Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Arctic super-flex wire (donjohnston)
2. 04:39 AM - Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? (blues750)
3. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:17 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: Arctic super-flex wire (Ken Ryan)
6. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Arctic super-flex wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:13 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Carlos Trigo)
8. 10:15 AM - Re: Relay sticking (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls (user9253)
10. 11:07 AM - Re: Relay sticking (user9253)
11. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Relay sticking (FLYaDIVE)
12. 12:43 PM - Stratux alternative ADS-B antennas (farmrjohn)
13. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls (DANIEL PELLETIER)
14. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: Transponder Antenna (Jeff Page)
16. 03:16 PM - AeroElectric-List mission and decorum (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Transponder Antenna (Kelly McMullen)
18. 04:36 PM - Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? (blues750)
19. 04:38 PM - Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? (blues750)
20. 04:43 PM - Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls (user9253)
21. 07:35 PM - Open Barrel Crimp Tools (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Arctic super-flex wire |
Any update on this product?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486649#486649
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| Subject: | Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? |
Here are a few pics of the connector in case anything can be determined by the
pic. Will post pics of crimps when I remove wires and assess. Thanks for the
input all. Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486650#486650
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/regulator_rectifier_connector_798.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? |
At 06:38 AM 1/2/2019, you wrote:
>
>Here are a few pics of the connector in case anything can be
>determined by the pic. Will post pics of crimps when I remove wires
>and assess. Thanks for the input all. Dave
It is interesting that the nylon housing
appears uniformly discolored suggesting
uniform distribution of 'stress' through
the connector. Loss of conductive integrity
is usually concentrated in one of the
several wires where a failure cascade
began.
This suggests a distributed condition
probably based in inadequate crimps
on all the wires. Presence or lack
of DE grease for moisture exclusion
was probably not a factor in this
failure.
What tool was used to install the
terminals?
DE grease is a good idea for joints
at particular risk for corrosion due
to moisture ingress. We used to pack
a coax connector with DC4 before mating
followed by lotsa wrap with Scotch 33 tape
on towers. Having a connector go south
175 feet up on a tower is a real pain
in the arse, legs, arms, etc, etc.
But generally speaking, very few situations
in aircraft benefit by the addition of
DE grease. If there is a situation where
an electrical joining is subject to
assault from moisture, there will be
features other than electrical joints
also under assault. Keeping the moisture
off is generally better than trying to
keep it out. Ref: the failed attempt
at Cessna to 'seal' contactors that
were receiving splash from rainwater.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
>
>or cap facing down with a #40 drain
>hole added right in the center. Now
>trapped liquid had a place to get
>out.
>
>Barry - You must be associated with the Three Stooges... Remember
>when they were sitting in a row boat and it sprung
>a leak... If you have a hole at one end of the boat leaking water
>in, all you have to do is drill another hole at
>the other end to let the water out! Isn't that correct? That is
>EXACTLY what you are suggesting. Also, you did
>not address the issue of having the rolled edge facing Up where
>water and ice can accumulate.
>
>Bob, if you continue to attack me with your warped logic I will be
>forced to sink your rubber ducky. As much of
>your logic has already has discrepancy holes. BUT! If I am
>incorrect on something and after you thoughtfully
>review my point AND if you have a true improvement to my suggestion
>please post it. Other wise you look like
>you are criticizing just to attack.
>
>Barry
Barry, I have not 'attacked' you, nor have I
suggested any short-falls in your intelligence
or integrity laced with derisive or pejorative
prose.
I have attempted to offer explanations
of cause/effect/remedy for a constellation
of failures. Analysis of those failures
was a prime-directive in my 45+ years at
Cessna (3x), Beech (2x), Lear, Boeing
and Electro-Mech (3x) where my work not
only had to produce beneficial outcomes
but was subject to review by my peers.
Recall that this thread began
with discussions about welding
in a starter contactor (high pressure, small
area contacts) due to weak battery
condition . . . but morphed into
some discussion about failures in
battery contactors (low pressure,
large area contacts) with an entirely
different failure mode.
You first stated that the rolled closure
on the metal housing of a contactor
was 'hermetic' then you suggest
there is some value in orienting that
joint to ward off effects of accumlated
of 'water and ice'?
Moisture gets into non-hermetic devices
with a combination water vapor/liquid
at the leak site AND a pressure differential
due to effects atmosphere (weak) or temperature
(strong). Battery contactors heat up
significantly while energized. When
de-energized, a substantial pressure
differential occurs as the device
cools. If there is moisture at
the location of any leak, it is
sucked inside.
Drilling the hole in the low spot on
a contactor cap facing down has two
benefits. It provides a drain for
liquid condensate AND a pressure
relief that stops a cooling contactor
from 'sucking' moisture across the
non-hermetic seal at the housing-to-
cap interface.
I'm sorry if you feel 'attacked'.
That's not my mission here. This is all
about the simple-ideas in physics that
drive the utility of our favorite machines.
Ideas that were a foundation for a
successful career and, I believe, worthy
of sharing in the OBAM aviation community.
If I mis-understand something, I'm intently
interested in knowing it . . . as a teacher
I have a duty to NOT propagate bad data.
So I invite you to help sift the sands of simple-
ideas and forego disparaging remarks.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Arctic super-flex wire |
I sent some to Bob N. and he responded basically that it looked pretty
good. You'll have to search the forum for his exact words.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:27 AM donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
> don@velocity-xl.com>
>
> Any update on this product?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486649#486649
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Arctic super-flex wire |
At 09:39 AM 1/2/2019, you wrote:
>I sent some to Bob N. and he responded basically that it looked
>pretty good. You'll have to search the forum for his exact words.
>
>On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:27 AM donjohnston
><<mailto:don@velocity-xl.com>don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
><<mailto:don@velocity-xl.com>don@velocity-xl.com>
>
>Any update on this product?
>
Without access to the engineering specifications
data, I'm unable to confirm performance beyond
the advertised features. I have no reason to
believe it's not suited to our tasks although
flexibility at low temperatures is not a
problem for us. High flexibility at any
temperature, like the welding cable, is a most
convenient feature when dealing with fat
wires.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Bob
It is more than obvious that you (and everyone else) should not waste our ti
me with this gentleman (Barry) opinions.
Just delete them.
Nothing personal, just by having read some of them.
Have an excellent 2019!
Carlos
No dia 02/01/2019, =C3-s 14:16, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aero
electric.com> escreveu:
>>
>> or cap facing down with a #40 drain
>> hole added right in the center. Now
>> trapped liquid had a place to get
>> out.
>>
>> Barry - You must be associated with the Three Stooges... Remember when t
hey were sitting in a row boat and it sprung
>> a leak... If you have a hole at one end of the boat leaking water in, al
l you have to do is drill another hole at
>> the other end to let the water out! Isn't that correct? That is EXACTLY w
hat you are suggesting. Also, you did
>> not address the issue of having the rolled edge facing Up where water and
ice can accumulate.
>>
>> Bob, if you continue to attack me with your warped logic I will be forced
to sink your rubber ducky. As much of
>> your logic has already has discrepancy holes. BUT! If I am incorrect on s
omething and after you thoughtfully
>> review my point AND if you have a true improvement to my suggestion pleas
e post it. Other wise you look like
>> you are criticizing just to attack.
>>
>> Barry
>
>
> Barry, I have not 'attacked' you, nor have I
> suggested any short-falls in your intelligence
> or integrity laced with derisive or pejorative
> prose.
>
> I have attempted to offer explanations
> of cause/effect/remedy for a constellation
> of failures. Analysis of those failures
> was a prime-directive in my 45+ years at
> Cessna (3x), Beech (2x), Lear, Boeing
> and Electro-Mech (3x) where my work not
> only had to produce beneficial outcomes
> but was subject to review by my peers.
>
> Recall that this thread began
> with discussions about welding
> in a starter contactor (high pressure, small
> area contacts) due to weak battery
> condition . . . but morphed into
> some discussion about failures in
> battery contactors (low pressure,
> large area contacts) with an entirely
> different failure mode.
>
> You first stated that the rolled closure
> on the metal housing of a contactor
> was 'hermetic' then you suggest
> there is some value in orienting that
> joint to ward off effects of accumlated
> of 'water and ice'?
>
> Moisture gets into non-hermetic devices
> with a combination water vapor/liquid
> at the leak site AND a pressure differential
> due to effects atmosphere (weak) or temperature
> (strong). Battery contactors heat up
> significantly while energized. When
> de-energized, a substantial pressure
> differential occurs as the device
> cools. If there is moisture at
> the location of any leak, it is
> sucked inside.
>
> Drilling the hole in the low spot on
> a contactor cap facing down has two
> benefits. It provides a drain for
> liquid condensate AND a pressure
> relief that stops a cooling contactor
> from 'sucking' moisture across the
> non-hermetic seal at the housing-to-
> cap interface.
>
> I'm sorry if you feel 'attacked'.
> That's not my mission here. This is all
> about the simple-ideas in physics that
> drive the utility of our favorite machines.
> Ideas that were a foundation for a
> successful career and, I believe, worthy
> of sharing in the OBAM aviation community.
> If I mis-understand something, I'm intently
> interested in knowing it . . . as a teacher
> I have a duty to NOT propagate bad data.
> So I invite you to help sift the sands of simple-
> ideas and forego disparaging remarks.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
At 11:11 AM 1/2/2019, you wrote:
>Bob
>
>It is more than obvious that you (and everyone else) should not
>waste our time with this gentleman (Barry) opinions.
>Just delete them.
>
>Nothing personal, just by having read some of them.
>
>Have an excellent 2019!
>Carlos
At last count, there were about 1200 subscribers
to the list . . . obviously, ACTIVE participants
number much less but I think it's important to make
sure that poor or unclear data does not go
unchallenged. Of course, any who wish
to bypass the thread are encouraged to do so.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls |
Use heat conductive paste between the metal base of the Ducatti regulator and the
airframe. Cool the fins with forced air.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486659#486659
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Quote from Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
"Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers,"
If someone posts something that you disagree with, it is best not to quote
them or mention their name. Just state the facts about the electrical subject.
Follow Bob's example. He has contradicted my postings in the past without
offending me. (Although I do not like to admit being wrong. LOL)
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486660#486660
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Exactly Joe!
Check your emails, I did not post my response to the gaggle. It was sent
directly to Bob. After his snide comments.
So, who is attacking whom?
Barry
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Quote from Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
> "Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
> polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
> other listers,"
> If someone posts something that you disagree with, it is best not to
> quote
> them or mention their name. Just state the facts about the electrical
> subject.
> Follow Bob's example. He has contradicted my postings in the past without
> offending me. (Although I do not like to admit being wrong. LOL)
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486660#486660
>
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the
makings of a Crew Chief.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Stratux alternative ADS-B antennas |
Hi, new to the list. I'm interested in a Stratux for ADS-B in but would prefer
a less visible antenna array for the ADS-B. Are there alternatives? I'm planning
on powering the unit via aircraft power/USB cable.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486662#486662
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls |
Thanks Joe. You have a suggestion for the heat conductive paste?
Envoy de mon iPhone
> Le 2 janv. 2019 13:20, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> a crit :
>
>
> Use heat conductive paste between the metal base of the Ducatti regulator and
the airframe. Cool the fins with forced air.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486659#486659
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls |
At 04:08 PM 1/2/2019, you wrote:
><pelletie1959@me.com>
>
>Thanks Joe. You have a suggestion for the heat conductive paste?
As I recall, the legacy 912 Ducatti regulators
had epoxy-fill bases . . . VERY low thermal
conductivity. Not much opportunity to suck
more heat out of that side. However, a 12v
computer fan blowing on the top fins would
make a HUGE difference.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna |
Yesterday, I pulled up the carpet and open the inspection panel to get
at the antenna connector. No connection there between the aluminium
airframe and the connector shield.
I unscrewed the antenna and am surprised how well the old Narco AT50
transponder worked. It is doubtful there ever was a ground connection.
The antenna was mounted with a cork gasket and all the original
paint was still on the antenna and the plane.
The antenna turned out to be a Dorne & Margolin DMNI70-2. The nice
label was conveniently located hidden inside against the airplane.
I cleaned up the base of the antenna with Scotchbrite and removed the
paint around the screw holes on the airplane. Alumiprep and Alodine
treated the bare aluminium.
For good measure I will also fabricate a new RG-400 cable.
Thanks for everyone's comments and advice.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 16
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| Subject: | AeroElectric-List mission and decorum |
At 01:33 PM 1/2/2019, you wrote:
>Exactly Joe!
>
>Check your emails, I did not post my response to
>the gaggle.=C2 It was sent directly to Bob.=C2 After his snide comments.
>So, who is attacking whom?
Barry,
You are not being attacked. You have
offered many 'knowledge nuggets' in
both practice and physics that were simply
wrong. I and others have simply argued to
correct such offers. You have accused
me of being on drugs, indulging in
'three stooges logic' and then suggested
you might have to sink my 'rubber duck'
although the significance of that statement
eludes me.
No one is allowed to insult me. It's
an easy choice one makes. Either an assertion
is true and demands further reflection
or it's false and deserves no further
notice. Taking umbrage is a waste of time
and emotional capital.
This is not a public forum . . . it's a
classroom where answers for failure are
sought and the outcomes of repeatable
experiments are shared. Contributors
to those goals are welcome.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna |
The cork gasket should not have mattered. The ground connection should
be across the screws and nuts or nut plates. At least that is how most
antennas are designed. Those old Narco transponders were pretty tolerant
of marginal coax connections. You do want the base of the antenna to
aircraft skin joint to be sealed. Often done with narrow bead of clear
or white RTV after the antenna is mounted.
On 1/2/2019 2:42 PM, Jeff Page wrote:
>
> Yesterday, I pulled up the carpet and open the inspection panel to get
> at the antenna connector. No connection there between the aluminium
> airframe and the connector shield.
>
> I unscrewed the antenna and am surprised how well the old Narco AT50
> transponder worked. It is doubtful there ever was a ground connection.
> The antenna was mounted with a cork gasket and all the original paint
> was still on the antenna and the plane.
>
> The antenna turned out to be a Dorne & Margolin DMNI70-2. The nice
> label was conveniently located hidden inside against the airplane.
>
> I cleaned up the base of the antenna with Scotchbrite and removed the
> paint around the screw holes on the airplane. Alumiprep and Alodine
> treated the bare aluminium.
>
> For good measure I will also fabricate a new RG-400 cable.
>
> Thanks for everyone's comments and advice.
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? |
OK, had a chance to remove the wires from the connector shell. I would like to
think all my crimps looked like the "good looking crimp and wire" I cannot imagine
I would have proceeded without having them otherwise. But... the other
wires look pretty p*ss poor! The bare wire had hardened insulation which I peeled
off to inspect wire condition. Seems like a lot of corrosion for such a
"young" connection! In reading Bob's related reply, I can easily be lead to
believe that those (my) crimps are in the "neophyte" category for these particular
terminals. I cannot recall the crimp tool name I used, but it is oe I purchased
from SteinAir expressedly for doing open barrel crimps. Thoughts, insights,
and opinions??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486668#486668
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/crimps_146.jpg
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: When / where to use dielectric grease? |
Thanks Bob, I need to look at the crimping tool box to see what I used to do the
crimps. As always, appreciated the insight!! Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486669#486669
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| Subject: | Re: Engine switch for a rotax 912 uls |
Yes, the Ducatti Regulator bottom is mostly a non-heat conductive material.
But there is an aluminum perimeter about 5 mm wide that can be coated with
heat conductive paste. Some people use Zinc oxide that they buy at drug
stores. Others use heat conductive paste from computer stores or from home
improvement stores. Rotax spark plugs are supposed to be installed with heat
conductive paste. That same product can be used under the regulator.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486670#486670
Message 21
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| Subject: | Open Barrel Crimp Tools |
At 06:37 PM 1/2/2019, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob, I need to look at the crimping tool box to see what I
>used to do the crimps. As always, appreciated the insight!! Dave
>
>
Just for grins, check out these
documents from my website . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_Waldom/qual_crimp.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_Waldom/TBO%20Quality%20Crimp%20Handbook.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_Waldom/crimping%20my%20style.pdf
There are discussions on crimp
quality and in particular, pull tests
to see if your tool/terminal/wire
combination is producing the
desired wire grip.
Bob . . .
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