---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/18/19: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:42 AM - CFI techniques for glass panel pilots (Andy Elliott) 2. 11:53 AM - Re: The down-side of "glass panels" (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:17 PM - Factory Certified but is this safe? (Michael Wynn) 4. 07:05 PM - Re: Factory Certified but is this safe? (user9253) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:14 AM PST US From: "Andy Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: CFI techniques for glass panel pilots I am an ex-military IP and civilian CFI for just over 40 years. (Ancient.) These days I mainly do flight reviews and WINGS instruction in experimentals with experienced pilots. It is true that part of the experimental community is especially enamored of glass panels and I have seen many panels with *no* back-up instruments. One technique I find especially good is to have the pilot remove/disable the moving map display(s) and turn off his tablet, then go to a local airport he has been to many times. The pilot has to look at the map ahead of time and pick out some visible landmarks, and find them in flight. Just like 40 years ago! Autopilot is allowed (Makes for much better traffic scanning), but only in the heading mode. No course tracking. Using this technique is especially interesting at night, where the advantage of lit-up towns and highways outside of cities is counterbalanced by the difficulty in finding things (like runways) in the dense sea of lights in modern cities. The sighting differences associated with altitude can be extreme, both favorably and un-. Pilots are apprehensive to start, but quickly regain basic flying/navigating skills, and invariably "find" all kinds of things enroute that they've been flying over for years and never seen! Every single pilot I've done this with has thought it a valuable training experience. FWIW, Andy Elliott ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: The down-side of "glass panels" At 05:16 PM 6/17/2019, you wrote: >Dear Bob, you're forwarding fake news. > >MCAS is not optional and is on all 737 MAX. It was part of the >certification of the aircraft. The launch and major customer of the >737 is not the Chinese government but Southwest airlines. It is not >possible to disable MCAS depending on the skin color of the pilots. I too am skeptical of that assertion by the author. Without a doubt, the new engine mods, while economically prudent, had a profound effect on handling qualities . . . effects that admittedly called for a new type rating. Maintaining the old 'type' required software to wash-out deleterious effects with automatic operation of motors connected to flight controls. I've been trying to imagine how my superiors would have responded to some change to our fleet of products that would required such profound assistance from the autopilot to maintain feel, stability and ride comfort of the original type. I don't think we could have sold such a thing. >I'm a 40 year old white guy with time on the 737. I am not at all >certain that I could have done better with the situation presented >to the Ethiopian Airlines pilots (unreliable airspeed and stall >warning, followed later by the aggressive trim down while they were >dealing with the former). Errors of display aside, the airplane was demonstrably plagued with an electro- mechanically induced pitching moment. I'm told that old Boeings had a mechanism in the control column that would mechanically lock the trim system should the pilot(s) find it necessary to put high pitch forces into the yoke. Airplanes I worked on had wheel master disconnect buttons that would remove power from every motor driving a control surface. This was a clear breakdown in the chain of data from flight test engineering to the pilots. Delays in punching the motors OFF contributed to increased airspeed that made manual recovery impossible. A trim actuator in a Learjet only has to push about 300 pounds in cruising flight but we had to qualify those actuators to MOVE 10,000 pounds in an upset condition (probably wishful thinking. Speeds that produce that kind of load was super- sonic . . . so any bets for 'hand flying' the airplane were moot). It illustrates the over arching urgency for very fast pilot response to unexpected, pitching events especially at high power. Killing flight surface motors and pulling back throttles needed to happen first and quickly . . . or the thing was going to become an uncontrollable sled ride. Admittedly nothing to do with 'glass panels' as information delivery systems. However, it has everything to do with a necessity for pilots to 'become one with the airplane'. The narratives we're hearing suggest a disconnect between design changes driven by a desire not to create a new aircraft type and the crews expected to manage all the failure modes not adequately addressed in the design. Tip of the hat to AeroElectric-Lister Robert Sultzbach for a heads-up on another example of pilots wrestling with a recalcitrant piece of hardware with inadequate training or management tools: https://tinyurl.com/ybap8z7x Fascinating presentation . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:19 PM PST US From: Michael Wynn Subject: AeroElectric-List: Factory Certified but is this safe? Hi all, I am rebuilding and restoring a 1977 factory certified S1-S Pitts.=C2- Th e electrical system is pretty basic but there is one aspect that I am tryin g to understand.=C2- The battery is located behind the pilot's seat.=C2 - There is a contactor directly adjacent that energizes the starter.=C2 - There is a large wire, #8 or so, that goes from the battery that goes d own the frame to the console between the pilot's legs where the circuit bre akers and switches reside.=C2- That wire goes into an ammeter and from th ere to the main bus, on which the various circuit breakers reside.=C2- Th ere is no fuse, contactor or other circuit interruption device between the battery and the console.=C2- If that main feed wire were to erode through or otherwise short, there would be nothing to stop the welding action unti l the battery died. I wired my RV8 per the excellent instructions in the Aeroelectric Connectio n.=C2- I feel quite safe about it.=C2- There is a very short run betwee n the batter and the main contactor but all other wires are protected.=C2 - Not so with the factory Pitts wiring.=C2- Should I be adding a fuse o r contactor or something near the battery to protect this circuit? Regards, Michael WynnRV8Pitts S1-SLivermore, CA ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:00 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Factory Certified but is this safe? From: "user9253" A pilot should have the ability to shut off electrical power near each source. A 40 amp automotive relay will work for this situation. I would NOT install a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489728#489728 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.