CB only once while in the air, taught? > There is one poor design on a certified plane where the Strobes and the Boost Pump are on the same CB. There have been reports where if the Boost Pump is left on during Start the CB will pop. Of > course a smart pilot will shut-off the boost pump after the system is pressurized. But, human nature being what it is... Pilots will forget to shut-off the boost pump. So, I guess a resealable CB > is a wast of money? > > > The pilot's first clue that something is > amiss is when an expected event doesn't > occur on the airplane . . . but what value > is there in knowing the state of power > feeder protection? The reason for malfunction > is not relevant to the pilot's prime > directive: effect a return to earth > without bending airplanes or people. > > Barry - Yeah! There is NO Value in saving a few seconds and calming the mind when something goes wrong and does not function as it should. I guess that is why companies like E.I., JPI and Safe Air > have separate Idiot Lights so they can be mounted directly in your field of view. > Just to warn you seconds sooner... Any IFR pilots out there? Anyone have a Low Vacuum Warning Light? Get rid of it. You don't need it! Bob said so. > Whoops, I'm VFR and I have one on my VFR plane! > Not for long as I'm going G5. > Indicating fuses are cute but the feature > > saves only seconds of diagnostic time which > is done on the ground. > > Barry - O! I guess you and no one else out there EVER experienced a fuse or CB to pop in the air??? > I think you should go back and read past posts of electrical/alternator issues where they popped ONLY during flight! > > Your Green is showing! > > It was ONLY a thought. > > Barry > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? From: Harley Dixon Don't forget to take into consideration the FUTURE costs of building your own plane. The MUCH lower cost of adding new, not necessarily STC'd, equipment, and the saving when doing your own maintenance and annuals...even at a high initial cost (IF you consider the hours when you would normally be watching football!) in the end, it's far less costly to own and operate a plane you've built. And, as Dick said, the experience and education of building your own and the satisfaction of flying something you built is priceless. And, that's why I built my Long EZ! Harley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 10/28/2018 1:41 PM, Dick Tasker wrote: > > > Not sure how long it has taken you to build your plane, but mine > certainly isn't worth hundreds of thousands at the McDonald's rate. > > Yes, at the rate of my actual job it would start getting into that > range, but I didn't build to save money (although some people do). I > could have just purchased a plane, but I built it for the fun and > education experience and ability to modify it how I want to. > > And Bob is not averse to spending money. He is just averse to > spending money where it really has no useful benefit. But he > certainly doesn't have a problem if you want to spend money on your > plane for what you think is worth it. On the other hand, money spent > on something with no significant benefit is money not available for > gas and actually flying. > > Dick Tasker > > FLYaDIVE wrote: >> Bob: >> >> You are a COMPANY MAN, you think too much of ridiculous things like >> the CO$T to install a device. >> The fellows out there do not think of the "cost/benefit ratio" , for >> if they did they would NEVER build a plane. >> Guys, if you think my statement is incorrect just sit down and work >> out thee TRUE hours you invested in the building of your plane. >> At a Very Conservative rate of say $2.00 / Hour - Just In Labor - >> Work out how much your plane has cost you. >> Then take the $2.00 / Hr rate and replace it with your TRUE hourly >> work rate that you are being paid in your current job. >> Even if you worked at McDonald's - Considering their hourly rate... >> Your plane would be worth Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars and that >> is JUST for the LABOR! >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:44 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III >> > > wrote: >> >> At 08:05 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: >>> Thanks Don, >>> >>> Ya know guys, the circuit is so simple it can be added to a CB. >>> probably easier than a fuse. >>> Good for the CB that is out of the standard field of view. >>> >>> Barry >> >> But what is the cost/benefit ratio? 99.99% of all >> breakers/fuses installed in all vehicles at the >> factory go to the junkyard never having been >> tasked to do their job. >> >> For every fault that takes a system down by >> opening the power feeder protection, there >> are MANY more faults equally deleterious >> to system operation that do not open the >> feeder protection. >> >> Barry - Yeah, so??? I don't see your point. >> Are you concerned about the CO$T again? >> Or the Quantity of indicating fuses/CB'ers installed? >> It does not have to be on every fuse/CB, only the ones the >> Builder/Pilot thinks they would like a bit more information from. >> >> >> When circuit protection does operate in >> a thoughtfully designed system, the thing >> is broke. Resetting the breaker or replacing >> the fuse will not bring it back. >> >> Barry - It WON'T!!!??? >> Then why even have a resealable CB? >> Why is the in-flight procedure of Resetting a CB only once while in >> the air, taught? >> There is one poor design on a certified plane where the Strobes and >> the Boost Pump are on the same CB. There have been reports where if >> the Boost Pump is left on during Start the CB will pop. Of course a >> smart pilot will shut-off the boost pump after the system is >> pressurized. But, human nature being what it is... Pilots will >> forget to shut-off the boost pump. So, I guess a resealable CB is a >> wast of money? >> >> >> The pilot's first clue that something is >> amiss is when an expected event doesn't >> occur on the airplane . . . but what value >> is there in knowing the state of power >> feeder protection? The reason for malfunction >> is not relevant to the pilot's prime >> directive: effect a return to earth >> without bending airplanes or people. >> >> Barry - Yeah! There is NO Value in saving a few seconds and calming >> the mind when something goes wrong and does not function as it >> should. I guess that is why companies like E.I., JPI and Safe Air >> have separate Idiot Lights so they can be mounted directly in your >> field of view. >> Just to warn you seconds sooner... Any IFR pilots out there? Anyone >> have a Low Vacuum Warning Light? Get rid of it. You don't need it! >> Bob said so. >> Whoops, I'm VFR and I have one on my VFR plane! >> Not for long as I'm going G5. >> Indicating fuses are cute but the feature >> >> saves only seconds of diagnostic time which >> is done on the ground. >> >> Barry - O! I guess you and no one else out there EVER experienced a >> fuse or CB to pop in the air??? >> I think you should go back and read past posts of >> electrical/alternator issues where they popped ONLY during flight! >> >> Your Green is showing! >> >> It was ONLY a thought. >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:27 AM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? All, There appears to be a lot of mythology surrounding GFCIs (Ground Fault Circ uit Interrupters) or GFI for short. Here's how they work: 1. GFI are anti-electrocution devices.=C2- Not over-current protection de vices. (A very common mis-conception) 2. The GFI measures the current on both legs of the circuit, the hot and th e neutral. 3. If it detects and imbalance between the two legs, it trips.=C2- It has nothing to do with the magnitude of the overall current.=C2- That's what the circuit breaker is for.=C2- I think the imbalance is as small as 5 m A (not sure but it is pretty small). The theory is that if, for example, the hot leg is conducting 1000 mA but t he current in the returning neutral is only 995mA, then 5mA of stray curren t is going somewhere bad, like thru your heart to ground.=C2- Side Note (for electrical contractors): Therefore a GFI cannot be use on a shared-neutral circuit - if you don't kn ow what that is, don't worry about it.=C2- It is a fairly common practice in house wiring. Comments:1. Since GFI are anti-electrocution devices, they are generally no t needed on low-voltage systems like the 12V ones in our planes. So they do n't really apply to OBAM stuff.2. In theory, you could make a 12v DC GFI us ing the same principle explained above.=C2- (But why bother?)=C2- It is not necessarily an AC or DC thing. -Jeff On Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:43 AM, FLYaDIVE wrot e: Bob: Of course GFI will not work on planes, not as yet! The present GFI for home s uses inductance in the AC circuit.=C2- Our planes are DC, inductance is not there, AC is not there!=C2-=C2-The type of Ground does not matter. =C2-=C2- Barry On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:59 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 09:41 AM 10/26/2018, you wrote: At 07:29 PM 10/25/2018, youwrote: Right You Are Charlie: Here is another thought? In the AC world there is a thing know as a Ground Fault Interrupt(GFI)=C2 - ...=C2- =C2- =C2-Barry =C2- =C2- So I'll correct my earlier assertion . . . GFIs =C2- don't exist for aircraft. In fact, they wouldn't =C2- work in a system that specifically uses airframe =C2- ground as the return power path. =C2- Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? At 11:27 AM 10/28/2018, you wrote: >Bob: > >Of course GFI will not work on planes, not as >yet! The present GFI for homes uses inductance >in the AC circuit.=C2 Our planes are DC, >inductance is not there, AC is not there!=C2 =C2 >The type of Ground does not matter. Emacs! The type of 'ground' does matter. The contemporary GFCI watches for an imbalance of current flow between the power (line) and return (neutral) pathways of a power distribution system. Any small imbalance between N and L manifest as signal in winding #2 which is processed and used to trip the switches and disconnect power. In this case, 'ground' is some stray pathway out in the environment. In our airplanes, there is no "N" conductor, that's the airframe and we call it 'ground'. The GFI is a prophylactic against human hazards and not intended to protect wiring from catastrophic overload. If fact, the GFI cannot detect the catastrophic overload. A downstream fault between L and N will still present as a 'balanced' condition which will not trip the GFI. The upstream circuit breaker's job is to stand off results of a catastrophic overload. Conflating the functionality of GFIs and CBs is in error. All, There appears to be a lot of mythology surrounding GFCIs (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters) or GFI for short. Here's how they work: 1. GFI are anti-electrocution devices. Not over-current protection devices. (A very common mis-conception) 2. The GFI measures the current on both legs of the circuit, the hot and the neutral. 3. If it detects and imbalance between the two legs, it trips. It has nothing to do with the magnitude of the overall current. That's what the circuit breaker is for. I think the imbalance is as small as 5 mA (not sure but it is pretty small). The theory is that if, for example, the hot leg is conducting 1000 mA but the current in the returning neutral is only 995mA, then 5mA of stray current is going somewhere bad, like thru your heart to ground. Side Note (for electrical contractors): Therefore a GFI cannot be use on a shared-neutral circuit - if you don't know what that is, don't worry about it. It is a fairly common practice in house wiring. Take it from a 'company man' . . . RIGHT ON. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:50 AM PST US From: John Tipton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? This is getting silly now - Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- > On 28 Oct 2018, at 5:41 pm, Dick Tasker wrote: > > > Not sure how long it has taken you to build your plane, but mine certainly isn't worth hundreds of thousands at the McDonald's rate. > > Yes, at the rate of my actual job it would start getting into that range, but I didn't build to save money (although some people do). I could have just purchased a plane, but I built it for the fun and education experience and ability to modify it how I want to. > > And Bob is not averse to spending money. He is just averse to spending money where it really has no useful benefit. But he certainly doesn't have a problem if you want to spend money on your plane for what you think is worth it. On the other hand, money spent on something with no significant benefit is money not available for gas and actually flying. > > Dick Tasker > > FLYaDIVE wrote: >> Bob: >> >> You are a COMPANY MAN, you think too much of ridiculous things like the CO$T to install a device. >> The fellows out there do not think of the "cost/benefit ratio" , for if they did they would NEVER build a plane. >> Guys, if you think my statement is incorrect just sit down and work out thee TRUE hours you invested in the building of your plane. >> At a Very Conservative rate of say $2.00 / Hour - Just In Labor - Work out how much your plane has cost you. >> Then take the $2.00 / Hr rate and replace it with your TRUE hourly work rate that you are being paid in your current job. >> Even if you worked at McDonald's - Considering their hourly rate... Your plane would be worth Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars and that is JUST for the LABOR! >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:44 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: >> >> At 08:05 PM 10/25/2018, you wrote: >>> Thanks Don, >>> >>> Ya know guys, the circuit is so simple it can be added to a CB. probably easier than a fuse. >>> Good for the CB that is out of the standard field of view. >>> >>> Barry >> >> But what is the cost/benefit ratio? 99.99% of all >> breakers/fuses installed in all vehicles at the >> factory go to the junkyard never having been >> tasked to do their job. >> >> For every fault that takes a system down by >> opening the power feeder protection, there >> are MANY more faults equally deleterious >> to system operation that do not open the >> feeder protection. >> >> Barry - Yeah, so??? I don't see your point. >> Are you concerned about the CO$T again? >> Or the Quantity of indicating fuses/CB'ers installed? >> It does not have to be on every fuse/CB, only the ones the Builder/Pilot thinks they would like a bit more information from. >> >> >> When circuit protection does operate in >> a thoughtfully designed system, the thing >> is broke. Resetting the breaker or replacing >> the fuse will not bring it back. >> >> Barry - It WON'T!!!??? >> Then why even have a resealable CB? >> Why is the in-flight procedure of Resetting a CB only once while in the air, taught? >> There is one poor design on a certified plane where the Strobes and the Boost Pump are on the same CB. There have been reports where if the Boost Pump is left on during Start the CB will pop. Of course a smart pilot will shut-off the boost pump after the system is pressurized. But, human nature being what it is... Pilots will forget to shut-off the boost pump. So, I guess a resealable CB is a wast of money? >> >> >> The pilot's first clue that something is >> amiss is when an expected event doesn't >> occur on the airplane . . . but what value >> is there in knowing the state of power >> feeder protection? The reason for malfunction >> is not relevant to the pilot's prime >> directive: effect a return to earth >> without bending airplanes or people. >> >> Barry - Yeah! There is NO Value in saving a few seconds and calming the mind when something goes wrong and does not function as it should. I guess that is why companies like E.I., JPI and Safe Air have separate Idiot Lights so they can be mounted directly in your field of view. >> Just to warn you seconds sooner... Any IFR pilots out there? Anyone have a Low Vacuum Warning Light? Get rid of it. You don't need it! Bob said so. >> Whoops, I'm VFR and I have one on my VFR plane! >> Not for long as I'm going G5. >> Indicating fuses are cute but the feature >> >> saves only seconds of diagnostic time which >> is done on the ground. >> >> Barry - O! I guess you and no one else out there EVER experienced a fuse or CB to pop in the air??? >> I think you should go back and read past posts of electrical/alternator issues where they popped ONLY during flight! >> >> Your Green is showing! >> >> It was ONLY a thought. >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:57 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Same rating for fuses and circuit breakers? Of course it is John, Of course it is! That is exactly my point! Barry ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:09 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reminder: Pumpkin Drop, next Saturday Just a reminder that our annual Pumpkin Drop is this week. 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