---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/29/19: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Re: shore power combined with LiFePO battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 05:01 AM - Re: shore power combined with LiFePO battery (Art Zemon) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: The joys of a Z-14 during an charging system failure (Bill Watson) 4. 08:09 AM - Re: shore power combined with LiFePO battery (Ken Ryan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: shore power combined with LiFePO battery At 10:34 PM 6/27/2019, you wrote: >Hi Ken; >Check out Battery Tender 022-0209-DL-WH which is a 4 and battery >charger/maintainer that is selectable for conventional or lithium >iron batteries. I have a lithium iron battery in my aircraft while >wiring that is continually plugged into this charger. Battery seems >happy. Allows me to do testing as I add each circuit. >Cheers! Stu. This device is not a 'ground power' source of energy. Ken needs a current limited, voltage regulated laboratory or bench supply that emulates his alternator/ battery system. Here's a couple of examples: https://tinyurl.com/y2nb5gyv https://tinyurl.com/y4taw7rc https://tinyurl.com/yytdzdvg These are suited for powering up the bus with the ship's battery and alternator OFF line. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:20 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: shore power combined with LiFePO battery Ken, I was in the same position when I was finishing up my airplane. I did two things that might work for you, too. First, I simply hooked up my plane's battery. I removed all of the fuses to the devices which did not need power. Then I turned on the master. That battery would run the EFIS for longer than I wanted to sit in the cockpit in the garage (mine happens to be lead acid but I expect your LiFePO will do the same). When I was not using the battery to power the airplane, I hooked up a charger and recharged it. Second, I found that my MGL iEFIS has a very good emulator. I loaded that onto my laptop and found that it was way more comfortable to sit in my armchair in my air conditioned living room and play with the emulator than it was to sit in the cockpit. It became my primary means of learning my EFIS. You didn't say which brand of EFIS you have but perhaps you can get some similar software. Maybe one or both of those ideas will work for you. They had the advantage of being simple and not requiring me to buy anything which is not useful for a long time (well past the time required to build the airplane). The only thing that I bought was a battery charger and, since I have a lead acid batter, that came from the local auto parts store. I don't know what you need for your LeFePO battery but presumably a charger is less expensive than a regulated power supply. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:48 AM Ken Ryan wrote: > I am finishing up my airplane and it is starting to sink in that I really > need to spend some hours sitting in it getting used to the instrumentation > (I have never used glass cockpit before this). So there is a need to sit in > the airplane with shore power connected to keep from running down the > EarthX battery. But I am concerned about using shore power with lithium > battery technology because of their charging sensitivities. What do you > guys think? Would it be okay to connect an adjustable power supply to the > electrical system, with the battery in place? If so, what should I set the > voltage for? The problem is that pulling the battery is a bit of a hassle > and takes about a half hour. Same for installation. It would be better if I > could just plug in. > > Thanks, > > Ken > > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Pray as if everything depends on God. Act as if everything depends on you.* ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: The joys of a Z-14 during an charging system failure From: Bill Watson An update on this old post - the LR3C did not fail as I concluded originally - the failure was due to a 'bad wire' (18ga Tefzel) The situation below was initially determined to be an intermittent failing LR3c regulator. The offending regulator was returned to the factory and a used unit from my shelf installed which seemed to work... until more intermittent failures were experienced. After much probing with a volt meter I determined that the wire from the main alternator running back to the LR3c pin 4 was fractured internally (!!). Now, I could not find the point at which it was fractured because the insulation was intact. But continuity testing did seem to indicate an unseen break in the wire. While this seemed and seems highly unlikely, I could reach no other conclusion. The wire did go from the regulator, thru a firewall penetration, around the engine and then was split into 2 leads to feed both terminals of the plug on the B&C L-40 alternator. Continuity checks from that split to the regulator end of the wire showed intermittent continuity. Obviously the engine vibrates and translates all over the place during operation, perhaps more than allowed for by my wire routing technique. I have taken advantage of the dual terminals on the L-40 and run 2 separate wires, along 2 separate routes, back to a single terminal on the regulator and all seems to be well. As frustrating as this problem was, and given the extended time period required to finally diagnose and fix, the Z-14 turned out to be very tolerant of not only the intermittent failure, but of the extended fix time. I was able to continue to fly without too much concern. Thanks Bob! On 4/15/2019 10:39 AM, Bill Watson wrote: > > > Having just passed 1100 hours on my RV-10, I experienced my 2nd LR3C > voltage regulator failure. Like the first, this turned out to be a > non-event despite some difficulty in problem determination. > > I installed a Z-14 dual bus, dual alternator, dual battery electrical > system. Specifically a B&C L-40, a B&C SD-20, (2) Odyssey PC680s, and > (2) LR3c B&C regulators. Dual mags but an electrically hungry panel > with (3) GRT EFISs and the rest of the usual kitchen sink. > > The charging system failure occurred during cruise in the normal > configuration; i.e. with both buses running independently and not > linked. I first noticed the voltage slowly drop on bus1. I switched > the cross-link on and off a few times and observed the voltage climb > each time suggesting something on bus1 had failed but bus2 was running > fine. > > Soon the low voltage light lit so I simply switched the cross link on > and completed the 2 hour leg. > > Upon landing and suspecting an LR3c failure, I ran through the problem > determination procedure per B&C. Problem was it all checked out so I > call them and they said it was probably a failed alternator. I sent > it in, they checked it out, the 1100 hour L-40 was just fine so they > sent it back for the cost of postage. I reinstalled it, reset the > belt tension and took a test flight. > > All was well on the test flight so a week later I went on a 3 leg > journey to DC, Pgh and return. No problems on the first 2 legs but on > the third leg, bus 1 was out again. It was a non-event relative to > finishing the 1.5 hour leg. > > I re-ran the regulator's PD procedure and step 4 failed (no voltage > drop for those following along). Since I had a previously repaired > one on the shelf, I simply swapped it out and was off and flying again. > > Findings: > > - The LR3c can 'soft-fail' and can be suspect even if PD checks out. > > - The 20amp backup alternator is capable of running my full daytime > cruising load including battery charging. It only comes up short at > low RPMs during ground ops. > > - The 40amp main alternator is enough for my fully loaded RV10 and > will keep things running and charging even during low RPM ground ops > (I already knew this). > > - The Z-14 provides a great deal of 'dispatch reliability'. I can > finish out a trip and get home safely in most instances even with a > failed regulator or alternator. I feel confident enough to take off > with one side failed if need be, an example being on trips to the > Bahamas as long as battery life will carry me to an airport even with > a 2nd charging system failure. > > - Don't mount the LR3c on the back of the firewall up under the RV10 > panel where it is so *^*&^I%%$$#GD hard to get at for adjustment or > replacement. > > Bill "experiencing the joys of ongoing OBAM aircraft maintenance" Watson > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:45 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: shore power combined with LiFePO battery Thanks everyone for the replies. I created a non existent problem when I failed to make the obvious observation that if the master is not close d the battery is out of the picture, and so all I need to do is to connect my power supply to a point downstream from the battery contactor, as Bob pointed out. That's easy. I'm going to look for a Dynon Skyview emulator. That's the best solution to this particular problem. On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 03:24 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 10:34 PM 6/27/2019, you wrote: > > Hi Ken; > Check out Battery Tender 022-0209-DL-WH which is a 4 and battery > charger/maintainer that is selectable for conventional or lithium iron > batteries. I have a lithium iron battery in my aircraft while wiring that > is continually plugged into this charger. Battery seems happy. Allows me to > do testing as I add each circuit. > Cheers! Stu. > > > This device is not a 'ground power' source of energy. > Ken needs a current limited, voltage regulated > laboratory or bench supply that emulates his alternator/ > battery system. > > Here's a couple of examples: > > https://tinyurl.com/y2nb5gyv > > https://tinyurl.com/y4taw7rc > > https://tinyurl.com/yytdzdvg > > These are suited for powering up the bus > with the ship's battery and alternator > OFF line. > > > Bob . . . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.