---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/14/19: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Art Zemon) 2. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Kelly McMullen) 3. 06:06 AM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 4. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Kelly McMullen) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Carlos Trigo) 6. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Carlos Trigo) 7. 07:56 AM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 8. 07:58 AM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 9. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Sebastien) 10. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Sebastien) 11. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Sebastien) 12. 10:26 AM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 13. 10:48 AM - Re: Internally Regulated Over Voltage Protection (BMC_Dave) 14. 03:33 PM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 15. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Sebastien) 16. 03:59 PM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 17. 04:10 PM - Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (supik) 18. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls (Sebastien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:37 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Sebatien, I agree with everything that you wrote. My apologies if anything that I wrote was confusing. I did not mean to imply that I would not turn on the pitot heat until I was in the conditions requiring it. I would turn it on well before entering those conditions, just as you suggested when you wrote about turning it on before takeoff. For me, flying airplanes which are not certified for flight into known icing conditions, I am simply not willing to fly in a situation that requires pitot heat for an extended period of time. I don't like to fly an approach and landing through such conditions. The chance of ice is small but... I will only launch into such conditions if I know that I can climb out the top VERY quickly. I misjudged the "climb out on top VERY quickly" once and scared myself. I NEVER want to do that again. You can read about it in a NASA ASRS Callback, my moment of anonymous fame. (Email me off-list if you want to know more) -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."* ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: Kelly McMullen I don't disagree with the sentiment for pitot heat. However, I will note that many TC aircraft didn't get heated pitot until well after 1960. I flew without pitot heat in and out of clouds quite a bit. I was fortunate to be in geographic area with low humidity and virtually all icing was slow to accumulate rime, which did not seem to block the old standard 1/8" copper tube pitot. Today, the non-certified heated pitots are certainly cheap enough that they should be employed as a defensive measure even if one intends to avoid all flight in cloud. On 1/14/2019 6:09 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > Sebatien, > > I agree with everything that you wrote. My apologies if anything that I > wrote was confusing. I did not mean to imply that I would not turn on > the pitot heat until I was in the conditions requiring it. I would turn > it on well before entering those conditions, just as you suggested when > you wrote about turning it on before takeoff. > > For me, flying airplanes which are not certified for flight into known > icing conditions, I am simply not willing to fly in a situation that > requires pitot heat for an extended period of time. I don't like to fly > an approach and landing through such conditions. The chance of ice is > small but... I will only launch into such conditions if I know that I > can climb out the top VERY quickly. > > I misjudged the "climb out on top VERY quickly" once and scared myself. > I NEVER want to do that again. You can read about it in a NASA ASRS > Callback, my moment of anonymous fame. (Email me off-list if you want to > know more) > > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:07 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now. The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON. Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay. Have you found any other hotspots? Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: Kelly McMullen OK, you may need to have an analysis for your regulators with everything at max draw, but for wire sizing, alternator sizing, etc. it makes zero sense. For instance, it is very unlikely, if not impossible to be transmitting on both com units at the same time. Many of the items the max draw is only during boot up cycle. You most certainly will not be flying at night with your dome light on. Your nav and strobe lights will be at minimum after start up, not at max. I'd suggest you follow US convention for load analysis to get appropriate alternator and wire sizing...looking at normal continuous operating current for each item, not its transient max draw. It will put your normal load at about 1/2 the numbers you are looking at. The rule of thumb 80% of capacity number, for instance is based on continuous operating load, not max potential current. Are you really going to fly much night time IFR? I did it when I was younger, but it would be extremely rare now that I don't "need" to get somewhere enough to do that. Obviously your regs are stricter than the US. On 1/14/2019 7:05 AM, supik wrote: > > I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now. > > The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. > > The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON. > > Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay. > > Have you found any other hotspots? > > Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:25 AM PST US From: Carlos Trigo Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Igor You didnt send the updated load analysis. Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone No dia 14/01/2019, s 14:05, supik escreveu: > > I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now. > > The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. > > The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON. > > Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay. > > Have you found any other hotspots? > > Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:04 AM PST US From: Carlos Trigo Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldnt find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where? Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone No dia 14/01/2019, s 14:05, supik escreveu: > > I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now. > > The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. > > The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON. > > Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay. > > Have you found any other hotspots? > > Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:06 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: > Igor > > You didnt send the updated load analysis. > > Carlos > > Enviado do meu iPhone > > No dia 14/01/2019, s 14:05, supik escreveu: > > > > > > > > I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now. > > > > The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. > > > > The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON. > > > > Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay. > > > > Have you found any other hotspots? > > > > Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? > > > > -------- > > Igor > > > > RV10 in progress > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carlos, Load A. attached here and in my original post: -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486965#486965 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/loadanalysis_om_ela_vpb01_987.pdf ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:17 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: > As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldnt find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where? > > Carlos > > Enviado do meu iPhone > Snip from my original post: Respective BUS voltages monitored by G3X Touch. -MAIN BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.8V triggers (MASTER CAUT) MAIN BUS LV -ESS BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.0V triggers (MASTER WARN) ESS BUS LV -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486966#486966 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:40 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Igor section 18 of the G3X installation manual has all the information for configuring your EIS. While the G3X does support display of 2 different voltage sources, it will combine them on one gauge. This means that your Master Caution alarm and Master Warning alarm thresholds will have to be appropriate to both voltages. I recommend you do not set any Master Warning, and set your Master Caution alarm to ~13.7 V. If either bus falls below this level, you get a warning and can plan accordingly while your battery is still fully charged. On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 6:11 AM supik wrote: > > I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the > MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I > hope, it's more clear now. > > The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. > > The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR > flight and will be ON. > > Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay > with a continuos duty type relay. > > Have you found any other hotspots? > > Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup > the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:32 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls My G3X install manual is out of date. It's possible the 2 voltages can be split to 2 different gauges. Check section 18 of your install manual and if possible try it out on an existing installation with 2 voltage inputs. You may be able to set the warnings up as desired. On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 9:35 AM Sebastien wrote: > Igor section 18 of the G3X installation manual has all the information for > configuring your EIS. While the G3X does support display of 2 different > voltage sources, it will combine them on one gauge. This means that your > Master Caution alarm and Master Warning alarm thresholds will have to be > appropriate to both voltages. I recommend you do not set any Master > Warning, and set your Master Caution alarm to ~13.7 V. If either bus falls > below this level, you get a warning and can plan accordingly while your > battery is still fully charged. > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 6:11 AM supik wrote: > >> >> I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the >> MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I >> hope, it's more clear now. >> >> The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post. >> >> The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR >> flight and will be ON. >> >> Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay >> with a continuos duty type relay. >> >> Have you found any other hotspots? >> >> Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup >> the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP? >> >> -------- >> Igor >> >> RV10 in progress >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:23 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Also the labels available are Main Bus and Aux Bus or Bus 1 and Bus 2. You may want to go with the latter for clarity since an ESS bus is definitely not an AUX bus. On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 8:09 AM supik wrote: > > > trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: > > As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldn=99t find your OP. Which > voltages are you monitoring, and where? > > > > Carlos > > > > Enviado do meu iPhone > > > > > Snip from my original post: > > Respective BUS voltages monitored by G3X Touch. > -MAIN BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.8V triggers (MASTER CAUT) > MAIN BUS LV > -ESS BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.0V triggers (MASTER WARN) ES S > BUS LV > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486966#486966 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: > Also the labels available are Main Bus and Aux Bus or Bus 1 and Bus 2. You may want to go with the latter for clarity since an ESS bus is definitely not an AUX bus. > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 8:09 AM supik wrote: > > > > > > > > trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (http://mail.telepac.pt) wrote: > > > As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldnt find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where? > > > > > > Carlos > > > > > > Enviado do meu iPhone > > > > > > > > > Snip from my original post: > > > > Respective BUS voltages monitored by G3X Touch. > > -MAIN BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.8V triggers (MASTER CAUT) MAIN BUS LV > > -ESS BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.0V triggers (MASTER WARN) ESS BUS LV > > > > -------- > > Igor > > > > RV10 in progress > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486966#486966 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486966#486966) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > > - > > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > ========== > > FORUMS - > > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > WIKI - > > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > > ========== > > b Site - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > > Thanks Carlos, I was afraid, the system will not allow labeling the ESS BUS. -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486973#486973 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:00 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Internally Regulated Over Voltage Protection From: "BMC_Dave" Adding to the questions, are there any negatives to leaving the e-bus alt feed closed for normal operations? Or would an additional diode between the e-bus alt feed and diode be prudent to avoid alternators trying to charge the battery through the alt feed? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486974#486974 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:49 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible to label the indicators.. -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image002_511.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:03 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Please post the picture and your install manual. On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 15:38 supik > I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible > to label the indicators.. > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image002_511.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:27 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: > Please post the picture and your install manual. > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 15:38 supik AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" > > I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible to label the indicators.. > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975) > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image002_511.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/image002_511.jpg) > > > > ========== > - > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > [/quote] Carlos, the picture is uploaded in my previous post.. You can download the current manual directly from the Garmin website. -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486977#486977 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:23 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls From: "supik" Bob, in case the ALT-2 is OFF and the ESS BUS contactor closed, so that the feed to the ESS BUS reverses; Least resistance to the ESS BUS will go through the ESS BUS Contactor when fed from ALT-1 or battery (ESS BUS will be fed through the diode only if ESS BUS Contactor open); -will I need to have a circuit protection right after the ESS BUS Contactor facing the ESS BUS or is the circuit breaker at the ESS BUS sufficient to protect the wire? thanks, Igor -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486978#486978 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:57 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Since they can be displayed as separate gauges, you will be able to set up your alarms as you wanted in your OP. On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 16:04 supik > > cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: > > Please post the picture and your install manual. > > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 15:38 supik AeroElectric-List message posted by: > "supik" > > > > I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is > possible to label the indicators.. > > > > -------- > > Igor > > > > RV10 in progress > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975 ( > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975) > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image002_511.jpg ( > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image002_511.jpg) > > > > > > > > ========== > > - > > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > ========== > > FORUMS - > > eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > WIKI - > > errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > > ========== > > b Site - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > > [/quote] > > Carlos, the picture is uploaded in my previous post.. You can download the > current manual directly from the Garmin website. > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486977#486977 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.