---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/05/18: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Ken) 2. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Ken Ryan) 4. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Ken Ryan) 5. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Charlie England) 7. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Ken Ryan) 9. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Art Zemon) 10. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone (Rick Beebe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone From: Ken Well it would work. But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating device when no one is around entails some risk anyway... Ken On 2018-12-04 11:16 p.m., Ken Ryan wrote: > Okay, so an automotive relay like we would use on our airplanes would be > okay for this application, too. I have a few lying around. > > On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:52 PM user9253 > wrote: > > > > > You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store. > Ignore the B beside the battery. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486135#486135 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater__116.jpg > > > > ========== > br> fts!) > r> > e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ========== > - > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone At 06:46 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote: > >Well it would work. >But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly >isn't rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an >insurance investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind >of heating device when no one is around entails some risk anyway... >Ken The S704 style plastic relays are quite suited to this task. According to the users manual, output from the device is a set of form-c dry contacts rated at 3A so a 'buffer relay' is called for. Consider a solid state device like this https://tinyurl.com/y9qh9wq4 You can use the n.o./common contacts of the receiver to control power to the SSR input. You can 'steal' power from the same supply that operates the receiver. There are no regulatory issues (aside from local fire marshals) for this project. If it's not bolted to the airframe, it's of no interest to the feds. I'd mount the receiver and solid state relay on the wall of the hangar and provide an outlet to an extension cord that powers the Tanis heater in its normal operating configuration. Risks (beyond failure to function) are zero. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:31 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe. On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:04 PM user9253 wrote: > > Here is a schematic diagram. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486130#486130 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater_173.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:48 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Okay change of plan, thanks much Bob. Ken On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 06:58 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com wrote: > At 06:46 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote: > > > Well it would work. > But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't > rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance > investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating device > when no one is around entails some risk anyway... > Ken > > > The S704 style plastic relays are quite > suited to this task. According to the > users manual, output from the device > is a set of form-c dry contacts rated > at 3A so a 'buffer relay' is called for. > > Consider a solid state device like this > > https://tinyurl.com/y9qh9wq4 > > You can use the n.o./common contacts > of the receiver to control power to > the SSR input. You can 'steal' power > from the same supply that operates the > receiver. > > There are no regulatory issues (aside > from local fire marshals) for this > project. If it's not bolted to the airframe, > it's of no interest to the feds. > > I'd mount the receiver and solid state relay > on the wall of the hangar and provide an > outlet to an extension cord that powers > the Tanis heater in its normal operating > configuration. Risks (beyond failure to > function) are zero. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote: >Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay >would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the >RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the >Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly >untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much >simpler. Thanks Joe. Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . . one COULD use the receiver's built in relay although I'd still tend toward adding the buffer relay with the following caveats: Current through the receiver's relay contacts is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some period of time in service, corrosion build on the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but still something to throw in the trouble-shooting bucket if the critter quits. If you elect to use the built in relay, then contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason, current in that loop is faulted, it would be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal relay (probably not easy to replace). Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine? My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out a lot more heat but they had to play catchup in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night may well be enough. Learned something new today. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone From: Charlie England On 12/5/2018 12:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote: >> Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay >> would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the >> RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the >> Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly >> untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much >> simpler. Thanks Joe. > > Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . . > one COULD use the receiver's built in > relay although I'd still tend toward adding > the buffer relay with the following caveats: > > Current through the receiver's relay contacts > is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some > period of time in service, corrosion build on > the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the > n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but > still something to throw in the trouble-shooting > bucket if the critter quits. > > If you elect to use the built in relay, then > contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I > think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac > power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason, > current in that loop is faulted, it would > be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal > relay (probably not easy to replace). > > Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine? > My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out > a lot more heat but they had to play catchup > in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night > may well be enough. Learned something new today. > > > Bob . . . > Probably using something like this: http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB bonded directly to the oil pan. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone >> . . >Probably using something like this: >http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB >bonded directly to the oil pan. cool! Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:57 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Bob, the Tanis is well documented to work extremely well. There are five bolts that replace engine bolts (one for each cylinder, and one in the engine case) that act as resistance heaters and there is also a pad to heat the oil in the Rotax external oil tank, so the heat goes directly into the engine. Here is a link to a short 11:19 video showing careful testing under controlled conditions: https://rotax-owner.com/en/videos-topmenu/product-reviews/149-tanis Ken On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 9:51 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote: > > Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would > be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well > rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and > so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the > RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe. > > > Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . . > one COULD use the receiver's built in > relay although I'd still tend toward adding > the buffer relay with the following caveats: > > Current through the receiver's relay contacts > is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some > period of time in service, corrosion build on > the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the > n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but > still something to throw in the trouble-shooting > bucket if the critter quits. > > If you elect to use the built in relay, then > contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I > think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac > power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason, > current in that loop is faulted, it would > be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal > relay (probably not easy to replace). > > Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine? > My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out > a lot more heat but they had to play catchup > in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night > may well be enough. Learned something new today. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:42 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Bob, I don't know about Tanis. I have a Reiff with a 50W band around each cylinder and a 100W pad on the oil sump. -- Art Z. On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:04 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine? > My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."* ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone From: Rick Beebe I have the Reiff turbo system with 100W cylinder bands, TWO 100w pads on the sump and a 100W pad on the oil cooler. It's 700W. Last week I left it plugged in over night (28 degree low) and when I went flying in the morning the oil was at 121 degrees. If I plug it in before flight at that temp it's at least an hour before I'm comfortable with the engine temperature. The dragon can more or less do it in a quarter of that time. --Rick On 12/5/2018 3:11 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Bob, > > I don't know about Tanis. I have a Reiff with a 50W band around each > cylinder and a 100W pad on the oil sump. > > -- Art Z. > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:04 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > wrote: > > Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine? > My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.