---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/03/19: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:16 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (zwakie) 2. 04:48 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List mission and decorum (Neal E. George) 3. 07:09 AM - Re: A brown-out alternative? (user9253) 4. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: A brown-out alternative? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:04 AM - Re: Alternator/shunt question (supik) 6. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Alternator/shunt question (Art Zemon) 7. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: Alternator/shunt question (Art Zemon) 8. 12:35 PM - Re: Alternator/shunt question (supik) 9. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Alternator/shunt question (Art Zemon) 10. 01:53 PM - Re: Transponder Antenna (Tundra10) 11. 01:57 PM - Re: Re: Alternator/shunt question (Ernest Christley) 12. 08:53 PM - GPS Antennae () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:05 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A brown-out alternative? From: "zwakie" As promised: I have now tested my little circuit it in-situ on the plane, and I can confirm that I no longer have brownouts and cannot observe any ill effects. I do not have the tools to do detailed measurements on the timing aspects, current back-flow and such, so I cannot report on that part. I do feel pretty confident that this design will meet my objectives though, time will tell... -------- Marcel Zwakenberg Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486681#486681 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:56 AM PST US From: "Neal E. George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: AeroElectric-List mission and decorum Well said, Bob. Much more eloquent that warranted... Neal George ========= From: On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Barry, You are not being attacked. You have offered many 'knowledge nuggets' in both practice and physics that were simply wrong. I and others have simply argued to correct such offers. You have accused me of being on drugs, indulging in 'three stooges logic' and then suggested you might have to sink my 'rubber duck' although the significance of that statement eludes me. No one is allowed to insult me. It's an easy choice one makes. Either an assertion is true and demands further reflection or it's false and deserves no further notice. Taking umbrage is a waste of time and emotional capital. This is not a public forum . . . it's a classroom where answers for failure are sought and the outcomes of repeatable experiments are shared. Contributors to those goals are welcome. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:10 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A brown-out alternative? From: "user9253" Good work Marcel. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486685#486685 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: A brown-out alternative? At 05:15 AM 1/3/2019, you wrote: > >As promised: I have now tested my little circuit it in-situ on the >plane, and I can confirm that I no longer have brownouts and cannot >observe any ill effects. > >I do not have the tools to do detailed measurements on the timing >aspects, current back-flow and such, so I cannot report on that >part. I do feel pretty confident that this design will meet my >objectives though, time will tell... > >-------- >Marcel Zwakenberg >Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR > Thank you for advancing this idea and sharing your findings! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:47 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question From: "supik" Bob, I would like to go with a similar setup: 60A B&C Main Alt + 30A B&C Aux Alt. Single battery. Both alternators will be ON during normal ops. Shall the Main Alt fail, I plan to shed loads and if possible continue home VFR Day with stopovers if needed. For this setup I need the Aux Alternator to be able to charge at min 14.1V to recharge the battery -correct? 1. What would be the best regulator setup for both alternators? Two main linear regulators or one main and one standby? 2. How do I recognize the Aux Alt has failed if the loads did not exceed 60A or the voltage didn't drop to 14.1V? Can this be checked only by switching of the Main Alt? thanks! Happy New Year! Igor -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486688#486688 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:51 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question Igor, That is exactly the system that I built for my BD-4C. I used B&C's voltage regulators. The backup regulator is set at a lower voltage than the primary so the field on the backup alternator doesn't get energized unless the primary fails (which makes the voltage drop). After engine start, I turn on the switches for both alternators. Your bus voltage is your primary diagnostic: - Voltage drops below the set point for the primary voltage regulator means that the primary alternator is not producing power - Voltage drops below the set point for the backup voltage regulator means that neither alternator is producing power This does not identify the cause, only the symptom. It could be a tripped field circuit breaker. It could be a failed component. Maybe you simply forgot to turn on the alternator switch. In addition to the voltage display on my EFIS, I added a current sensor to the output of each of the two alternators and I display both of those values. No particular reason; I just think it's cool to see the data. If you want to see my wiring diagram, which is specific for the B&C alternators and voltage regulators, take a look at engine.pdf . The whole set of diagrams (maybe useful to you?) is in N2468Z Wiring Diagrams *g*on Google Drive. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:39 PM supik wrote: > > Bob, > > I would like to go with a similar setup: 60A B&C Main Alt + 30A B&C Aux > Alt. Single battery. Both alternators will be ON during normal ops. Shall > the Main Alt fail, I plan to shed loads and if possible continue home VFR > Day with stopovers if needed. > > For this setup I need the Aux Alternator to be able to charge at min 14.1V > to recharge the battery -correct? > > 1. What would be the best regulator setup for both alternators? Two main > linear regulators or one main and one standby? > > 2. How do I recognize the Aux Alt has failed if the loads did not exceed > 60A or the voltage didn't drop to 14.1V? Can this be checked only by > switching of the Main Alt? -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."* ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:20 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question Igor, That is exactly the system that I built for my BD-4C. I used B&C's voltage regulators. The backup regulator is set at a lower voltage than the primary so the field on the backup alternator doesn't get energized unless the primary fails (which makes the voltage drop). After engine start, I turn on the switches for both alternators. Your bus voltage is your primary diagnostic: - Voltage drops below the set point for the primary voltage regulator means that the primary alternator is not producing power - Voltage drops below the set point for the backup voltage regulator means that neither alternator is producing power This does not identify the cause, only the symptom. It could be a tripped field circuit breaker. It could be a failed component. Maybe you simply forgot to turn on the alternator switch. In addition to the voltage display on my EFIS, I added a current sensor to the output of each of the two alternators and I display both of those values. No particular reason; I just think it's cool to see the data. If you want to see my wiring diagram, which is specific for the B&C alternators and voltage regulators, take a look at engine.pdf . The whole set of diagrams (maybe useful to you?) is in N2468Z Wiring Diagrams *g*on Google Drive. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:39 PM supik wrote: > > Bob, > > I would like to go with a similar setup: 60A B&C Main Alt + 30A B&C Aux > Alt. Single battery. Both alternators will be ON during normal ops. Shall > the Main Alt fail, I plan to shed loads and if possible continue home VFR > Day with stopovers if needed. > > For this setup I need the Aux Alternator to be able to charge at min 14.1V > to recharge the battery -correct? > > 1. What would be the best regulator setup for both alternators? Two main > linear regulators or one main and one standby? > > 2. How do I recognize the Aux Alt has failed if the loads did not exceed > 60A or the voltage didn't drop to 14.1V? Can this be checked only by > switching of the Main Alt? -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."* ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:15 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question From: "supik" Thanks a lot Art! I'll check your diagrams.. -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486693#486693 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:09 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question Jim, You're welcome. I drew those diagrams in LibreOffice and the source files are available, too, if you want them. Finally, please be aware that there are differences between those diagrams and the airplane. I have the "field mods" on paper but have not updated the diagrams, yet. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:10 PM wrote: > Thanks for publishing your entire set of schematics. Very nice job. Your > system is very similar to what I intend to build, and it's good to have an > "example" for the documentation I want to produce for mine. > > Jim Parker > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question > From: Art Zemon > Date: Thu, January 03, 2019 1:02 pm > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Igor, > > That is exactly the system that I built for my BD-4C. I used B&C's voltage > regulators. The backup regulator is set at a lower voltage than the primary > so the field on the backup alternator doesn't get energized unless the > primary fails (which makes the voltage drop). > > After engine start, I turn on the switches for both alternators. > > Your bus voltage is your primary diagnostic: > > - Voltage drops below the set point for the primary voltage regulator > means that the primary alternator is not producing power > - Voltage drops below the set point for the backup voltage regulator > means that neither alternator is producing power > > This does not identify the cause, only the symptom. It could be a tripped > field circuit breaker. It could be a failed component. Maybe you simply > forgot to turn on the alternator switch. > > In addition to the voltage display on my EFIS, I added a current sensor to > the output of each of the two alternators and I display both of those > values. No particular reason; I just think it's cool to see the data. > > If you want to see my wiring diagram, which is specific for the B&C > alternators and voltage regulators, take a look at engine.pdf > . > The whole set of diagrams (maybe useful to you?) is in N2468Z Wiring > Diagrams > > *g*on Google Drive. > > Cheers, > -- Art Z. > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:39 PM supik wrote: > >> >> Bob, >> >> I would like to go with a similar setup: 60A B&C Main Alt + 30A B&C Aux >> Alt. Single battery. Both alternators will be ON during normal ops. Shall >> the Main Alt fail, I plan to shed loads and if possible continue home VFR >> Day with stopovers if needed. >> >> For this setup I need the Aux Alternator to be able to charge at min >> 14.1V to recharge the battery -correct? >> >> 1. What would be the best regulator setup for both alternators? Two main >> linear regulators or one main and one standby? >> >> 2. How do I recognize the Aux Alt has failed if the loads did not exceed >> 60A or the voltage didn't drop to 14.1V? Can this be checked only by >> switching of the Main Alt? > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."* > > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."* ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:08 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder Antenna From: "Tundra10" One thing I find odd about the blade transponder antenna, is that the entire body is a chunk of aluminum. There is a horizontal band with a plastic? covering. So it seems the radiating element is pretty shielded inside. It is a Dorne & Margolin DM NI 70-2 if anyone is familiar with it. Photo attached. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486694#486694 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/antenna_903.jpg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:05 PM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question How did you manage that with LibreOffice, Art?=C2- I've never been able to get anything other than the most rudimentary drawings out of it.=C2- I 'd appreciate you sharing your source files.=C2- I would definitely use i t to improve my POH. On Thursday, January 3, 2019, 4:18:00 PM EST, Art Zemon wrote: Jim, You're welcome. I drew those diagrams in LibreOffice and the source files a re available, too, if you want them. Finally, please be aware that there are differences between those diagrams and the airplane. I have the "field mods" on paper but have not updated the diagrams, yet. Cheers,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z. On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:10 PM wrote: Thanks for publishing your entire set of schematics.=C2- Very nice job. =C2- Your system is very similar to what I intend to build, and it's good to have an "example" for the documentation I want to produce for mine.=C2 -=C2- Jim Parker -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator/shunt question From: Art Zemon Igor, That is exactly the system that I built for my BD-4C. I used B&C's voltage regulators. The backup regulator is set at a lower voltage than the primary so the field on the backup alternator doesn't get energized unless the pri mary fails (which makes the voltage drop). After engine start, I turn on the switches for both alternators. Your bus voltage is your primary diagnostic: - Voltage drops below the set point for the primary voltage regulator me ans that the primary alternator is not producing power - Voltage drops below the set point for the backup voltage regulator mea ns that neither alternator is producing power This does not identify the cause, only the symptom. It could be a tripped f ield circuit breaker. It could be a failed component. Maybe you simply forg ot to turn on the alternator switch. In addition to the voltage display on my EFIS, I added a current sensor to the output of each of the two alternators and I display both of those value s. No particular reason; I just think it's cool to see the data. If you want to see my wiring diagram, which is specific for the B&C alterna tors and voltage regulators, take a look at engine.pdf. The whole set of di agrams (maybe useful to you?) is in N2468Z Wiring Diagrams=C2-gon Google Drive. Cheers,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z. On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:39 PM supik wrote: Bob, I would like to go with a similar setup: 60A B&C Main Alt + 30A B&C Aux Al t. Single battery. Both alternators will be ON during normal ops. Shall the Main Alt fail, I plan to shed loads and if possible continue home VFR Day with stopovers if needed. For this setup I need the Aux Alternator to be able to charge at min 14.1V to recharge the battery -correct? 1. What would be the best regulator setup for both alternators? Two main l inear regulators or one main and one standby? 2. How do I recognize the Aux Alt has failed if the loads did not exceed 6 0A or the voltage didn't drop to 14.1V? Can this be checked only by switchi ng of the Main Alt? -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:24 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antennae Do GPS antennae have an electronic front and rear?When physically attaching an antenna to an airplane there is a designed direction for strength and best aerodynamic airflow.But, if I mount a GPS antenna inside the airplane on a glare shield, does the orientation matter? 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