---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/10/18: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:20 AM - Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? (GTH) 2. 09:40 AM - Re: Ford Voltage Regulator (Sebastien) 3. 09:55 AM - Fw: [FlyRotary] avionics minefields.... (Charlie England) 4. 12:02 PM - Re: Ford Voltage Regulator (user9253) 5. 12:22 PM - Re: Ford Voltage Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 12:30 PM - Re: Cheap bench supply? (Charlie England) 7. 07:45 PM - Re: Cheap bench supply? (ashleysc@broadstripe.net) 8. 08:44 PM - Re: Cheap bench supply? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 09:00 PM - Wiring Harness Questions (speedy11@aol.com) 10. 10:13 PM - Re: Cheap bench supply? (Sebastien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? From: GTH /Le 09/12/2018 16:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit: / > / > Nonetheless, this antenna is not suitable > for use on a totally composite aircraft > as it depends on metallic structure for > a ground plane./ Bob, Thank you for taking the time to answer. As mentioned in a previous message, we have had great success with Bob Archer's wingtip antenna, possibly due to the carbon fiber wing playing the role of the metallic structure ? We took special care to ensure good electrical contact between the antenna ground element and the carbon wing skin. Also our wingtip curves up to vertical, so the radiating element is nearly vertical, which may have helped. Our VHF range is currently 100/150 nautical miles @ 2000 ft QNH, and of course much more (though useless) at higher altitudes. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:53 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ford Voltage Regulator Well it's working now but not the way I expected. I rewired everything to match Z-11 (except for the OVM, it's on its way) and started the engine, no juice: Battery volts only. Further investigation revealed that the builder thought the current limiter base was the actual current limiter. Installed the current limiter and everything now works fine. Which leads me to wonder, while the engine was running and there was no current load on the alternator, what were the regulator and alternator doing? I assume that the regulator seeing a constant 12 V would be driving the alternator to maximum voltage in order to try to raise the bus voltage. How high a voltage can one of these alternators produce at 2000 RPM? On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 8:53 AM Sebastien wrote: > So for any VR166 regulator and Ford type alternator combination wire as > per Z-11. > > Thank you Bob. > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 08:46 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com wrote: > >> At 09:18 PM 11/24/2018, you wrote: >> >> Z-11 shows the S wire of the Ford regulator tied in to the A terminal. >> Our Hartzell alternator has a dedicated Sta terminal so I'm guessing that >> the S terminal of the regulator should go to the Sta terminal on the >> alternator instead of being tied into the alternator switch going to the A >> terminal? Can anyone please confirm if this makes sense or not? >> >> >> The "s" terminal did go to the stator >> winding in cars . . . but is best >> paralleled with "a" in airplanes. >> Ignore the aux, n or s terminals on >> the alternator. >> >> >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Alternator_Data/Legacy_EM_Regulator_(Ford).pdf >> >> >> This is because the solid state replacement >> for the Ford E-M regulator is NOT a >> strictly functional replacement. The "S" >> terminal does not behave in the same >> manner as it did on the E-M products. >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:58 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: [FlyRotary] avionics minefields.... This is a cross-post; I also sent it to an alternative engine list where I'm a member. Hope it's useful. Charlie If any of you guys out there tend toward OCD and are currently wiring your plane, here's a heads-up. I probably know too much (or maybe not enough) for my own good about electrical stuff, including issues like electrical noise & ground loops. So when I created the wiring harnesses for my RV-7 a couple of years ago, I tried to make sure I avoided ground-related issues by carefully routing grounds *exactly* where they should be according to the avionics documentation, and making my best educated guess when I couldn't find any good documentation. Well, I laid a couple of mines, & didn't step on them until I installed the instruments to do a test powerup, prior to closing out the fuselage. The intercom wouldn't power up, and neither would my Anderson engine monitor. After spending a couple of days digging through my extensive (but not very well done) notes, I found the sources of my problems. The intercom has a 'floating' chassis, and you're directed to run the ground wire to the radio. I did this; running the ground to the power ground in the GNS430's tray. I also thought it would be smart to ground the Anderson monitor to the main ground point in the EC-2, so I tied it to pins 19 & 37, which are then grounded to the engine block. (I documented the power connections well, but the ground side...not so much.) So on my 1st real power-up test of the system, not wanting to put multiple high dollar instruments at risk, I only powered or installed a single instrument at a time. Anyone see the mines yet? Charlie Virus-free. www.avast.com <#m_-783036987977688554_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:35 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ford Voltage Regulator From: "user9253" No personal experience, but from what I have read, an alternator can put out well over 100 volts when lightly loaded and field current at maximum. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486212#486212 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ford Voltage Regulator At 11:39 AM 12/10/2018, you wrote: >Well it's working now but not the way I expected. I rewired >everything to match Z-11 (except for the OVM, it's on its way) and >started the engine, no juice: Battery volts only. Further >investigation revealed that the builder thought the current limiter >base was the actual current limiter. Installed the current limiter >and everything now works fine. > >Which leads me to wonder, while the engine was running and there was >no current load on the alternator, what were the regulator and >alternator doing? I assume that the regulator seeing a constant 12 V >would be driving the alternator to maximum voltage in order to try >to raise the bus voltage. How high a voltage can one of these >alternators produce at 2000 RPM? Without knowing the alternator's minimum rpm for regulation value, it cannot be predicted accurately . . . but it IS pretty high. A runaway alternator on a Lycoming (hi ratio belt drive) at cruise rpm can be spectacular. Probably over 200 volts. Fortunately, the only risk for no-load operation is to the rectifiers. If everything seems normal after the critter was properly wired, then the rectifiers are probably okay. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:50 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap bench supply? On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM Charlie England wrote: > Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap lab > supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the most > recent reference I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll get > minimal use; just final checkout of my project's wiring and then rare uses > after that, so don't want to spend $hundreds. > 0-30v/0-10a bench supply > > > Thanks, > > Charlie > Well, I said I'd publish a pirep once I received the unit, so here we go. The unit seems to work just fine, with a couple of 'idiosyncrasies'. The controls are analog, as you'd expect from the pairs of coarse & fine adjustment knobs. The only frustrating thing is that current limit is set by setting voltage to some reasonably low value, setting current to minimum, shorting out the + & - terminals, and then dialing up the current knobs to the desired limit. Then remove the short and connect your load. At loads less than the current set point, the voltage display shows your set point voltage (actual output voltage). The current display will vary between zero and the current set point, depending on actual load. Once the current limit is reached, voltage (and the displayed voltage, of course) falls to limit current to the preset level. Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not see the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you actually hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires going back through the limit setting for each new work session, unless you trust that the current limit knobs haven't been touched since the last session. The ideal supply would have both set point and output displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-) Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to the $hundreds required for lab grade supplies. Charlie Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:22 PM PST US From: ashleysc@broadstripe.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap bench supply? Hi Charlie; Bought one. Haven't used it yet. Check back. Cheers! Stu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 12:29:39 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap bench supply? On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM Charlie England < ceengland7@gmail.com > wrote: Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap lab supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the most recent reference I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll get minimal use; just final checkout of my project's wiring and then rare uses after that, so don't want to spend $hundreds. 0-30v/0-10a bench supply Thanks, Charlie Well, I said I'd publish a pirep once I received the unit, so here we go. The unit seems to work just fine, with a couple of 'idiosyncrasies'. The controls are analog, as you'd expect from the pairs of coarse & fine adjustment knobs. The only frustrating thing is that current limit is set by setting voltage to some reasonably low value, setting current to minimum, shorting out the + & - terminals, and then dialing up the current knobs to the desired limit. Then remove the short and connect your load. At loads less than the current set point, the voltage display shows your set point voltage (actual output voltage). The current display will vary between zero and the current set point, depending on actual load. Once the current limit is reached, voltage (and the displayed voltage, of course) falls to limit current to the preset level. Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not see the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you actually hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires going back through the limit setting for each new work session, unless you trust that the current limit knobs haven't been touched since the last session. The ideal supply would have both set point and output displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-) Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to the $hundreds required for lab grade supplies. Charlie Virus-free. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap bench supply? > >Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not >see the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you >actually hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires >going back through the limit setting for each new work session, >unless you trust that the current limit knobs haven't been touched >since the last session. The ideal supply would have both set point >and output displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay >for ideal. :-) > >Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to >the $hundreds required for lab grade supplies. Your observations are typical of every knob-adjusted power supply I've worked with for decades. The only devices with pre-set current/voltage values are digitally addressed. I have one of these guys in my stable: https://tinyurl.com/ydxv9edb It performs as advertised but in my opinion, not nearly as 'agile' as the 4-knob, analog supplies. But I do confess to being functionally predisposed. Been using those critters since '63. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:22 PM PST US From: speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Harness Questions Gentlemen (no offense to any women who might monitor this forum), Aircraft = RV-8 I have removed old EFIS, autopilot, transponder, and radio equipment and I am replacing it with newer stuff. The electrical system is 12 volt. I am installing: Advanced Flight 5800 GTN650 ARINC 429 Dynon Com 425 VHF radio Dynon autopilot PS Engineering PDA360EX remote audio panel Echo UAT I am building a wiring harness to allow the PDA360EX to talk to the GTN650 and Com 425 radio and AFS5800. I have called each of the manufacturers asking for information to correctly wire the harness. Of course, Garmin will not even talk to me. I called AFS and they say - you need to call PS Engineering. I called PS Engineering and they say - you need to call AFS. Same results with Dynon. Everyone points the finger at the other company and nobody wants to be bothered. So, I am here to ask if anyone has made a harness between the PDA360EX and a GTN650. If so, perhaps you can give me some guidance. Or perhaps you know of someone who will build the harness for a reasonable price. My local avionics shop wants $800. I understand it is not worth their time and they have to make money to stay open, but that price is too high. PS Engineering will not build a harness for me. AFS and others (haven't checked with Steinair) also want a rather steep price. But, if you know of someone who can make the harness for a reasonable price, I am willing to pay for it to be built. However, I am going to press on as if I am going to do the entire build myself. I have numerous questions about the connections, so I will ask about a few wires at a time then go and pin them and come back and ask the next question. Maybe, over time, I will be able to eat this elephant one bite at a time. 1. On the PDA360EX audio panel J1 wiring diagram, it lists connections from Com 1 (GTN650 in my case) as being Com 1 audio Hi Com 1 Lo Com 1 MIC Audio Hi Com 1 MIC Key On the GTN650, the P1001 connector has the following Audio Out HI - pin 4 Audio Out Lo - pin 23 And on the P1003 (Com) connector it has Com MIC 1 Audio IN HI - pin 5 500 ohm Com Audio HI - pin 7 Com MIC 1 Key - pin 11 500 ohm Com Audio LO - pin 18 MIC Audio IN LO - pin 20 I am familiar with the requirement to use shielded 2 and 3 wire cables and the requirement to tie the shield grounds together at the audio panel end and ONLY at that end. But, can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 Audio Hi connects to GTN650 Audio Out HI? Can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 LO connects to GTN650 Audio Out LO? Can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 MIC Audio Hi connects to GTN650 Com MIC 1 Audio IN HI? Can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 MIC Key connects to GTN650 Com MIC 1 Key? What are the 500 ohm Com Audio HI and LO used for, if anything? In advance, thanks for your help. I will digest these answers, do the wiring, and come back with more questions. Thanks, Stan Sutterfield Daytona Beach ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:51 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap bench supply? For those of us who do not care about limiting the current, is there a cheaper way of getting 20A between 5 and 30V? On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 20:49 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com wrote: > > Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not see > the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you actually > hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires going back > through the limit setting for each new work session, unless you trust that > the current limit knobs haven't been touched since the last session. The > ideal supply would have both set point and output displays, but for my > limited needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-) > > Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to the > $hundreds required for lab grade supplies. > > > Your observations are typical of every knob-adjusted power > supply I've worked with for decades. The only devices > with pre-set current/voltage values are digitally > addressed. I have one of these guys in my stable: > > https://tinyurl.com/ydxv9edb > > It performs as advertised but in my opinion, > not nearly as 'agile' as the 4-knob, analog > supplies. But I do confess to being functionally > predisposed. Been using those critters since > '63. > > > Bob . . . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.