Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (zwakie)
2. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: A brown-out alternative? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (user9253)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: A brown-out alternative? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (user9253)
6. 07:24 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (zwakie)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (zwakie)
8. 08:40 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (user9253)
9. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: A brown-out alternative? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:47 PM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (zwakie)
11. 05:40 PM - DC - DC Converter (Rocketman1988)
12. 06:02 PM - Re: DC - DC Converter (Charlie England)
13. 06:09 PM - Re: DC - DC Converter (Art Zemon)
14. 06:51 PM - Re: DC - DC Converter (Rocketman1988)
15. 07:07 PM - Re: DC - DC Converter (user9253)
16. 07:29 PM - Re: DC - DC Converter (Rocketman1988)
17. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: DC - DC Converter (Gerald Champagne)
18. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: DC - DC Converter (don van santen)
19. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: DC - DC Converter (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
I like this approach very much for all the reasons Bob mentions in is opening post.
I would have expected a relay 'solution' could be even simpler than that: I would
expect no more than what I have drawn up quickly as in attached schema.
I am however struggling to understand the way Bob has wired the S704, so please
enlighten this not-so-electro-savvy-person: what is/are the fundamental difference(s)
between Bob's schema and what I have come up with?
I suspect it has to do with the timing aspects mentioned, but don't see why 'my'
lesser-component approach would not take care of those.
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485340#485340
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2018_11_20_at_141613_843.png
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 07:25 AM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>I like this approach very much for all the reasons Bob mentions in
>is opening post.
>
>I would have expected a relay 'solution' could be even simpler than
>that: I would expect no more than what I have drawn up quickly as in
>attached schema.
>
>I am however struggling to understand the way Bob has wired the
>S704, so please enlighten this not-so-electro-savvy-person: what
>is/are the fundamental difference(s) between Bob's schema and what I
>have come up with?
>
>I suspect it has to do with the timing aspects mentioned, but don't
>see why 'my' lesser-component approach would not take care of those.
Yes . . . timing. (1) You want the e-bus to be
'boosted' BEFORE the starter current begins
to flow and (2) remain boosted until AFTER
the starter current is interrupted. We're
talking tens of milliseconds here. The working
hypothesis: the S704 wired as shown will offer
a substantial drop-out delay (instigated by the
catch diode on the coil). Hence it provides the
necessary physics for condition (2).
I'll confirm this with an experiment on the
bench but I think the hypothesis is sound.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
Marcel,
You are right about the timing. The purpose of the diode between the downstream
side of the start switch
and the DC-DC converter is to conduct instantaneous power during the time that
it takes the relay to close.
The purpose of the relay is to provide a delay opening the circuit to the DC-DC
converter.
If you want to simplify the circuit, leave out both the diode and the relay and
connect the DC-DC converter
in parallel with the starter contactor. As soon as the start button is pressed,
the DC-DC converter will be energized.
The pilot is not going to let go of the start button until the engine starts.
Once the engine has started,
even for a second, the battery voltage will be above 10 volts. Thus brownout protection
will be no longer needed.
What do you have to lose by trying it? If it doesn't work, no harm is done. There
will be brownout just like before experimenting.
I suggest that the E-Bus switch common pole be connected to the E-Bus so that
either the DC-DC converter
or battery is selected, but both can not be connected together at the same time.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485344#485344
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 07:25 AM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>I like this approach very much for all the reasons Bob mentions in
>is opening post.
>
>I would have expected a relay 'solution' could be even simpler than
>that: I would expect no more than what I have drawn up quickly as in
>attached schema.
>
>I am however struggling to understand the way Bob has wired the
>S704, so please enlighten this not-so-electro-savvy-person: what
>is/are the fundamental difference(s) between Bob's schema and what I
>have come up with?
>
>I suspect it has to do with the timing aspects mentioned, but don't
>see why 'my' lesser-component approach would not take care of those.
Yes . . . timing. (1) You want the e-bus to be
'boosted' BEFORE the starter current begins
to flow and (2) remain boosted until AFTER
the starter current is interrupted. We're
talking tens of milliseconds here. The working
hypothesis: the S704 wired as shown will offer
a substantial drop-out delay (instigated by the
catch diode on the coil). Hence it provides the
necessary physics for condition (2).
Oops, hit the send too soon.
The diode around the S704 goes to condition (1).
The diode in series with the output from the
boost module goes to our lack of knowledge as
to how well the boost module tolerates
'back feeding' when not being used. It may
not be necessary but it doesn't hurt anything
either. The extra diode is already part of our
old friend, the diode bridge rectifier.
I'll confirm this with an experiment on the
bench but I think the hypothesis is sound.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
Depending on the architecture of the DC-DC converter, a diode in series with its
output may or may not be needed.
I assume that the converter changes supply voltage to AC, transforms it to a higher
voltage, then rectifies
and filters the AC to change it back to a higher voltage DC. The rectifiers should
block reverse current flow.
But assumptions can be wrong.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485346#485346
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
Thanks Bob and Joe, thanks for your (very) quick replies ;), much appreciated!
So, let me rephrase to see if I understand the workings of Bob's schema correctly:
- the diode across the coil makes sure the relay opens tens of milliseconds later
than opening up the start switch, hopefully by then the voltage on the battery
by then has gone above brownout voltage (and you can replace this diode by
a capacitor to increase the delay if so required);
- the other diode in the line providing instantaneous power to the DC/DC converter
is there to make sure no electrons can reach the starter connector after the
start switch has been opened.
Joe, thanks for pointing out my oversight of connecting the DC/DC to the E-Bus
Switch common.
And for the two diodes: will any out of the 1N... series do?
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485350#485350
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
Which would then be integrated in my schema as shown below.
Any flaws with that?
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485351#485351
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2018_11_20_at_162946_965.png
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
The main purpose of a diode across the relay coil is to short out induced voltage
being generated by the
collapsing relay magnetic field. Without a diode or other voltage snubber, high
voltage can arc across
the contacts of the controlling switch, eventually damaging it. I would not replace
the diode with
a capacitor. Any arc suppression diode capable of conducting 1 amp or more will
do.
The diode in series with the DC-DC converter should be rated at least 10 amps.
There is no need for two separate circuits and fuses.
Regardless of one or two circuits, the fuse(s) needs to be able to handle the DC-DC
converter current.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485353#485353
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 10:39 AM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>The main purpose of a diode across the relay coil is to short out
>induced voltage being generated by the
>collapsing relay magnetic field. Without a diode or other voltage
>snubber, high voltage can arc across
>the contacts of the controlling switch, eventually damaging it.
Actually, a capacitor COULD be used to effect
drop-out delay per the t=rc constant of the
capacitor + coil resistance. But you would still
need a series diode to isolate the coil/capacitor
combo from the voltage source. A diode will do the same
thing per t=l/r but MAY prove to be too short.
The bench testing will deny/confirm the hypothesis.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
user9253 wrote:
> The main purpose of a diode across the relay coil is to short out induced voltage
being generated by the collapsing relay magnetic field.
Sure, I did not mention that as that seems obvious to me, but good to add as a
clarification. Thanks!
user9253 wrote:
> Any arc suppression diode capable of conducting 1 amp or more will do.
Okay.
user9253 wrote:
> The diode in series with the DC-DC converter should be rated at least 10 amps.
Yes, I can see why... (an even higher current rating might be required though,
depending on used DC/DC converter type and battery voltage drop when starter engine
spins up)
user9253 wrote:
> There is no need for two separate circuits and fuses.
You are right, having thought about it a bit more I even think it is not a good
idea to use two fuses as there is no way of knowing during preflight checking
if one of the two fuses was blown, so you would not know that the circuit can
only carry half the design current. Better to go with an XOR type of design...
user9253 wrote:
> Regardless of one or two circuits, the fuse(s) needs to be able to handle the
DC-DC converter current.
Sure enough (as do the wires ;) ).
Thanks again Joe for further explanations.
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485361#485361
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| Subject: | DC - DC Converter |
Anyone have a recommendation on a 12VDC to 5VDC converter that is too noisy?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485375#485375
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
Check with Steinair=2E
=81=A3Charlie=8B
On Nov 20, 2018, 8:44 PM
, at 8:44 PM, Rocketman1988 <rocketman@etczone=2Ecom> wrote:
>--> AeroElect
ric-List message posted by: "Rocketman1988"
><Rocketman@etczone=2Ecom>
>
>A
nyone have a recommendation on a 12VDC to 5VDC converter that is too
>noisy
?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/
viewtopic=2Ephp?p=485375#485375
>
>
=
= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
s the Annual List Fund Raiser=2E Click on
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
I bought this $25 wonder from Aircraft Spruce.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/eadualusbpanel.php
I have not flow with it yet but I expect that it will be just fine. Big
plus for me was that it installs in a round hole.
-- Art Z.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:02 PM Rocketman1988 <Rocketman@etczone.com> wrote:
> Rocketman@etczone.com>
>
> Anyone have a recommendation on a 12VDC to 5VDC converter that is too
> noisy?
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."*
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
Thanks. I am really looking for a 5v supply to drive some servos. There are plenty
of switching regulators out there but I am curious as to the effect on the
radios...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485381#485381
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
There is a thread on VansAirforce about 5 volt USB ports.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=87369
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485382#485382
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
Not looking for a USB port. Looking for a 5v power supply that will power some
servos and have minimal EMI for the radios...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485383#485383
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
You could use something like this that's specifically designed to power
servos that are sitting right next to a radio receiver:
http://home.castlecreations.com/becs
http://www.castlecreations.com/en/accessories-5/cc-bec-010-0004-00
They're small, they're cheap, they're RF friendly, and the output voltage
is programmable. I've used them on several RC projects and they work great.
Gerald
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:33 PM Rocketman1988 <Rocketman@etczone.com> wrote:
> Rocketman@etczone.com>
>
> Not looking for a USB port. Looking for a 5v power supply that will power
> some servos and have minimal EMI for the radios...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485383#485383
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
Or try Max Products Inc's rc regulators.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 19:54 Gerald Champagne <gerald.champagne@gmail.com
wrote:
> You could use something like this that's specifically designed to power
> servos that are sitting right next to a radio receiver:
>
> http://home.castlecreations.com/becs
>
> http://www.castlecreations.com/en/accessories-5/cc-bec-010-0004-00
>
> They're small, they're cheap, they're RF friendly, and the output voltage
> is programmable. I've used them on several RC projects and they work great.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:33 PM Rocketman1988 <Rocketman@etczone.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Rocketman@etczone.com>
>>
>> Not looking for a USB port. Looking for a 5v power supply that will
>> power some servos and have minimal EMI for the radios...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485383#485383
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> br> fts!)
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>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
If you want to run your ow, I have very good experience with Traco
Power DC-DC converters, they come
in all kind of varieties, also high power once, they are clean and
work perfect since over 15 years in my plane
Mouser does sell them
Cheers Werner
On 21.11.2018 03:51, Rocketman1988 wrote:
>
> Thanks. I am really looking for a 5v supply to drive some servos. There are
plenty of switching regulators out there but I am curious as to the effect on
the radios...
>
>
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