---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/13/19: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - [OT] IFR-certified GPS Suggestions (Art Zemon) 2. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Ken Ryan) 4. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Sebastien) 5. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Sebastien) 6. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Charlie England) 7. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Ken Ryan) 8. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Charlie England) 9. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Ken Ryan) 10. 04:23 PM - Re: [OT] IFR-certified GPS Suggestions (Alec Myers) 11. 04:23 PM - Updated Z-12 available yet (Michael Burbidge) 12. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (r.r.hall@cox.net r.r.hall@cox.net) 13. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line (Sebastien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:06 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: AeroElectric-List: [OT] IFR-certified GPS Suggestions This is somewhat off-topic but I figure y'all know a lot about airplanes so you might have opinions about avionics, too. I reserved space in my panel for a Garmin 430 WAAS or a Garmin 650. Now that Oshkosh is upon us, perhaps I can save a few pennies on an IFR-certified GPS that will fit in that hole. It doesn=99t have to be a Garmin; that is just the size hole that I cut when I did the rest of the panel. What suggestions do you have, both for equipment and vendor? -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:14 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has >been 14.1 on the last several flights. > >The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >alternator was as well. It looks new. Okay, it sounds like this alternator has no known track record. Emacs! I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your data plot and it appears that alternator OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a LOT of on/off transients. Does this alternator have a built in regulator or external regulator? If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, you need to put a voltmeter on the Field terminal during a flight to see if the transient is upstream (in the regulator or associate wiring) or downstream (in the alternator). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:49 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Bob, what is a "transient" ? On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: > > That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been > 14.1 on the last several flights. > > The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the > alternator was as well. It *looks* new. > > > Okay, it sounds like this alternator > has no known track record. > > [image: Emacs!] > > I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your > data plot and it appears that alternator > OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator > OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a > LOT of on/off transients. > > Does this alternator have a built in > regulator or external regulator? > If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator > is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, > you need to put a voltmeter on the > Field terminal during a flight to > see if the transient is upstream > (in the regulator or associate > wiring) or downstream (in the > alternator). > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:00 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Operating is 14.1, not operating is about 12.7. Please see the link below which I should have sent to start with. I find it strange the way the voltage slowly drops rather than a sharp on/off drop. Maybe I'll try the switch to see what that looks like on the graph. I will place a voltmeter on the field line next flight. https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/3309601/fa4df24a-e512-4297-bf73-2a797c6ab36b On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 09:05 Ken Ryan wrote: > Bob, what is a "transient" ? > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >> >> That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been >> 14.1 on the last several flights. >> >> The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >> alternator was as well. It *looks* new. >> >> >> >> Okay, it sounds like this alternator >> has no known track record. >> >> [image: Emacs!] >> >> I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your >> data plot and it appears that alternator >> OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator >> OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a >> LOT of on/off transients. >> >> Does this alternator have a built in >> regulator or external regulator? >> If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator >> is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, >> you need to put a voltmeter on the >> Field terminal during a flight to >> see if the transient is upstream >> (in the regulator or associate >> wiring) or downstream (in the >> alternator). >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:23 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Ford style external regulator wired as per AEC. On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 09:14 Sebastien wrote: > Operating is 14.1, not operating is about 12.7. Please see the link below > which I should have sent to start with. I find it strange the way the > voltage slowly drops rather than a sharp on/off drop. Maybe I'll try the > switch to see what that looks like on the graph. > > I will place a voltmeter on the field line next flight. > > > https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/3309601/fa4df24a-e512-4297-bf73-2a797c6ab36b > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 09:05 Ken Ryan wrote: > >> Bob, what is a "transient" ? >> >> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >>> >>> That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has >>> been 14.1 on the last several flights. >>> >>> The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >>> alternator was as well. It *looks* new. >>> >>> >>> >>> Okay, it sounds like this alternator >>> has no known track record. >>> >>> [image: Emacs!] >>> >>> I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your >>> data plot and it appears that alternator >>> OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator >>> OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a >>> LOT of on/off transients. >>> >>> Does this alternator have a built in >>> regulator or external regulator? >>> If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator >>> is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, >>> you need to put a voltmeter on the >>> Field terminal during a flight to >>> see if the transient is upstream >>> (in the regulator or associate >>> wiring) or downstream (in the >>> alternator). >>> >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line From: Charlie England adjective 1. 1. lasting only for a short time; impermanent. "a transient cold spell" * noun 1. 1. a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time. 2. 2. _*a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.*_ On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > Bob, what is a "transient" ? > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > wrote: > > At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >> That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage >> has been 14.1 on the last several flights. >> >> The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >> alternator was as well. It /looks/ new. > > > Okay, it sounds like this alternator > has no known track record. > > Emacs! > > I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your > data plot and it appears that alternator > OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator > OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a > LOT of on/off transients. > > Does this alternator have a built in > regulator or external regulator? > If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator > is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, > you need to put a voltmeter on the > Field terminal during a flight to > see if the transient is upstream > (in the regulator or associate > wiring) or downstream (in the > alternator). > > > Bob . . . > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:56 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition. On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England wrote: > adjective > > 1. 1. > lasting only for a short time; impermanent. > "a transient cold spell" > - > > > noun > > 1. 1. > a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time. > 2. 2. > *a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.* > > > On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > Bob, what is a "transient" ? > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >> >> That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been >> 14.1 on the last several flights. >> >> The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >> alternator was as well. It *looks* new. >> >> >> >> Okay, it sounds like this alternator >> has no known track record. >> >> [image: Emacs!] >> >> I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your >> data plot and it appears that alternator >> OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator >> OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a >> LOT of on/off transients. >> >> Does this alternator have a built in >> regulator or external regulator? >> If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator >> is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, >> you need to put a voltmeter on the >> Field terminal during a flight to >> see if the transient is upstream >> (in the regulator or associate >> wiring) or downstream (in the >> alternator). >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-949200549652384023_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:37 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Hi Ken, I highlighted & underlined what I thought was Bob's meaning when I read it; the 2nd noun definition. Perhaps the highlight/underline didn't show up in your email client. If a signal (or power level) is switching on/off rapidly, it's a 'transient' (short term event). On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:22 PM Ken Ryan wrote: > Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition. > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England > wrote: > >> adjective >> >> 1. 1. >> lasting only for a short time; impermanent. >> "a transient cold spell" >> - >> >> >> noun >> >> 1. 1. >> a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time. >> 2. 2. >> *a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.* >> >> >> >> >> On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: >> >> Bob, what is a "transient" ? >> >> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >>> >>> That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has >>> been 14.1 on the last several flights. >>> >>> The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >>> alternator was as well. It *looks* new. >>> >>> >>> >>> Okay, it sounds like this alternator >>> has no known track record. >>> >>> [image: Emacs!] >>> >>> I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your >>> data plot and it appears that alternator >>> OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator >>> OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a >>> LOT of on/off transients. >>> >>> Does this alternator have a built in >>> regulator or external regulator? >>> If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator >>> is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, >>> you need to put a voltmeter on the >>> Field terminal during a flight to >>> see if the transient is upstream >>> (in the regulator or associate >>> wiring) or downstream (in the >>> alternator). >>> >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_263918708704238526_m_-949200549652384023_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:07 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Thanks Charlie. I think I understand now what Bob is saying. On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 12:02 PM Charlie England wrote: > Hi Ken, > > I highlighted & underlined what I thought was Bob's meaning when I read > it; the 2nd noun definition. Perhaps the highlight/underline didn't show up > in your email client. > > If a signal (or power level) is switching on/off rapidly, it's a > 'transient' (short term event). > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:22 PM Ken Ryan wrote: > >> Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition. >> >> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England >> wrote: >> >>> adjective >>> >>> 1. 1. >>> lasting only for a short time; impermanent. >>> "a transient cold spell" >>> - 949200549652384023lr_dct_sf_subsen" >>> id="gmail-m_263918708704238526gmail-m_-949200549652384023_hAcqXbWIObmF9PwP8JOsMA21" >>> style="display:list-item;list-style-type:disc;font-size:xx-small;margin-left:25px;padding-top:5px"> >>> >>> >>> >>> noun > > 1. 1. > a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time. > 2. 2. > *a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.* > > > On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > Bob, what is a "transient" ? > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: >> >> That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been >> 14.1 on the last several flights. >> >> The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the >> alternator was as well. It *looks* new. >> >> >> >> Okay, it sounds like this alternator >> has no known track record. >> >> [image: Emacs!] >> >> I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your >> data plot and it appears that alternator >> OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator >> OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a >> LOT of on/off transients. >> >> Does this alternator have a built in >> regulator or external regulator? >> If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator >> is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, >> you need to put a voltmeter on the >> Field terminal during a flight to >> see if the transient is upstream >> (in the regulator or associate >> wiring) or downstream (in the >> alternator). >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_1840038890319382137_m_263918708704238526_m_-949200549652384023_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:07 PM PST US From: Alec Myers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [OT] IFR-certified GPS Suggestions I=99m fond of the Avidyne IFD series > On Jul 13, 2019, at 08:05, Art Zemon wrote: > > This is somewhat off-topic but I figure y'all know a lot about airplanes s o you might have opinions about avionics, too. > > I reserved space in my panel for a Garmin 430 WAAS or a Garmin 650. Now th at Oshkosh is upon us, perhaps I can save a few pennies on an IFR-certified G PS that will fit in that hole. It doesn=99t have to be a Garmin; that i s just the size hole that I cut when I did the rest of the panel. > > What suggestions do you have, both for equipment and vendor? > > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. Deut. 10:19 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:12 PM PST US From: Michael Burbidge Subject: AeroElectric-List: Updated Z-12 available yet Hi, I=92ve read on the archives that Bob was working on an updated Z-12 archite cture, that included some of the features of the Z-13 architecture. Is ther e a final version available? Thanks, Michael- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:52 PM PST US From: "r.r.hall@cox.net r.r.hall@cox.net" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line I don't know if it is significant but it seemed to be offline for longer periods each time during the flight. Going by the download you linked to. > On July 13, 2019 at 3:16 PM Ken Ryan wrote: > > Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition. > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England < ceengland7@gmail.com mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > adjective > > > > 1. 1. > > lasting only for a short time; impermanent. > > "a transient cold spell" > > o > > > > > > noun > > > > 1. 1. > > a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time. > > 2. 2. > > a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency. > > > > > > > > On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > > > > > > Bob, what is a "transient" ? > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights. > > > > > > > > > > The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it sounds like this alternator > > > > has no known track record. > > > > > > > > [Emacs!] > > > > > > > > I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your > > > > data plot and it appears that alternator > > > > OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator > > > > OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a > > > > LOT of on/off transients. > > > > > > > > Does this alternator have a built in > > > > regulator or external regulator? > > > > If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator > > > > is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, > > > > you need to put a voltmeter on the > > > > Field terminal during a flight to > > > > see if the transient is upstream > > > > (in the regulator or associate > > > > wiring) or downstream (in the > > > > alternator). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon > > Virus-free. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:52 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line Yes I found that strange. Each cycle was longer both in duration and in time before the next one. Probably random though. On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 19:44 r.r.hall@cox.net r.r.hall@cox.net < r.r.hall@cox.net> wrote: > I don't know if it is significant but it seemed to be offline for longer > periods each time during the flight. Going by the download you linked to. > > > On July 13, 2019 at 3:16 PM Ken Ryan wrote: > > Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition. > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England < ceengland7@gmail.com> > wrote: > > adjective > > > 1. 1. > lasting only for a short time; impermanent. > "a transient cold spell" > - > > > noun > > > 1. 1. > a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time. > 2. 2. > *a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.* > > > On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > Bob, what is a "transient" ? > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote: > > That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been > 14.1 on the last several flights. > > The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the > alternator was as well. It *looks* new. > > > Okay, it sounds like this alternator > has no known track record. > > [image: Emacs!] > > I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your > data plot and it appears that alternator > OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator > OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a > LOT of on/off transients. > > Does this alternator have a built in > regulator or external regulator? > If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator > is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator, > you need to put a voltmeter on the > Field terminal during a flight to > see if the transient is upstream > (in the regulator or associate > wiring) or downstream (in the > alternator). > > > Bob . . . > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.