Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:21 AM - Quick transponder cavity tube test (Skip)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:18 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Alec Myers)
4. 09:39 AM - Piper Arrow Pitot Mast (William Hunter)
5. 10:04 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Kelly McMullen)
6. 10:17 AM - Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter)
7. 10:18 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Sebastien)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Sebastien)
9. 10:54 AM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (jsajpf)
10. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter)
11. 11:06 AM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (Harley Dixon)
12. 11:20 AM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter)
13. 01:04 PM - Re: Piper Arrow Pitot Mast (Charlie England)
14. 05:48 PM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (jsajpf)
15. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Quick transponder cavity tube test |
I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect junk.
=C2- I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk.=C2- Is th
ere a cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad?=C2- thanks in a
dvance, Skip
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test |
At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote:
>I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect
>junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is
>there a cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks
>in advance, Skip
>
That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test
equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary
shops would even know how to test them
much less have the equipment.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test |
Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy sets up
a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to his yellow box,
and checks the transponders working and outputting the right mode C codes
for the pressure in the pitot system. You dont get a power measurement but his
box does check the output frequency.
So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube.
The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you cable the transponder
directly into it. Im not sure. So worth enquiring at an avionics place.
On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote:
> I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect junk. I
understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there a cheap easy
way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, Skip
>
That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test
equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary
shops would even know how to test them
much less have the equipment.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Piper Arrow Pitot Mast |
Greetings,
Does anybody happen to have a manual or specifications sheet for a Piper
Arrow pitot-static mast?
What amp rating circuit breaker should I use to protect this circuit (I am
using 12 AWG Tefzel wire)?
I have one of these installed on my experimental airplane and I would like
to have some kind of instruction sheet for each component installed and
this is one of the last items I do not have an instruction sheet on.
Thanks!!!
Bill Hunter
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 15:23 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> The latest/greatest specimin in the
> stable of Battery Tender wall warts
> came in.
>
> I dug around in the shop and came up
> with an SVLA battery out of a portable
> air compressor that showed about 9v
> open circuit. When impressed with 14.2
> volts, charge current stabilized at
> about 0.4 amps and would not go any
> lower. After being on charge for about
> 5 hours, I loaded it with 1A and the
> terminal voltage fell to about 11 volts.
>
> I.e. capacity of zero.
>
> I deduce that no cells are shorted.
> I hooked it to the new Battery
> Tender and invoked the maintenance
> mode.
>
> Here are the pertinent pages from the
> users manual.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Battery_Tender.pdf
>
>
> With a 'scope hooked to the battery we
> see this:
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Yeah, it 'hammers' the battery with 25uS, 16v pulses
> probably 2A or better at an 8.2KHz rate.
>
> I saw no signals that suggested credence for the
> magic 3.26Mhz 'resonant frequency' of lead sulfate . . .
> which I think is bogus. How any physical mass of
> those dimensions might offer resonance at a
> wavelength of 97 meters begs some light-
> footed explanation.
>
> Nonetheless, the product does have a 'hammer'
> mode. The literature suggests that a badly sulfated
> battery may require weeks of rejuvenation . . . this
> test article is in pretty bad shape so we'll
> let 'er cook.
>
> BTW I see that BatteryMinder has come out with
> a 'desulfator' product.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y4682h48
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test |
Unless they have disposed of transponder bench check units, most
avionics shops can test on the bench for power output and frequency
accuracy/waveform. Until a couple years ago, when I sold airplane, I had
a Narco AT50 with good cavity tube..ie still putting out rated power.
That is a 50 year old design. I would think that most would consider
cavity tube ok if it puts out 90 % of rated power, but I don't know what
the standard is.
On 3/29/2019 7:07 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy sets
up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to his yellow
box, and checks the transponders working and outputting the right mode C codes
for the pressure in the pitot system. You dont get a power measurement but his
box does check the output frequency.
>
> So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube.
>
> The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you cable the
transponder directly into it. Im not sure. So worth enquiring at an avionics
place.
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote:
>> I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect junk. I
understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there a cheap easy
way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, Skip
>>
>
> That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test
> equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary
> shops would even know how to test them
> much less have the equipment.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Klixon Circuit Breakers |
I am needing to replace a klixon 7277 circuit breaker and I see that they
come in two varieties.
Does anybody know what the difference between the 7277 - 1 and the 7277 - 2
circuit breakers is?
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test |
I'm sure that if your avionics guy is certifying your transponder he is
checking the power output at some point. Either on the bench or with his
yellow box.Appendix F to Part 43=94ATC Transponder Tests and Inspecti
ons
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=5829ce2954d4be54fdd72f9a80db678
1&mc=true&node=pt14.1.43&rgn=div5#ap14.1.43_117.f
(1) Verify that the transponder RF output power is within specifications
for the class of transponder. Use the same conditions as described in
(c)(1)(i), (ii), and (iii) above.
(i) For Class 1A and 2A ATCRBS transponders, verify that the minimum RF
peak output power is at least 21.0 dbw (125 watts).
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 7:24 AM Alec Myers <alec@alecmyers.com> wrote:
>
> Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy
> sets up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to
> his yellow box, and checks the transponder=99s working and outputti
ng the
> right mode C codes for the pressure in the pitot system. You don=99
t get a
> power measurement but his box does check the output frequency.
>
> So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube.
>
> The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you cable
> the transponder directly into it. I=99m not sure. So worth enquirin
g at an
> avionics place.
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote:
> > I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect
> junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there
a
> cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, S
kip
> >
>
> That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test
> equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary
> shops would even know how to test them
> much less have the equipment.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test |
"I would think that most would consider cavity tube ok if it puts out 90 %
of rated power, but I don't know what the standard is. "
125 W, and you're allowed 3db loss in the cable to the antenna.
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:15 AM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote
:
> kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Unless they have disposed of transponder bench check units, most
> avionics shops can test on the bench for power output and frequency
> accuracy/waveform. Until a couple years ago, when I sold airplane, I had
> a Narco AT50 with good cavity tube..ie still putting out rated power.
> That is a 50 year old design. I would think that most would consider
> cavity tube ok if it puts out 90 % of rated power, but I don't know what
> the standard is.
>
> On 3/29/2019 7:07 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> >
> > Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy
> sets up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to
> his yellow box, and checks the transponder=99s working and outputti
ng the
> right mode C codes for the pressure in the pitot system. You don=99
t get a
> power measurement but his box does check the output frequency.
> >
> > So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube.
> >
> > The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you
> cable the transponder directly into it. I=99m not sure. So worth en
quiring at
> an avionics place.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> >
> > At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote:
> >> I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect
> junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there
a
> cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, S
kip
> >>
> >
> > That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test
> > equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary
> > shops would even know how to test them
> > much less have the equipment.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers |
Bill,
The -2 is a military spec grade device (tighter calibration limits) per the device data sheet found here: https://www.sensata.com/products/electrical-protection/7277-aircraft-circuit-breaker.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488350#488350
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers |
>The -2 is a military spec grade device
I guess another way to explain is "the - 2 is more expensive"
John thanks for the quick reply in your help!
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 11:00 jsajpf <john.friday_adis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> john.friday_adis@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> The -2 is a military spec grade device (tighter calibration limits) per
> the device data sheet found here:
> https://www.sensata.com/products/electrical-protection/7277-aircraft-circuit-breaker
> .
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488350#488350
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers |
From Sensata (https://www.sensata.com/);
The military grade version of this circuit breaker is the Klixon 7274-
2 series. The 7277 and 7274-2 series circuit breakers are physically and
electrically identical, with the exception that the 7277 has wider
calibration limits.
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/29/2019 1:16 PM, William Hunter wrote:
> I am needing to replace a klixon 7277 circuit breaker and I see that
> they come in two varieties.
>
> Does anybody know what the difference between the 7277 - 1 and the
> 7277 - 2 circuit breakers is?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Hunter
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers |
>The military grade version of this circuit breaker is the Klixon=C2=AE 727
4- 2
series. The 7277 and 7274-2 series circuit breakers are physically and
electrically identical, with the exception that the 7277 has wider
calibration limits.
Looking at the Aircraft Spruce website the Klixon circuit breaker 7277-1-10
is $36 and the Klixon circuit breaker 7277-2-10 is only $21 so it seems to
me that the - 2 would be lower quality and therefore lower cost.
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 11:11 Harley Dixon <harley@agelesswings.com> wrote:
> From Sensata (https://www.sensata.com/);
>
> The military grade version of this circuit breaker is the Klixon=C2=AE 72
74- 2
> series. The 7277 and 7274-2 series circuit breakers are physically and
> electrically identical, with the exception that the 7277 has wider
> calibration limits.
>
> Harley
> ------------------------------
>
> On 3/29/2019 1:16 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> I am needing to replace a klixon 7277 circuit breaker and I see that they
> come in two varieties.
>
> Does anybody know what the difference between the 7277 - 1 and the 7277 -
> 2 circuit breakers is?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Piper Arrow Pitot Mast |
On 3/29/2019 11:36 AM, William Hunter wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> Does anybody happen to have a manual or specifications sheet for a
> Piper Arrow pitot-static mast?
>
> What amp rating circuit breaker should I use to protect this circuit
> (I am using 12 AWG Tefzel wire)?
>
> I have one of these installed on my experimental airplane and I would
> like to have some kind of instruction sheet for each component
> installed and this is one of the last items I do not have an
> instruction sheet on.
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
The breaker should protect the wire, so just use a chart that gives max
capacity for #12 wire.
Are there no brand/model markings on the mast? It seems likely that
Piper would just buy a common part.
Charlie
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers |
Bill,
I owe you an apology. The info I posted was incorrect due to my mis-reading of
the web site info.
The 7277-1 contains an auxiliary circuit that closes when the CB trips. Ref. the drawings available on the Sensata site for the 7277 series breakers (https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-1-R_drawing_pdf.pdf) and (https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-2-P_drawing_pdf..pdf).
The aux circuit would be suitable for a CB monitoring system (i.e. Airbus a/c display
cb status to the crew and annunciate a trip for critical systems).
Sorry for the confusion,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488359#488359
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers |
Not a problem... I was able to figure out that the - 2 was the cheaper so
that is what I got... thanks again!!!
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 17:53 jsajpf <john.friday_adis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> john.friday_adis@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> I owe you an apology. The info I posted was incorrect due to my
> mis-reading of the web site info.
>
> The 7277-1 contains an auxiliary circuit that closes when the CB trips.
> Ref. the drawings available on the Sensata site for the 7277 series
> breakers (
> https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-1-R_drawing_pdf.pdf)
> and (
> https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-2-P_drawing_pdf..pdf
> ).
>
> The aux circuit would be suitable for a CB monitoring system (i.e. Airbus
> a/c display cb status to the crew and annunciate a trip for critical
> systems).
>
> Sorry for the confusion,
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488359#488359
>
>
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