Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:40 AM - DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr (William Daniell)
2. 07:14 AM - Re: DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr (Charlie England)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Kelly McMullen)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr (William Daniell)
5. 09:36 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Alec Myers)
6. 09:38 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Alec Myers)
7. 09:58 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Sebastien)
8. 10:07 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Alec Myers)
9. 10:31 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Alec Myers)
10. 07:21 PM - Re: Relay sticking (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr |
I have this "DPSK Unmlock" on my Dynon. The last time it appeared they
changed the unit so this is the second unit to suffer the same thing.
I am interested to know what it means and if anything in my system might be
provoking it.
My aircraft is a Europa with the Rotax Z16 (which you all helped me with
and which is working very well) and I followed manufacturer's instructions
with separating ADSB and Transponder antenna.
I used ADVANCED AIRCRAFT ELECTRONICS HIGH GAIN TRANSPONDER ANTENNA (L2)
from ACS for both transponder and ADSB.
Everything worked normally (they see me on radar and I can see other
traffic). When I get the message, I cycle the transponder and the
message goes away.
So is this something in my system or is it a manufacturing issue?
Thanks and Happy Holidays to all
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr |
This?
http://dynonavionics=2Ecom/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB=2Epl?num=1508284062
=81=A3Charlie=8B
On Dec 25, 2018, 8:44 AM, at 8:44 AM, William Da
niell <wdaniell=2Elongport@gmail=2Ecom> wrote:
>I have this "DPSK Unmlock"
on my Dynon=2E The last time it appeared they
>changed the unit so this is
the second unit to suffer the same thing=2E
>
>I am interested to know wha
t it means and if anything in my system
>might be
>provoking it=2E
>
>My ai
rcraft is a Europa with the Rotax Z16 (which you all helped me
>with
>and w
hich is working very well) and I followed manufacturer's
>instructions
>wit
h separating ADSB and Transponder antenna=2E
>
>I used ADVANCED AIRCRAFT EL
ECTRONICS HIGH GAIN TRANSPONDER ANTENNA (L2)
>from ACS for both transponder
and ADSB=2E
>
>Everything worked normally (they see me on radar and I can
see other
>traffic)=2E When I get the message, I cycle the transponder a
nd the
>message goes away=2E
>
>So is this something in my system or is it
a manufacturing issue?
>
>Thanks and Happy Holidays to all
>
>Will
>
>
>
>William Daniell
>LONGPORT
>+57 310 295 0744
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very
different than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared
between those brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar
configuration". Lycoming starters are on the front of the engine,
Continentals on the rear of the engine, just for example. Some may have
a relay (solenoid) mounted on the starter, some do not. You may be right
about replacing relay, given the generally low cost.
Yes, having a starter energized lamp is a good suggestion regardless.
On 12/24/2018 9:45 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> I say change the relay.
>
> That was an O235 engine, similar starter configuration to yours.
>
> Do you have a starter energized lamp?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr |
Thats the one!
But i was wondering if anyone knows why this happens....
Dynon just asked me to send the unit back last time this happened...this is
the second unit with the same issue which seems a little wierd. Maybe it
was a bad batch.
Also without a transponder these days you're grounded. Certainly in
Colombia you cant fly wiithout a working transponder.
Will
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 10:18 Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:
> This?
> http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1508284062
>
> Charlie
> On Dec 25, 2018, at 8:44 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have this "DPSK Unmlock" on my Dynon. The last time it appeared they
>> changed the unit so this is the second unit to suffer the same thing.
>>
>> I am interested to know what it means and if anything in my system might
>> be provoking it.
>>
>> My aircraft is a Europa with the Rotax Z16 (which you all helped me with
>> and which is working very well) and I followed manufacturer's
>> instructions with separating ADSB and Transponder antenna.
>>
>> I used ADVANCED AIRCRAFT ELECTRONICS HIGH GAIN TRANSPONDER ANTENNA (L2)
>> from ACS for both transponder and ADSB.
>>
>> Everything worked normally (they see me on radar and I can see other
>> traffic). When I get the message, I cycle the transponder and the
>> message goes away.
>>
>> So is this something in my system or is it a manufacturing issue?
>>
>> Thanks and Happy Holidays to all
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>> +57 310 295 0744
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very different
than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared between those
brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar configuration.
For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I was writing
about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 then theyre not
similar.
However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid problem was
a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged within a few seconds
of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapter is impossible to reach
without removing the engine from the aircraft. Lycoming - or Continental - I
would take absolutely no chances with running either engine with the slightest
suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Sorry - I should be less ambiguous. Were talking about sticky starter *contactors*
- regardless of whether the starter has a solenoid or some other engagement
mechanism. A new contactor is about $100 for a PMA one. Princess Auto (I know
Sebastien is in Canada) used to do an intermittent duty 12v contactor of identical
dimensions for CDN$16.
On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very different
than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared between those
brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar configuration.
For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I was writing
about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 then theyre not
similar.
However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid problem was
a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged within a few seconds
of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapter is impossible to reach
without removing the engine from the aircraft. Lycoming - or Continental - I
would take absolutely no chances with running either engine with the slightest
suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Sorry, I didn't know Lycoming made an O-200, this one is a Continental. In
any case we think the problem is in the relay or switch, not the starter
itself.
We are planning on replacing the relay with one of these:
https://aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/starterrelay.php
At $20 it seems a good idea.
What I'm wondering about is how to best cut open the old one in order to
see how the failure may have occurred?
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 09:43 Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com wrote:
>
> Sorry - I should be less ambiguous. We=99re talking about sticky st
arter
> *contactors* - regardless of whether the starter has a solenoid or some
> other engagement mechanism. A new contactor is about $100 for a PMA one.
> Princess Auto (I know Sebastien is in Canada) used to do an intermittent
> duty 12v contactor of identical dimensions for CDN$16.
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> kellym@aviating.com>
>
> > Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is ver
y
> different than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared
> between those brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar
> configuration=9D.
>
> For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I
> was writing about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 the
n
> they=99re not similar.
>
> However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid
> problem was a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged
> within a few seconds of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapte
r
> is impossible to reach without removing the engine from the aircraft.
> Lycoming - or Continental - I would take absolutely no chances with runni
ng
> either engine with the slightest suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
>Sorry, I didn't know Lycoming made an O-200,
After checking, I guess they dont! Sorry for the confusion.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very different
than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared between those
brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar configuration.
For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I was writing
about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 then theyre not
similar.
However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid problem was
a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged within a few seconds
of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapter is impossible to reach
without removing the engine from the aircraft. Lycoming - or Continental - I
would take absolutely no chances with running either engine with the slightest
suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Sabastien:
There are three test you should do:
1 - Test the Relay
2 - Test the Start Switch
3 - Test the wiring for the Start Switch
Test the Relay - Test 1:
a> Remove the wires connected to the relay.
b> Using an Ohm Meter read across the Contacts
Without power applied to the relay you should read an open.
c> Using an Ohm Meter read across the Coil
You should read some value of resistance.
The issue is: IS there one contact or two?
If one, then the case is your other contact.
AND one contact COULD BE off the INPUT side which would be your B+
d> Using an Ohm Meter read across ONE Coil to Ground (CASE) and then
e> Using an Ohm Meter read across ONE (the other ) Coil to Ground (CASE)
Start Switch Test 2:
a> Remove the wires to the Start Switch.
b> Using an Ohm Meter read across the Contacts
With the switch NOT pressed it should read open
c> Press the Switch.
With the switch pressed it should read closed (zero ohms).
If anything other than above replace the switch.
Test the wiring for the Start Switch Test 3:
a> Since you have the wires already disconnected from the Switch and the
Relay you can do two checks
a1> Across the wires that came off the Start Switch.
They should read open.
a2> From ONE end of a wire from the switch to the other end of the wire
where it connects to the Start Relay.
You should read a close (zero ohms) for each wire.
IF you get anything other than the above - Replace the wires.
OK - Are you ready to POWER TEST the Starter Relay?
IF SO - DISCONNECT IT FROM THE STARTER MOTOR.
Well, it already should have been done if you followed instructions in Test
1.
Using a set of jumper leads.
Run a lead from the Battery + to the INPUT side of the Start Relay.
Run a second lead from the Battery - (Ground) to the Coil terminal of the
relay.
It should snap CLOSED.
Well, it may not IF you have a relay that has two (2) Coil Terminals. Some
relays use an independent + & - connections.
IF you have a single coil terminal your INPUT Battery B+ will be readable
on the OUTPUT relay terminal. Now, here is a TRICK -
Step 1: Read the Voltage across the CLOSED relay terminals. It should
read ZERO!
If you have a voltage that means there is a RESISTANCE internally in the
relay contacts.
Throw the relay away!
Step 2: While CLOSED, take a resistance reading Across the Input & Output.
You should read ZERO Ohms. Why do I call this a TRICK? Because you are
reading a Resistance while there is a voltage on the same terminals.
YEAH! It is possible to read resistance. And, if you do... Throw the
relay away. You want ZERO resistance.
Last test: Does the relay have Diode across the Coil?
1 - It should be installed with the + side of the Diode on the Negative -
side of the Coil.
2 - Check the Diode for Forward to Reverse Bias Resistance. There should
be a Minimum of 10:1 Reverse to Forward.
OR... Just throw it away and replace it with a New Diode.
OR... Of course you could just replace the relay and diode without testing
it. That way you know the circuit has a good relay - But, you have no
proof that the old relay is bad. What about the wires and the Start Switch?
Side Note: I always, well, almost always, use the above procedure ONLY
because sometimes the R&R of the relay is way more time consuming and/or
requires two people. AND, I hate being a Pull & Replace Mechanic. You
would never know if it was the relay or just a bad ground.
Barry
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 8:19 PM Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
> We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After
> running the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted over
> an hour, one of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi back but with
> the already depleted battery and a less than perfect start procedure they
> gave up after a couple weak start attempts. I walked over to the aircraft
> to brief them on a prop start and when I asked for the master on the
> starter ran. Shut the master off, cycled the start button rapidly a dozen
> times, master on again and the starter ran again. I could hear the starter
> relay clicking loudly each time power was applied so it does not seem like
> there was a physical failure of the relay but more some electrical short
> activating the relay each time power was applied.
>
> The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection.
> Tightening it took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in their
> words "it's fixed but it did it again once".
>
> We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch is
> suspect but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the aeroelectric
> list think there would be value in cutting open the relay and examining it?
> Any suggestions on how best to do so?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sebastien
>
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