Today's Message Index:
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0. 04:05 AM - List Contribution - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Dual Battery Dual Alternator Power Distribution System (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 07:36 AM - Re: Dual Battery Dual Alternator Power Distribution System (DAVIDSON)
3. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Dual Battery Dual Alternator Power Distribution System (Bill Watson)
4. 04:38 PM - Fuse Replacement (Art Zemon)
5. 06:03 PM - Re: Fuse Replacement (Kelly McMullen)
6. 07:33 PM - Re: Fuse Replacement (user9253)
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Subject: | List Contribution - Value of the List... |
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Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Dual Battery Dual Alternator Power Distribution |
System
At 07:14 PM 11/8/2018, you wrote:
>"lwesterlund" <lance.westerlund@yahoo.com>
>
>Again, thanks for the detailed reply. Your
>approach certainly makes sense when using a
>conventional power bus. Afterall, what could
>possibly go wrong with a solid brass bus bar? It=99s darn near
bullet-proof.
>
>As I asked in my reply to Bob=99s response, what
>if you are using the VPX system? As robust as it
>is, it=99s still not as failure proof as a solid
>hunk of metal. Even with dual power feeds, it
>becomes a single point of failure. Hence my proposed design.
Set the VPX system up per installation
instructions. Add second alternator/battery
with a cross-feed to the VPX system.
Make the aux bus your E-bus
This isolates the VPX system's FMEA
shortfalls (assuming there are any) from
E-bus while retaining the feature that
everything has 4-sources of energy
that can be exploited as needed.
No dual feeds, 'emergency' switches, complex
Plan-B, etc.
KISS
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Dual Battery Dual Alternator Power Distribution |
System
[quote="lAs I asked in my reply to Bobs response, what if you are using the VPX
system? As robust as it is, its still not as failure proof as a solid hunk of
metal. Even with dual power feeds, it becomes a single point of failure. Hence
my proposed design.
[/quote]
I have an RV-7 in gestation. Here is my plan for implementing VPX-Pro in a dual-battery
(same) dual-alternator (60A and 20A) EFII-4R system.
1) Both batteries feed to battery bus (copper bar). Each battery contactor has
it's own switch.
2) Starter contactor on battery bus. Starter has momentary switch.
3) Battery bus connected to feed bus (copper bar) via 60A shunt.
4) Both alternators feed to feed bus via ANL (60A and 30A). Each alternator field
circuit has it's own switch.
5) Feed bus connects through firewall.
6) A 100A relay feeds the X-BUS (VPX-Pro).
7) A 100A relay feeds the E-BUS (12 circuit fuse box).
8) All circuits are driven by X-BUS.
9) 12 circuits are also driven by E-BUS (essential).
10) The 12 circuits (common to both buses) each feed to a 25A diode bridge rectifier
with the plus connection going to the device (sometimes switched).
The 12 common circuits are:
Primary Fuel (switched)
Backup Fuel (switched)
Primary Alt Field (switched)
Primary Alt Vsense
Secondary Alt Field (switched)
Secondary Alt Vsense
Ignition A
Ignition B
ECU A
ECU B
Injectors
Starter (switched)
It is okay to run with both batteries online or I can choose to start engine with
both then take one offline in cruise.
It is okay for both X-BUS and E-BUS to be online, but I plan to fly 99% on X-BUS
so I can monitor on DYNON SKYVIEW.
It is okay for both alternators to be online. The 60A regulator is set at 14.2V
and the 20A regulator is set at 13.7V.
It is okay for both fuel pumps to be on, but 99.9% of time I'll be on one or the
other.
The starter switch is hot when E-BUS is closed, but only hot when engine not running
when X-BUS is closed.
Feedback welcome.
--kevin--
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484723#484723
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Subject: | Re: Dual Battery Dual Alternator Power Distribution |
System
You are welcome! Looks like Bob has responded with a good solution that
follows the KISS principle, a hard to adhere to principle when all
options are available to the experimental builder.
Note that I took a fair amount of friendly heat from Bob when I was
considering the Z-14 for my '10 back in 2008-9. I think he called my
panel 'everything including the kitchen sink' and considered the Z-14
overkill even for a 'kitchen sink' installation. As I mentioned before,
I fell for the simple symmetry of the design. But beauty and simplicity
are in the eye of the beholder I suppose though it took a few years of
operation before I learned to not only to implement the design as
specified, but then to operate it in the proper way. Having done the
former and slowly adopted the latter, I now can fully appreciate the
robustness of the thing.
I'm currently starting an upgrade of my panel to include (1) larger
GRT HXr screen and replacement of some pneumatic backup instruments and
a Trutrak ADI with the Horis EFIS from kanardia. Your VPX/flap
protection caught my eye because of a decision I just made about my flap
switch. So I've included that and a few other comments below just for
kicks.
On 11/8/2018 8:14 PM, lwesterlund wrote:
>
> Again, thanks for the detailed reply. Your approach certainly makes sense when
using a conventional power bus. Afterall, what could possibly go wrong with
a solid brass bus bar? Its darn near bullet-proof.
Right. I would note that I don't really have any 'bus bars' per se. I
have 2 auto-grade fuse panels with power cables running from the
alternators/battery connection. That's all very solid and simple along
with crossfeed cabling at the battery mount. Very bullet-proof.
Fuse Panel by RH foot well
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=mauledriver&project=224&category=4043&log=64539&row=1>
>
> As I asked in my reply to Bobs response, what if you are using the VPX system?
As robust as it is, its still not as failure proof as a solid hunk of metal.
Even with dual power feeds, it becomes a single point of failure. Hence my proposed
design.
The first version of the VPX was available for my plane but just like
electronic ignition, I decided to keep those things old school; dual
Mags and hardwiring of everything in the power distribution systems. If
I did it again, I'd probably go with electronic ignition and investigate
the VPX again.
>
> If theres a better way that leverages that technology, Im all ears. But I dont
think you can just plop the VPX into the Z-14 architecture without modifying
it to resolve the new SPOF.
>
> I appreciate that the more conservative approach from a power system risk management
perspective is to simply use Z-14 as published. Im interested in the VPX
because, IMO, it helps to reduce other elements of risk. For instance, it prevents
deploying the flaps above Vfe, will detect and alert an open circuit (like
the pitot heater), and will control wig-wag lights.
Flaps: I currently use physically identical but labeled Honeywell
rockers for all my switches including the flap switch. I used physical
location to distinguish it from say landing lights.
My Panel with Honeywell Rockers
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=mauledriver&project=224&category=4053&log=122434&row=2>
With this current upgrade I was considering using a more classic flap
switch with a big toggle.
Aerosport Flap Switch <https://www.aerosportproducts.com/flapswitch.htm>
But now it's clear to me that it's too easy to accidentally hit that
switch in cruise flight. We move around on long flights and my wife
sometimes crawls to and from the back seat. The AP disconnect on the
stick has been accidentally hit more than once. The trim hat has been
hit. But that little Honeywell rocker is pretty much safe from
accidental acuation. I'm going to stick with it and just highlight it
graphically in case someone else ever flies my plane.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions or insights on how to include a VPX in a dual bat
dual alt system would be much appreciated.
Good Luck, you are going to love the RV-10!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484638#484638
>
>
---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Subject: | Fuse Replacement |
A little fun for a Friday evening
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuse Replacement |
It could be embellished by adding a penny and a dime.
On 11/9/2018 5:35 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> A little fun for a Friday evening
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Fuse Replacement |
The 2000 amp wrench reminds me of an incident that I had at work many years ago.
I was assigned to troubleshoot and repair a battery charger. This charger
was supplied by 480 volt 3 phase power. The battery was 48 volts and as big
as a large desk. The battery powered an electric hi-lo. I locked out the 480
volt supply but never thought about unplugging the remote "dead" battery. Even
discharged batteries have some stored energy. My wrench shorted out between
the bolt holding a large diode and a heatsink. And the wrench welded itself
in place. That is when I realized the remote battery was plugged in. As I walked
away, the wrench turned red hot. At 6 feet away, the wrench turned white
hot and melted in half. The whole incident lasted about 5 seconds or so. Is
that considered slow blow? :D
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484734#484734
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