Today's Message Index:
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1. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic neede (Charlie England)
2. 11:21 AM - Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic needed (folowup) (Charlie England)
3. 11:30 AM - Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic neede (Eric M. Jones)
4. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic neede (Charlie England)
5. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic neede (Dick Tasker)
6. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic neede (Charlie England)
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring |
schematic neede
On 7/17/2019 11:16 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> I have a bunch and have posted some over the years. Here is the Trim box.
>
> Eric
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
Hi Eric,
Sorry to be so long in replying. Thanks for the link, and I really like
the conversion to true servo action in your device. But what I was
really looking for was *internal* schematics for the Ray Allen devices.
One of Bob's drawings has the 'guts' of the servo shown, but no joy on
the other products.
I'll reply to my earlier post to detail what I found during troubleshooting.
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic |
needed (folowup)
On 7/16/2019 12:00 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> Anyone out there with an actual schematic of the Ray Allen relay
> decks, switches, stick switches, etc? Their on-line 'diagrams' are
> typical consumer-facing 'white boxes' for each component, showing
> nothing of how the contacts in the device are tied to the various
> colored wires. I can spend a day or two puzzling out how the internals
> are connected, but I'd love to avoid the waste of time.
>
> The guys at RA were less than worthless, telling me that it would be
> 'dangerous' to show the consumer (the people actually installing their
> stuff) what was goingon inside each box on their diagrams. Gotta say,
> if there were an alternative, I'd just replace the stuff so I wouldn't
> have to deal with them.
>
> Problem: previous owner(s) have panel mounted rockers & indicators for
> pitch/roll, and a stick grip with the 4 separate buttons for
> pitch/roll. The rockers work. The stick buttons will make the relays
> click, but don't control the trim motors.
>
> As I said, I can puzzle it out, but I'd like to *start* with
> schematics of the devices, instead of having to create them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
Well, I found my 'issue', so I thought I'd detail it here for posterity.
Here's the 1st sentence from the Ray Allen website description of their
RS2 rocker switch:
*This switch is designed for use with Ray Allen trim systems. It has a
very positive snap action in two directions and returns to a _center
off_ position. *(underline added by me)
**Notethat thisis NOT correct. What they *don't mention* in the
description is that the housing actually contains a pair of switches,
and when the switch is in what they deceptively call the 'center off'
position, it actually shorts the pair of wires that would normally feed
the trim motor. The legitimate reason is to stop motor 'coasting', but
failure to document that they did this, in both the description and in
their wiring diagrams, leaves one open to wasting a half day or more
just sorting out what's happening.
One of RA's drawings shows a pair of diodes in series with the RS2
switch wires, but no explanation of why they're there. They're there to
keep the switch from powering *both* relays in the RA relay block, if a
2nd control is installed, as with stick-mounted pushbuttons or
hat-switch. That's what was happening with my installation. The builder
failed to install the diodes, and when a stick trim button was pressed,
the relay block would click but the servo wouldn't move. Both relays
inside the relay block were activating (undetectable by 'ear'), which
meant that the motor saw no voltage differential.
I did have a couple of very pointed discussions with the RA folks. The
1st (before I found my problem) was to request devices' internal
schematics, and the response was that it would be 'dangerous' (for RA,
obviously) to give end-users 'too much information'. My 2nd, after
discovering the RS2 switch issue, was with a different person, who did
apologize and said that they had plans to update the website and their
docs. When I asked the 2nd guy to tell me, tech-to-tech (I've had a
couple of prior lives as an electronics tech), what 'center off' meant,
I got what can be described as a 'pregnant pause'.
Hey Bob, I know the AEC book is primarily about power distribution, but
maybe you should beat us over the head at the beginning and end of every
chapter, reminding us to *document* our work. The builder of my a/c had
a printed copy of AEC in the boxes of paperwork, and did have a few
hand-drawn variations on some of the Z-figures, but apparently failed to
document anything beyond power feeds.
Charlie
**
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring schematic |
neede
Sorry Charlie...the Trim box is on the last page. I couldn't find my file of the
trim box alone.
Attached is my file of the trim box and the bar graph. I have some others if I
can find them...I had all my CAD files on a 32 GB flash drive for safety and ran
over it with my office chair. Nothing was recoverable so I am checking old
HDs. and backups.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490468#490468
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rac_trim_box_and_bar_graph_166.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring |
schematic neede
On 7/21/2019 1:28 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> Sorry Charlie...the Trim box is on the last page. I couldn't find my file of
the trim box alone.
>
> Attached is my file of the trim box and the bar graph. I have some others if
I can find them...I had all my CAD files on a 32 GB flash drive for safety and
ran over it with my office chair. Nothing was recoverable so I am checking old
HDs. and backups.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
Thanks, Eric. Impressive what you get for the money at RA, isn't it? At
$119.00 for that display, it works out to about $109.00 for the little
box & the label set, after buying the display, pc board, & misc
components. I started playing with LM3914s about 40 years ago, before
you could buy the 10 segment displays for 50 cents.
Please don't do any more digging just for me; I've got my problem licked.
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring |
schematic neede
Here is what I have for the display module. It is the LM3914 data sheet marked
up with the additional components in the module. The part labeled "sensor" is
the Ray Allen position sensor that works
with the display.
Dick Tasker
Charlie England wrote:
>
> On 7/17/2019 11:16 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> I have a bunch and have posted some over the years. Here is the Trim box.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones(at)charter.net
>>
> Hi Eric,
>
> Sorry to be so long in replying. Thanks for the link, and I really like the conversion
to true servo action in your device. But what I was really looking for
was *internal* schematics for the Ray
> Allen devices. One of Bob's drawings has the 'guts' of the servo shown, but no
joy on the other products.
>
> I'll reply to my earlier post to detail what I found during troubleshooting.
>
> Charlie
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen trim servo/control: actual wiring |
schematic neede
Thanks, Dick; got it. My problem was actually the RS2 rocker switch.
Charlie
On 7/21/2019 7:43 PM, Dick Tasker wrote:
> Here is what I have for the display module. It is the LM3914 data
> sheet marked up with the additional components in the module. The
> part labeled "sensor" is the Ray Allen position sensor that works with
> the display.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Charlie England wrote:
>> <ceengland7@gmail.com>
>>
>> On 7/17/2019 11:16 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>>
>>> Hi Charlie,
>>>
>>> I have a bunch and have posted some over the years. Here is the Trim
>>> box.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Eric M. Jones
>>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>>> (508) 764-2072
>>> emjones(at)charter.net
>>>
>> Hi Eric,
>>
>> Sorry to be so long in replying. Thanks for the link, and I really
>> like the conversion to true servo action in your device. But what I
>> was really looking for was *internal* schematics for the Ray Allen
>> devices. One of Bob's drawings has the 'guts' of the servo shown, but
>> no joy on the other products.
>>
>> I'll reply to my earlier post to detail what I found during
>> troubleshooting.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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