---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/29/19: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Quick transponder cavity tube test (Skip) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:18 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Alec Myers) 4. 09:39 AM - Piper Arrow Pitot Mast (William Hunter) 5. 10:04 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Kelly McMullen) 6. 10:17 AM - Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter) 7. 10:18 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Sebastien) 8. 10:18 AM - Re: Quick transponder cavity tube test (Sebastien) 9. 10:54 AM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (jsajpf) 10. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter) 11. 11:06 AM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (Harley Dixon) 12. 11:20 AM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter) 13. 01:04 PM - Re: Piper Arrow Pitot Mast (Charlie England) 14. 05:48 PM - Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (jsajpf) 15. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers (William Hunter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:36 AM PST US From: Skip Subject: AeroElectric-List: Quick transponder cavity tube test I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect junk. =C2- I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk.=C2- Is th ere a cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad?=C2- thanks in a dvance, Skip ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quick transponder cavity tube test At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote: >I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect >junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is >there a cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks >in advance, Skip > That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary shops would even know how to test them much less have the equipment. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:11 AM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quick transponder cavity tube test Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy sets up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to his yellow box, and checks the transponders working and outputting the right mode C codes for the pressure in the pitot system. You dont get a power measurement but his box does check the output frequency. So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube. The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you cable the transponder directly into it. Im not sure. So worth enquiring at an avionics place. On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote: > I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there a cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, Skip > That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary shops would even know how to test them much less have the equipment. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:02 AM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: AeroElectric-List: Piper Arrow Pitot Mast Greetings, Does anybody happen to have a manual or specifications sheet for a Piper Arrow pitot-static mast? What amp rating circuit breaker should I use to protect this circuit (I am using 12 AWG Tefzel wire)? I have one of these installed on my experimental airplane and I would like to have some kind of instruction sheet for each component installed and this is one of the last items I do not have an instruction sheet on. Thanks!!! Bill Hunter On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 15:23 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > The latest/greatest specimin in the > stable of Battery Tender wall warts > came in. > > I dug around in the shop and came up > with an SVLA battery out of a portable > air compressor that showed about 9v > open circuit. When impressed with 14.2 > volts, charge current stabilized at > about 0.4 amps and would not go any > lower. After being on charge for about > 5 hours, I loaded it with 1A and the > terminal voltage fell to about 11 volts. > > I.e. capacity of zero. > > I deduce that no cells are shorted. > I hooked it to the new Battery > Tender and invoked the maintenance > mode. > > Here are the pertinent pages from the > users manual. > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Battery_Tender.pdf > > > With a 'scope hooked to the battery we > see this: > [image: Emacs!] > > Yeah, it 'hammers' the battery with 25uS, 16v pulses > probably 2A or better at an 8.2KHz rate. > > I saw no signals that suggested credence for the > magic 3.26Mhz 'resonant frequency' of lead sulfate . . . > which I think is bogus. How any physical mass of > those dimensions might offer resonance at a > wavelength of 97 meters begs some light- > footed explanation. > > Nonetheless, the product does have a 'hammer' > mode. The literature suggests that a badly sulfated > battery may require weeks of rejuvenation . . . this > test article is in pretty bad shape so we'll > let 'er cook. > > BTW I see that BatteryMinder has come out with > a 'desulfator' product. > > https://tinyurl.com/y4682h48 > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quick transponder cavity tube test From: Kelly McMullen Unless they have disposed of transponder bench check units, most avionics shops can test on the bench for power output and frequency accuracy/waveform. Until a couple years ago, when I sold airplane, I had a Narco AT50 with good cavity tube..ie still putting out rated power. That is a 50 year old design. I would think that most would consider cavity tube ok if it puts out 90 % of rated power, but I don't know what the standard is. On 3/29/2019 7:07 AM, Alec Myers wrote: > > Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy sets up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to his yellow box, and checks the transponders working and outputting the right mode C codes for the pressure in the pitot system. You dont get a power measurement but his box does check the output frequency. > > So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube. > > The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you cable the transponder directly into it. Im not sure. So worth enquiring at an avionics place. > > > > > On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote: >> I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there a cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, Skip >> > > That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test > equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary > shops would even know how to test them > much less have the equipment. > > Bob . . . > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:24 AM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: AeroElectric-List: Klixon Circuit Breakers I am needing to replace a klixon 7277 circuit breaker and I see that they come in two varieties. Does anybody know what the difference between the 7277 - 1 and the 7277 - 2 circuit breakers is? Thanks, Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:29 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quick transponder cavity tube test I'm sure that if your avionics guy is certifying your transponder he is checking the power output at some point. Either on the bench or with his yellow box.Appendix F to Part 43=94ATC Transponder Tests and Inspecti ons https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=5829ce2954d4be54fdd72f9a80db678 1&mc=true&node=pt14.1.43&rgn=div5#ap14.1.43_117.f (1) Verify that the transponder RF output power is within specifications for the class of transponder. Use the same conditions as described in (c)(1)(i), (ii), and (iii) above. (i) For Class 1A and 2A ATCRBS transponders, verify that the minimum RF peak output power is at least 21.0 dbw (125 watts). On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 7:24 AM Alec Myers wrote: > > Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy > sets up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to > his yellow box, and checks the transponder=99s working and outputti ng the > right mode C codes for the pressure in the pitot system. You don=99 t get a > power measurement but his box does check the output frequency. > > So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube. > > The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you cable > the transponder directly into it. I=99m not sure. So worth enquirin g at an > avionics place. > > > On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote: > > I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect > junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there a > cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, S kip > > > > That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test > equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary > shops would even know how to test them > much less have the equipment. > > Bob . . . > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:43 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quick transponder cavity tube test "I would think that most would consider cavity tube ok if it puts out 90 % of rated power, but I don't know what the standard is. " 125 W, and you're allowed 3db loss in the cable to the antenna. On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 10:15 AM Kelly McMullen wrote : > kellym@aviating.com> > > Unless they have disposed of transponder bench check units, most > avionics shops can test on the bench for power output and frequency > accuracy/waveform. Until a couple years ago, when I sold airplane, I had > a Narco AT50 with good cavity tube..ie still putting out rated power. > That is a 50 year old design. I would think that most would consider > cavity tube ok if it puts out 90 % of rated power, but I don't know what > the standard is. > > On 3/29/2019 7:07 AM, Alec Myers wrote: > > > > > Every time I get my static system rectified (24 months) my avionics guy > sets up a little antenna on a stand next to the airplane, connects it to > his yellow box, and checks the transponder=99s working and outputti ng the > right mode C codes for the pressure in the pitot system. You don=99 t get a > power measurement but his box does check the output frequency. > > > > So that sort of test would give you a go/no-go for the tube. > > > > The text box might have a transmitted power measurement too, if you > cable the transponder directly into it. I=99m not sure. So worth en quiring at > an avionics place. > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > > > At 02:10 AM 3/29/2019, you wrote: > >> I inherited 6 older transponders, from someone not known to collect > junk. I understand that if the cavity tube is bad, it is junk. Is there a > cheap easy way to verify if the cavity tube is bad? thanks in advance, S kip > >> > > > > That takes some pretty sophisticated bench test > > equipment . . . I'm not sure that contemporary > > shops would even know how to test them > > much less have the equipment. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers From: "jsajpf" Bill, The -2 is a military spec grade device (tighter calibration limits) per the device data sheet found here: https://www.sensata.com/products/electrical-protection/7277-aircraft-circuit-breaker. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488350#488350 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:51 AM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers >The -2 is a military spec grade device I guess another way to explain is "the - 2 is more expensive" John thanks for the quick reply in your help! Thanks, Bill Hunter On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 11:00 jsajpf wrote: > john.friday_adis@sbcglobal.net> > > Bill, > > The -2 is a military spec grade device (tighter calibration limits) per > the device data sheet found here: > https://www.sensata.com/products/electrical-protection/7277-aircraft-circuit-breaker > . > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488350#488350 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Klixon Circuit Breakers From: Harley Dixon From Sensata (https://www.sensata.com/); The military grade version of this circuit breaker is the Klixon 7274- 2 series. The 7277 and 7274-2 series circuit breakers are physically and electrically identical, with the exception that the 7277 has wider calibration limits. Harley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 3/29/2019 1:16 PM, William Hunter wrote: > I am needing to replace a klixon 7277 circuit breaker and I see that > they come in two varieties. > > Does anybody know what the difference between the 7277 - 1 and the > 7277 - 2 circuit breakers is? > > Thanks, > > Bill Hunter ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:03 AM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Klixon Circuit Breakers >The military grade version of this circuit breaker is the Klixon=C2=AE 727 4- 2 series. The 7277 and 7274-2 series circuit breakers are physically and electrically identical, with the exception that the 7277 has wider calibration limits. Looking at the Aircraft Spruce website the Klixon circuit breaker 7277-1-10 is $36 and the Klixon circuit breaker 7277-2-10 is only $21 so it seems to me that the - 2 would be lower quality and therefore lower cost. Thanks, Bill Hunter On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 11:11 Harley Dixon wrote: > From Sensata (https://www.sensata.com/); > > The military grade version of this circuit breaker is the Klixon=C2=AE 72 74- 2 > series. The 7277 and 7274-2 series circuit breakers are physically and > electrically identical, with the exception that the 7277 has wider > calibration limits. > > Harley > ------------------------------ > > On 3/29/2019 1:16 PM, William Hunter wrote: > > I am needing to replace a klixon 7277 circuit breaker and I see that they > come in two varieties. > > Does anybody know what the difference between the 7277 - 1 and the 7277 - > 2 circuit breakers is? > > Thanks, > > Bill Hunter > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Piper Arrow Pitot Mast From: Charlie England On 3/29/2019 11:36 AM, William Hunter wrote: > Greetings, > > Does anybody happen to have a manual or specifications sheet for a > Piper Arrow pitot-static mast? > > What amp rating circuit breaker should I use to protect this circuit > (I am using 12 AWG Tefzel wire)? > > I have one of these installed on my experimental airplane and I would > like to have some kind of instruction sheet for each component > installed and this is one of the last items I do not have an > instruction sheet on. > > Thanks!!! > > Bill Hunter > The breaker should protect the wire, so just use a chart that gives max capacity for #12 wire. Are there no brand/model markings on the mast? It seems likely that Piper would just buy a common part. Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:34 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers From: "jsajpf" Bill, I owe you an apology. The info I posted was incorrect due to my mis-reading of the web site info. The 7277-1 contains an auxiliary circuit that closes when the CB trips. Ref. the drawings available on the Sensata site for the 7277 series breakers (https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-1-R_drawing_pdf.pdf) and (https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-2-P_drawing_pdf..pdf). The aux circuit would be suitable for a CB monitoring system (i.e. Airbus a/c display cb status to the crew and annunciate a trip for critical systems). Sorry for the confusion, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488359#488359 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:25 PM PST US From: William Hunter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Klixon Circuit Breakers Not a problem... I was able to figure out that the - 2 was the cheaper so that is what I got... thanks again!!! Thanks, Bill Hunter On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 17:53 jsajpf wrote: > john.friday_adis@sbcglobal.net> > > Bill, > > I owe you an apology. The info I posted was incorrect due to my > mis-reading of the web site info. > > The 7277-1 contains an auxiliary circuit that closes when the CB trips. > Ref. the drawings available on the Sensata site for the 7277 series > breakers ( > https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-1-R_drawing_pdf.pdf) > and ( > https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/ourproducts_AircraftCircuitBreaker_7277Series_7277-2-P_drawing_pdf..pdf > ). > > The aux circuit would be suitable for a CB monitoring system (i.e. Airbus > a/c display cb status to the crew and annunciate a trip for critical > systems). > > Sorry for the confusion, > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488359#488359 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.