Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question (Ernest Christley)
2. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 01:03 PM - Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question (farmrjohn)
5. 03:55 PM - Re: 2 alternators and 3 questions (Pat Little)
6. 06:40 PM - Antenna Ground Plane ()
7. 07:03 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Kelly McMullen)
8. 07:42 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Charlie England)
9. 08:14 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Robert Reed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question |
Do you think we could get a petition to these manufacturers that think the
y're doing someone a favor by shipping products with these "whiskers preten
ding to be wires" sticking out?=C2- (I'm talking to YOU, Ray Allen).=C2
- Is there any builder that doesn't first have to figure out how to strip
those tiny wires without breaking the wires and then find the crimpers to
attach a pin to shove into a DB-9 connector?=C2- Just stick a stupid fema
le DB connector on the appliance case, because that is what every single pe
rson is going to have to do for a maintenance disconnect anyway.=C2- Ther
e would be so many fewer curse words in my lexicon if this was just standar
d practice.
On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 3:01:58 PM EDT, Charlie England <ceengland7
@gmail.com> wrote:
Sent from BlueMail On May 29, 2019, at 1:22 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 04:02 PM 5/28/2019, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard@yahoo.co
m>
Bare Wire Question, Part II.=C2- I asked Garmin about the AWG for thewire
s in the harness.=C2- Their reply 20AWG for power and ground, and26AWG or
28AWG for the others.=C2- The pins I see online at AircraftSpruce of Ste
inair only show 20-24AWG as the working range.=C2- Arepins for the smalle
r wires available, and will they work in a standardd-sub connector?=C2- I
would use either 20 or 22 for the connections tothe rest of the airplane.
22AWG is quite adequate for all the Garmin
wiring. That '20AWG power and ground" meme
has been around for decades . . . I have no
idea as to the rational behind it in small
appliances that draw small currents. I suppose
someone thought that it was a good thing to
minimize the resistance/reactance between
their electro-whizzy and the ship's power
supply . . . but to levy this as a requirement
suggests that their DO160 qualification testing
was sketchy . . . it makes no sense to me
whatsoever.
=C2- Bob . . .
John,
On the pin question, I'd just strip a 22 gauge wire and stick it in next to
the 24 or 28 gauge wire in a standard pin, prior to crimping.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question |
>
> > > >
> > > > Bare Wire Question, Part II. I asked Garmin about the AWG
> for the wires in the harness. Their reply 20AWG for power and
> ground, and 26AWG or 28AWG for the others. The pins I see online
> at Aircraft Spruce of Steinair only show 20-24AWG as the working
> range. Are pins for the smaller wires available, and will they
> work in a standard d-sub connector? I would use either 20 or 22
> for the connections to the rest of the airplane.
> > >
If it were my airplane:
https://tinyurl.com/y5slt47b
The harness mod drawing above speaks
to a cleaner installation and no special
pins or tools.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question |
At 10:35 AM 5/30/2019, you wrote:
>Do you think we could get a petition to these manufacturers that
>think they're doing someone a favor by shipping products with these
>"whiskers pretending to be wires" sticking out? (I'm talking to
>YOU, Ray Allen). Is there any builder that doesn't first have to
>figure out how to strip those tiny wires without breaking the wires
>and then find the crimpers to attach a pin to shove into a DB-9
>connector? Just stick a stupid female DB connector on the appliance
>case, because that is what every single person is going to have to
>do for a maintenance disconnect anyway. There would be so many
>fewer curse words in my lexicon if this was just standard practice.
Tried that . . . several times . . .
about 20 years. The RayAllen folks
in the booth at OSH just shrugged it
off, "Haven't had any complaints . . .
been do'n it this way for years."
Actually, they're very much AWARE
of the problems as illustrated on their
FAQs page:
Emacs!
These paragraphs are illustrative of
their intransigence and why I crafted this
ShopNote.
https://tinyurl.com/cmq7epd
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aera 660 Bare Wire Cradle Question |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>
> >
> > > >
>
> If it were my airplane:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y5slt47b (https://tinyurl.com/y5slt47b)
>
> The harness mod drawing above speaks
> to a cleaner installation and no special
> pins or tools.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
Thanks, I hadn't considered cutting the 660 harness. For connections I'm planning
on Red to power (from aux plug that the current plug in harness goes-no fancy
GPS EFI installed), Black to ground, Blue RS-232 TX to ACK E-04 elt, Green
Audio Common to GTR200 pin 31 audio in lo, and Brown Audio Left to GTR200 pin
32 audio in hi. The audio connections are per Garmin. I don't plan on connecting
the data portion of the 660 to the GTR200. The 660 Pilot's Guide Appendix
D does address the bare wire connections, but not the pins and connectors used.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489405#489405
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 2 alternators and 3 questions |
Bob, Joe, and Art: I have absorbed your comments and revised my loads
analysis (attached).
1. I now only show continuous/typical loads for the various flight
phases (one exception, perhaps, is the starter contactor, and it only
appears in one column)
2. I include pitot heat in the phases where it might get used, but also
added a line below the TOTALS line to show totals without pitot heat.
3. Now the loads in all phases of flight, with pitot heat on, are well
below 80% of the main alternator's rated load. With pitot heat off they
fall below 80% of rated load for the standby alternator.
4. No e-bus.
5. If the main alternator fails and pitot heat is needed (very low
likelihood of occurrence) then the pilot can turn off the landing lights
and/or the strobes and be under the stby alternator's rated load.
6. I am going to group the switches so the large non-essential loads are
at the right-hand end of the row to make load shedding easy and intuitive.
In the analysis spreadsheet I have placed these at the bottom of the main
bus.
More comments welcome :-)
I really appreciate the feedback - this listserve is great!
Thanks,
Pat
On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 10:08 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe all the numbers in my phase-of-flight columns should be average, and
> ignore transient peaks?
>
>
> Yes . . .
>
>
> I would love to be able to run both alternators all the time but I don't
> think I can (at least not without giving the pilot extra work to do)
> because my secondary alternator has a thermal restriction and needs to be
> kept below 17A. Depending on details of how the the two alternators behave
> at high currents, i.e., how their voltages droop as current increases, the
> secondary may exceed 17A when pitot heat is on and would need to be
> cosseted even though the bus voltage, with both alternators contributing,
> is still plenty above LV warn level. So, the pilot would have to monitor
> the secondary's current which is extra work. And I agree that is a Bad Idea.
>
>
> Your gut is right . . . AMMETERS are
> bad flight management instrumentation.
>
> Your various "plans" based on flight
> conditions are predictable. That's
> what the load analysis is all about.
> We've built millions of airplanes
> with no ammeters in them. It's only
> since the glass cockpit guys started
> adding them to the list of features
> that pilots are beginning to think
> that (1) gee, if I can go measure a current,
> why not? (2) but which current and for
> what operational purpose? (3) now
> that I can track that feature in flight,
> what are my pilot duties (work load)
> to observe and react to what I see?
>
> The answer to all three questions is
> zilch, zip, nada . . .
>
> If you've need to observe a manufacture's
> limit on an alternator load, then factor
> that into which switches are ON and OFF
> for the pre planned flight conditions
> (those columns in the load analysis).
>
> Ammeters are diagnostic instruments
> used to deduce malfunctions and
> plan repairs . . . on the ground.
> If you need to fiddle with the switches
> in flight while watching an ammeter,
> you've failed to exploit the value
> of the load analysis.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Antenna Ground Plane |
Hello,
I'm installing an ACK ELT in a composite aircraft and they recommend an
aluminum foil ground plane for the antenna.
My question is how do you ensure conductivity between the layers of the
adhesive aluminum foil and how do you attach the antenna to the foil?
They also want the antenna to be more than 3 ft away from the com antenna,
why would this be?
Thanks
Mike
Mike Pienaar
m <mailto:ike@vision499.com> ike@vision499.com
Home: +1 250-999-8121
Mike cell: +1 250-885-0554
1-1100 Tulip Ave, Victoria, BC, V8Z 0A2
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
I will just address your question of antenna separation. ELTs have
oscillator circuits to generate the multiple frequencies they transmit.
Those circuits can be activated by strong VHF signals, such as TV, FM
radio, etc. When that occurs the ELT re-radiates signals that are
received by your com radio. I had an aircraft where the ELT antenna was
18" behind the Loran antenna (a modified com antenna), and in front of
the Loran antenna 18 " was the com antenna. Whenever I flew within 10
miles of the local TV/FM antenna farm, I would get squelch break so bad
I couldn't hear the local tower or approach control frequencies, on both
com radios. Disconnected ELT antenna and problem went away. Reconnect
and it was back. I would suggest adhering to the antenna separation, and
if you have a second com, put the antenna for it on the belly.
On 5/30/2019 6:39 PM, mike@vision499.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Im installing an ACK ELT in a composite aircraft and they recommend an
> aluminum foil ground plane for the antenna.
>
> My question is how do you ensure conductivity between the layers of the
> adhesive aluminum foil and how do you attach the antenna to the foil?
>
> They also want the antenna to be more than 3 ft away from the com
> antenna, why would this be?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Pienaar
>
> _mike@vision499.com <mailto:ike@vision499.com>___
>
> *Home: +1 250-999-8121*
>
> Mike cell: +1 250-885-0554
>
> 1-1100 Tulip Ave, Victoria, BC, V8Z 0A2
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
I don't have any easy answers for aluminum foil, but copper foil is
easily soldered. Another option for only a slight weight penalty is to
cut thin aluminum strips, with the 'root' end cut big enough to accept
the antenna mounting bolts. Flashing material from your local building
supply is an easy, inexpensive source.
Charlie
On 5/30/2019 9:03 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> I will just address your question of antenna separation. ELTs have
> oscillator circuits to generate the multiple frequencies they
> transmit. Those circuits can be activated by strong VHF signals, such
> as TV, FM radio, etc. When that occurs the ELT re-radiates signals
> that are received by your com radio. I had an aircraft where the ELT
> antenna was 18" behind the Loran antenna (a modified com antenna), and
> in front of the Loran antenna 18 " was the com antenna. Whenever I
> flew within 10 miles of the local TV/FM antenna farm, I would get
> squelch break so bad I couldn't hear the local tower or approach
> control frequencies, on both com radios. Disconnected ELT antenna and
> problem went away. Reconnect and it was back. I would suggest adhering
> to the antenna separation, and if you have a second com, put the
> antenna for it on the belly.
>
> On 5/30/2019 6:39 PM, mike@vision499.com wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Im installing an ACK ELT in a composite aircraft and they recommend
>> an aluminum foil ground plane for the antenna.
>>
>> My question is how do you ensure conductivity between the layers of
>> the adhesive aluminum foil and how do you attach the antenna to the
>> foil?
>>
>> They also want the antenna to be more than 3 ft away from the com
>> antenna, why would this be?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Mike Pienaar
>>
>> _mike@vision499.com <mailto:ike@vision499.com>___
>>
>> *Home: +1 250-999-8121*
>>
>> Mike cell: +1 250-885-0554
>>
>> 1-1100 Tulip Ave, Victoria, BC, V8Z 0A2
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
To see my installation go to www.kissbuild.onfinal18.com
Select MY PROGRESS
Under Instrument Panel - Select Antenna Installation.
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 30, 2019, at 8:39 PM, <mike@vision499.com> <mike@vision499.com> wro
te:
>
> Hello,
>
> I=99m installing an ACK ELT in a composite aircraft and they recomme
nd an aluminum foil ground plane for the antenna.
>
> My question is how do you ensure conductivity between the layers of the ad
hesive aluminum foil and how do you attach the antenna to the foil?
>
> They also want the antenna to be more than 3 ft away from the com antenna,
why would this be?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Mike Pienaar
> mike@vision499.com
> Home: +1 250-999-8121
> Mike cell: +1 250-885-0554
> 1-1100 Tulip Ave, Victoria, BC, V8Z 0A2
>
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
>
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