Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Re: Bent EGT Probe Acceptable? (racerjerry)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: TC wire and dsub (racerjerry)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Art Zemon)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Art Zemon)
5. 05:52 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 (RobCaldwell.net)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 (RobCaldwell.net)
7. 07:09 AM - Re: TC wire and dsub (Jan de Jong)
8. 11:46 AM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (skywagon185guy .)
9. 12:13 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Kelly McMullen)
10. 12:16 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Charlie England)
11. 01:40 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Art Zemon)
12. 01:54 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Chuck Ryan)
13. 02:54 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Charlie England)
14. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 (RobCaldwell.net)
16. 08:11 PM - Lycoming POH (Paul Millner)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bent EGT Probe Acceptable? |
My guess is that there should be no problems. The temperature sensing thermocouple
element is actually the welded junction of the two dissimilar metals that
make up the thermocouple. Disturbing the stainless protective housing, especially
outside the hose clamp area, SHOULD have no effect.
Jerry King
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490932#490932
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: TC wire and dsub |
I might be more concerned when using Type J (Iron / Constantan) thermocouples.
You sure would want to make every effort to keep any moisture out and away from
the iron.
Jerry King
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490933#490933
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
Jared,
Yes, indeed; I did appreciate that. I would have replaced flaky connectors,
too.
I have an MGL system so the only connectors in the EGT circuit are the
screw terminals on the RDAC <http://www.mglavionics.co.za/rdacxf.html>.
-- Art Z.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:46 PM Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com> wrote:
> Art, you seem like the kind of fellow who would appreciate a lengthy blog
> post:
>
> http://bearhawkblue.com/replacing-the-oem-dynon-thermocouple-connectors-with-omega-connectors/
>
> On August 15, 2019 23:05:01 Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> One of my four EGT probes is flaky. Sometimes it works. Most of the time
>> it reads zero (too low to register). I don't actually use the EGT for
>> anything so I'm not very excited about spending money to fix it. But it
>> annoys me to see three nice green bars and one black space where there
>> should be a green bar.
>>
>> Are these things repairable?
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
>> 10:19
>>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
Good thought. I can easily try that since I have several unused channels.
-- Art Z.
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 8:03 PM fidot <web@79ft.net> wrote:
>
> Art,
>
> For what it's worth, when I had a similar problem on my EI Engine Monitor,
> it turned out to be the bad input channel rather than probe. I'd start with
> trying to move it to another channel (ie, swap two probes) and seeing what
> happens... unless you've already done that...
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 |
Sorry to disturb the flow of this thread. However, I have tried
repeatedly to unsubscribe from this list, followed the instructions to
the letter, even contacted the admin with no success. If anyone can
give me a hand I would be greatly appreciative.
Please unsubscribe: rob@robcaldwell.net <mailto:rob@robcaldwell.net>
Thank you!
> On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:30 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either
of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C
hapter 19-08-17&Archive=AeroElectric
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch
apter 19-08-17&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/17/19: 5
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:13 AM - Re: Revmaster PM alternators (user9253)
> 2. 06:34 AM - Bent EGT Probe Acceptable? (jdubner)
> 3. 09:02 AM - Re: Revmaster PM alternators (dj_theis)
> 4. 06:39 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Art Zemon)
> 5. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: Dual Alternator "Failure" - SOLVED (Art
Zemon)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:13:46 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Revmaster PM alternators
> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>
>
> The purpose of a fuse in the alternator output circuit is to protect
the battery
> from short circuits. Alternator output is self current limiting. The
quantity
> of electrons flowing is limited by the ability of the magnets to push
them.
> There is no inductive voltage spike when a load is removed from the
alternator.
> The voltage will go up because the electrons being pushed by magnets
have
> no where to go. But the voltage is not induced by a collapsing
magnetic field.
> Alternator windings can fry due to overheating caused by inadequate
cooling or
> due to prolonged high current output. Electrically speaking, there
are two
> separate alternators. But both are contained in one physical
enclosure. Operating
> both alternators simultaneously at full output generates lots of heat
which
> could fry windings. The solution is to redesign the alternator with
larger
> wires and/or better cooling. Or limit the load. Or limit the total
output
> current by operating only one alternator at a time.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490918#490918
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:34:37 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bent EGT Probe Acceptable?
> From: "jdubner" <jdubner@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Would it be permissible to bend an EGT probe as in the attached image
and still
> receive good service from it? This is for avoiding interference with
the cowl
> and other obstructions in a Long-EZ installation.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> --------
> RV-8A
> Independence, OR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490919#490919
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bent_egt_probe_example_543.jpg
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:02:28 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Revmaster PM alternators
> From: "dj_theis" <djtheis58@gmail.com>
>
>
> Thanks Joe,
>
> The purpose of a fuse in the alternator output circuit is to protect
the battery
> from short circuits. Alternator output is self current limiting.
>
> I appreciate your feedback. The short circuit protection meant to
protect the
> battery was not something I had considered as the design intent. I
Understand
> the fixed current model of the PM alternator so what a damaged winding
suggests
> is a weak or less than robust design, as you imply.
>
> If you noticed, the ignition circuits are part of the same flywheel
assembly and
> in neither of these cases did the ignition fail. This is evidence to
me that
> the self destructive heat generated by a stator winding was not high
enough
> to propagate the damage beyond the source of the heat (the physical
relationship
> is as the drawing shows, the ignition coils separate the alternator
windings).
>
> Now that I think of it, the 450 hour plane did have a previous
incident where the
> ignition coil failed and the smell he sensed when the alternator
failed led
> him to expect one of the ignition coils had failed again. Note, with
none of
> these failures did the engine stop running. The ignition coils are
redundant.
> One feeds the upper ignition and one feeds the lower.
>
> I doubt I can obtain any forensic data on the failed systems but I
will give it
> a shot and see what might be learned.
>
> My goal is to modify (improve) my engine charging system to avoid any
of these
> failures.
>
> Thanks again for your feedback Joe. It helps a lot.
>
> Dan Theis
> Sonex 1362R[/quote]
>
> --------
> Scratch building Sonex #1362
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490920#490920
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:39:43 PM PST US
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flaky EGT Probe
>
> Bob,
>
> The Lycoming operating manual says:
>
> LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or
less,
>> without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)
>> <snip>
>> Fuel Injected Engines.
>> (1) Slowly move mixture control from =9CFull Rich=9D position
> toward lean
>> position.
>> (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of
power
>> may or may not be accompanied by roughness.
>> (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.
>
>
> I tried this method and compared the results with using the EGT (also
per
> Lycoming's operating manual). I got the same fuel flow both ways.
>
> I learned the manual method in airplanes that lacked an EGT probe on
each
> cylinder. It's quick and doesn't require me to interrupt my scan.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:18 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Hi Art
>> So how is it that you dont use your EGT? To me it is a prized tool in
the
>> engine management arsenal!
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 05:03, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> One of my four EGT probes is flaky. Sometimes it works. Most of the
time
>>> it reads zero (too low to register). I don't actually use the EGT
for
>>> anything so I'm not very excited about spending money to fix it. But
it
>>> annoys me to see three nice green bars and one black space where
there
>>> should be a green bar.
>>>
>>> Are these things repairable?
>>>
>>> -- Art Z.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>
>>> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt.
*Deut.
>>> 10:19
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best...
>> Bob Verwey
>> 082 331 2727
>>
>>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
10:19
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:45:09 PM PST US
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Alternator "Failure" - SOLVED
>
> You're so right, Joe.
>
> And for anyone interested, here is the full write-up on my blog:
> https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2019/08/17/dual-alternator-failure/
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 8:07 PM user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The above situation reinforces the recommendation to have a separate
fuse
>> for each and every load, no matter how small or insignificant. Fuse
are
>> inexpensive.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
10:19
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 |
Sorry to disturb the flow of this thread. However, I have tried
repeatedly to unsubscribe from this list, followed the instructions to
the letter, even contacted the admin with no success. If anyone can
give me a hand I would be greatly appreciative.
Please unsubscribe: rob@robcaldwell.net <mailto:rob@robcaldwell.net>
Thank you!
> On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:30 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either
of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C
hapter 19-08-17&Archive=AeroElectric
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch
apter 19-08-17&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/17/19: 5
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:13 AM - Re: Revmaster PM alternators (user9253)
> 2. 06:34 AM - Bent EGT Probe Acceptable? (jdubner)
> 3. 09:02 AM - Re: Revmaster PM alternators (dj_theis)
> 4. 06:39 PM - Re: Flaky EGT Probe (Art Zemon)
> 5. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: Dual Alternator "Failure" - SOLVED (Art
Zemon)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:13:46 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Revmaster PM alternators
> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>
>
> The purpose of a fuse in the alternator output circuit is to protect
the battery
> from short circuits. Alternator output is self current limiting. The
quantity
> of electrons flowing is limited by the ability of the magnets to push
them.
> There is no inductive voltage spike when a load is removed from the
alternator.
> The voltage will go up because the electrons being pushed by magnets
have
> no where to go. But the voltage is not induced by a collapsing
magnetic field.
> Alternator windings can fry due to overheating caused by inadequate
cooling or
> due to prolonged high current output. Electrically speaking, there
are two
> separate alternators. But both are contained in one physical
enclosure. Operating
> both alternators simultaneously at full output generates lots of heat
which
> could fry windings. The solution is to redesign the alternator with
larger
> wires and/or better cooling. Or limit the load. Or limit the total
output
> current by operating only one alternator at a time.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490918#490918
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:34:37 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bent EGT Probe Acceptable?
> From: "jdubner" <jdubner@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Would it be permissible to bend an EGT probe as in the attached image
and still
> receive good service from it? This is for avoiding interference with
the cowl
> and other obstructions in a Long-EZ installation.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> --------
> RV-8A
> Independence, OR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490919#490919
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bent_egt_probe_example_543.jpg
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:02:28 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Revmaster PM alternators
> From: "dj_theis" <djtheis58@gmail.com>
>
>
> Thanks Joe,
>
> The purpose of a fuse in the alternator output circuit is to protect
the battery
> from short circuits. Alternator output is self current limiting.
>
> I appreciate your feedback. The short circuit protection meant to
protect the
> battery was not something I had considered as the design intent. I
Understand
> the fixed current model of the PM alternator so what a damaged winding
suggests
> is a weak or less than robust design, as you imply.
>
> If you noticed, the ignition circuits are part of the same flywheel
assembly and
> in neither of these cases did the ignition fail. This is evidence to
me that
> the self destructive heat generated by a stator winding was not high
enough
> to propagate the damage beyond the source of the heat (the physical
relationship
> is as the drawing shows, the ignition coils separate the alternator
windings).
>
> Now that I think of it, the 450 hour plane did have a previous
incident where the
> ignition coil failed and the smell he sensed when the alternator
failed led
> him to expect one of the ignition coils had failed again. Note, with
none of
> these failures did the engine stop running. The ignition coils are
redundant.
> One feeds the upper ignition and one feeds the lower.
>
> I doubt I can obtain any forensic data on the failed systems but I
will give it
> a shot and see what might be learned.
>
> My goal is to modify (improve) my engine charging system to avoid any
of these
> failures.
>
> Thanks again for your feedback Joe. It helps a lot.
>
> Dan Theis
> Sonex 1362R[/quote]
>
> --------
> Scratch building Sonex #1362
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490920#490920
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:39:43 PM PST US
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flaky EGT Probe
>
> Bob,
>
> The Lycoming operating manual says:
>
> LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or
less,
>> without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)
>> <snip>
>> Fuel Injected Engines.
>> (1) Slowly move mixture control from =9CFull Rich=9D position
> toward lean
>> position.
>> (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of
power
>> may or may not be accompanied by roughness.
>> (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.
>
>
> I tried this method and compared the results with using the EGT (also
per
> Lycoming's operating manual). I got the same fuel flow both ways.
>
> I learned the manual method in airplanes that lacked an EGT probe on
each
> cylinder. It's quick and doesn't require me to interrupt my scan.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:18 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Hi Art
>> So how is it that you dont use your EGT? To me it is a prized tool in
the
>> engine management arsenal!
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 05:03, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> One of my four EGT probes is flaky. Sometimes it works. Most of the
time
>>> it reads zero (too low to register). I don't actually use the EGT
for
>>> anything so I'm not very excited about spending money to fix it. But
it
>>> annoys me to see three nice green bars and one black space where
there
>>> should be a green bar.
>>>
>>> Are these things repairable?
>>>
>>> -- Art Z.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>
>>> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt.
*Deut.
>>> 10:19
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best...
>> Bob Verwey
>> 082 331 2727
>>
>>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
10:19
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:45:09 PM PST US
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Alternator "Failure" - SOLVED
>
> You're so right, Joe.
>
> And for anyone interested, here is the full write-up on my blog:
> https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2019/08/17/dual-alternator-failure/
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 8:07 PM user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The above situation reinforces the recommendation to have a separate
fuse
>> for each and every load, no matter how small or insignificant. Fuse
are
>> inexpensive.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
10:19
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: TC wire and dsub |
Thanks,
Jan de Jong
On 16-8-2019 04:25, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 08:36 AM 8/15/2019, you wrote:
>> <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
>>
>> Theoretically, extending thermocouple wires using a dsub connector
>> (with, say, gold over bronze contacts) should be ok provided any
>> temperature gradient across the connector is ignored. The
>> thermocouple voltages across the connector cancel out to 0.
>>
>> In practice there could be a problem with corrosion of a thermocouple
>> wire where it meets gold.
>
> Gold is electrolytically inert. I think
> most thermocouple alloys are similarly
> resistant to oxidation. I've run
> TC wires though d-subs for decades with
> good success . . . with one caveat:
>
> My tasks were temporary instrumentation
> installations so I've not personally
> observed/demonstrated longevity in
> field service. But given the low
> reactivity of the alloys involved,
> I'm pretty confident that they'll
> last a long time.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
Art,
About the leaning steps....
I would suggest one additional comment/step:
As one pulls the Mixture knob for leaning, when you get near peak EGT, one
should develop a habit of "zipping" thru peak and getting on the lean side
as quickly as possible.
When on the rich side and coming up on Peak EGT, there is a region most
prone to cause engine problems; pinging, detonation, etc. depending on
power setting, atmospherics, etc.. That region should be not lingered in.
Getting into the lean side does a nice job of cooling and cruise economy.
After some practice in noting where the mixture knob sits in lean mode, one
can do a fast "pull" from rich to lean, and then use EGT or CHT to set the
final mixture for lean cruise.
On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 6:45 PM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> The Lycoming operating manual says:
>
> LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or less,
>> without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)
>> <snip>
>> Fuel Injected Engines.
>> (1) Slowly move mixture control from =9CFull Rich=9D positio
n toward lean
>> position.
>> (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of power
>> may or may not be accompanied by roughness.
>> (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.
>
>
> I tried this method and compared the results with using the EGT (also per
> Lycoming's operating manual). I got the same fuel flow both ways.
>
> I learned the manual method in airplanes that lacked an EGT probe on each
> cylinder. It's quick and doesn't require me to interrupt my scan.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:18 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Art
>> So how is it that you dont use your EGT? To me it is a prized tool in th
e
>> engine management arsenal!
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 05:03, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> One of my four EGT probes is flaky. Sometimes it works. Most of the tim
e
>>> it reads zero (too low to register). I don't actually use the EGT for
>>> anything so I'm not very excited about spending money to fix it. But it
>>> annoys me to see three nice green bars and one black space where there
>>> should be a green bar.
>>>
>>> Are these things repairable?
>>>
>>> -- Art Z.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>
>>> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
>>> 10:19
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best...
>> Bob Verwey
>> 082 331 2727
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
> 10:19
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
Whether going slow or fast through peak area is highly dependent on the
power setting in use at the time. If 65% or less, it is immaterial
whether you go slow or fast, you won't hurt anything. Generally more
desirable to establish peak at 65%, then adjust to final power you
desire with throttle.
Otherwise, as you say, establish a known fuel flow that is assured to be
LOP for the power setting, go straight from rich to that setting, and
then find peak from the lean side, knowing the first to reach peak will
be the richest cylinder and the rest are leaner.
On 8/18/2019 11:44 AM, skywagon185guy . wrote:
> Art,
> About the leaning steps....
> I would suggest one additional comment/step:
> As one pulls the Mixture knob for leaning, when you get near peak EGT,
> one should develop a habit of "zipping" thru peak and getting on the
> lean side as quickly as possible.
> When on the rich side and coming up on Peak EGT, there is a region most
> prone to cause engine problems; pinging, detonation, etc. depending on
> power setting, atmospherics, etc.. That region should be not lingered
> in. Getting into the lean side does a nice job of cooling and cruise
> economy. After some practice in noting where the mixture knob sits in
> lean mode, one can do a fast "pull" from rich to lean, and then use EGT
> or CHT to set the final mixture for lean cruise.
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 6:45 PM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name
> <mailto:art@zemon.name>> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> The Lycoming operating manual says:
>
> LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power
> or less, without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)
> <snip>
> Fuel Injected Engines.
> (1) Slowly move mixture control from Full Rich position toward
> lean position.
> (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss
> of power may or may not beaccompanied by roughness.
> (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.
>
>
> I tried this method and compared the results with using the EGT
> (also per Lycoming's operating manual). I got the same fuel flow
> both ways.
>
> I learned the manual method in airplanes that lacked an EGT probe on
> each cylinder. It's quick and doesn't require me to interrupt my scan.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:18 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com
> <mailto:bob.verwey@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Art
> So how is it that you dont use your EGT? To me it is a prized
> tool in the engine management arsenal!
>
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 05:03, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name
> <mailto:art@zemon.name>> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> One of my four EGT probes is flaky. Sometimes it works. Most
> of the time it reads zero (too low to register). I don't
> actually use the EGT for anything so I'm not very excited
> about spending money to fix it. But it annoys me to see
> three nice green bars and one black space where there should
> be a green bar.
>
> Are these things repairable?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in
> Egypt. /Deut. 10:19
>
>
>
> --
> Best...
> Bob Verwey
> 082 331 2727
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt.
> /Deut. 10:19
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
That's been recommended by some of the 'big names', and makes some sense.
But my recent experience with a new-to-me RV-6 with a ~15+ year old Dynon
engine monitor is that a 'quick pull' seems to confuse its lean function,
and it can't seem to detect lean of peak. That also makes some intuitive
sense, since EGT never really 'peaks'. Anyone have this experience with
later engine monitors?
Art, if the probe does turn out to be bad, do some ebay deep diving. If
you're willing to wait a few weeks (and you're not hung up on "buy
'Murcun", there are some good deals on Chinese probes.
Charlie
On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 1:51 PM skywagon185guy . <skywagon185@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Art,
> About the leaning steps....
> I would suggest one additional comment/step:
> As one pulls the Mixture knob for leaning, when you get near peak EGT, on
e
> should develop a habit of "zipping" thru peak and getting on the lean sid
e
> as quickly as possible.
> When on the rich side and coming up on Peak EGT, there is a region most
> prone to cause engine problems; pinging, detonation, etc. depending on
> power setting, atmospherics, etc.. That region should be not lingered in
.
> Getting into the lean side does a nice job of cooling and cruise economy.
> After some practice in noting where the mixture knob sits in lean mode, o
ne
> can do a fast "pull" from rich to lean, and then use EGT or CHT to set th
e
> final mixture for lean cruise.
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 6:45 PM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> The Lycoming operating manual says:
>>
>> LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or less,
>>> without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)
>>> <snip>
>>> Fuel Injected Engines.
>>> (1) Slowly move mixture control from =9CFull Rich=9D positi
on toward lean
>>> position.
>>> (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of power
>>> may or may not be accompanied by roughness.
>>> (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.
>>
>>
>> I tried this method and compared the results with using the EGT (also pe
r
>> Lycoming's operating manual). I got the same fuel flow both ways.
>>
>> I learned the manual method in airplanes that lacked an EGT probe on eac
h
>> cylinder. It's quick and doesn't require me to interrupt my scan.
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:18 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Art
>>> So how is it that you dont use your EGT? To me it is a prized tool in
>>> the engine management arsenal!
>>>
>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 05:03, Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> One of my four EGT probes is flaky. Sometimes it works. Most of the
>>>> time it reads zero (too low to register). I don't actually use the EGT
for
>>>> anything so I'm not very excited about spending money to fix it. But i
t
>>>> annoys me to see three nice green bars and one black space where there
>>>> should be a green bar.
>>>>
>>>> Are these things repairable?
>>>>
>>>> -- Art Z.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>>
>>>> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
>>>> 10:19
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best...
>>> Bob Verwey
>>> 082 331 2727
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
>> 10:19
>>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
Gents,
I encourage both of you to read the Lycoming operator's manual for the
O-360 and IO-360. You can download it here:
https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/O-HO-IO-HIO-AIO%20%26%20TIO-360%20Oper%20Manual%2060297-12.pdf
The document is quite specific about how to lean the engine and when
running LOP is permissible and how much hotter than peak.
Executive summary:
- 75% power or greater, run at peak EGT
- less than 75% power, run up to 150 degrees F lean of peak
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 2:28 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Whether going slow or fast through peak area is highly dependent on the
> power setting in use at the time. If 65% or less, it is immaterial
> whether you go slow or fast, you won't hurt anything. Generally more
> desirable to establish peak at 65%, then adjust to final power you
> desire with throttle.
> Otherwise, as you say, establish a known fuel flow that is assured to be
> LOP for the power setting, go straight from rich to that setting, and
> then find peak from the lean side, knowing the first to reach peak will
> be the richest cylinder and the rest are leaner.
>
> On 8/18/2019 11:44 AM, skywagon185guy . wrote:
> > Art,
> > About the leaning steps....
> > I would suggest one additional comment/step:
> > As one pulls the Mixture knob for leaning, when you get near peak EGT,
> > one should develop a habit of "zipping" thru peak and getting on the
> > lean side as quickly as possible.
> > When on the rich side and coming up on Peak EGT, there is a region most
> > prone to cause engine problems; pinging, detonation, etc. depending on
> > power setting, atmospherics, etc.. That region should be not lingered
> > in. Getting into the lean side does a nice job of cooling and cruise
> > economy. After some practice in noting where the mixture knob sits in
> > lean mode, one can do a fast "pull" from rich to lean, and then use EGT
> > or CHT to set the final mixture for lean cruise.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 2:45 PM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Gents,
>
> I encourage both of you to read the Lycoming operator's manual for the
> O-360 and IO-360. You can download it here:
> https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/O-HO-IO-HIO-AIO%20%26%20TIO-360%20Oper%20Manual%2060297-12.pdf
> The document is quite specific about how to lean the engine and when
> running LOP is permissible and how much hotter than peak.
>
> Executive summary:
>
> - 75% power or greater, run at peak EGT
> - less than 75% power, run up to 150 degrees F lean of peak
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 2:28 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> wrote:
>
>> kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> Whether going slow or fast through peak area is highly dependent on the
>> power setting in use at the time. If 65% or less, it is immaterial
>> whether you go slow or fast, you won't hurt anything. Generally more
>> desirable to establish peak at 65%, then adjust to final power you
>> desire with throttle.
>> Otherwise, as you say, establish a known fuel flow that is assured to be
>> LOP for the power setting, go straight from rich to that setting, and
>> then find peak from the lean side, knowing the first to reach peak will
>> be the richest cylinder and the rest are leaner.
>>
>> On 8/18/2019 11:44 AM, skywagon185guy . wrote:
>> > Art,
>> > About the leaning steps....
>> > I would suggest one additional comment/step:
>> > As one pulls the Mixture knob for leaning, when you get near peak EGT,
>> > one should develop a habit of "zipping" thru peak and getting on the
>> > lean side as quickly as possible.
>> > When on the rich side and coming up on Peak EGT, there is a region most
>> > prone to cause engine problems; pinging, detonation, etc. depending on
>> > power setting, atmospherics, etc.. That region should be not lingered
>> > in. Getting into the lean side does a nice job of cooling and cruise
>> > economy. After some practice in noting where the mixture knob sits in
>> > lean mode, one can do a fast "pull" from rich to lean, and then use EGT
>> > or CHT to set the final mixture for lean cruise.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
> 10:19
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaky EGT Probe |
Art, my copy flips that:
[image: image.png]
Operating at or above 75% at peak egt is generally considered to be
hazardous to exhaust valves. Under 75% makes peak operation ok, as
mentioned in the document. The doc doesn't seem to address lean of peak;
not surprising since it's almost 15 years old. IIRC, there are Lyc docs
with later publication dates that hedge a bit on that 75%/peak statement,
but virtually no one operates there, anyway. Almost nothing is lost by
going 20-30 lean of peak, assuming mixture distribution allows it.
Charlie
On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 3:45 PM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Gents,
>
> I encourage both of you to read the Lycoming operator's manual for the
> O-360 and IO-360. You can download it here:
> https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/O-HO-IO-HIO-AIO%20%26%20TIO-360%20Oper%20Manual%2060297-12.pdf
> The document is quite specific about how to lean the engine and when
> running LOP is permissible and how much hotter than peak.
>
> Executive summary:
>
> - 75% power or greater, run at peak EGT
> - less than 75% power, run up to 150 degrees F lean of peak
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 2:28 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> wrote:
>
>> kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> Whether going slow or fast through peak area is highly dependent on the
>> power setting in use at the time. If 65% or less, it is immaterial
>> whether you go slow or fast, you won't hurt anything. Generally more
>> desirable to establish peak at 65%, then adjust to final power you
>> desire with throttle.
>> Otherwise, as you say, establish a known fuel flow that is assured to be
>> LOP for the power setting, go straight from rich to that setting, and
>> then find peak from the lean side, knowing the first to reach peak will
>> be the richest cylinder and the rest are leaner.
>>
>> On 8/18/2019 11:44 AM, skywagon185guy . wrote:
>> > Art,
>> > About the leaning steps....
>> > I would suggest one additional comment/step:
>> > As one pulls the Mixture knob for leaning, when you get near peak EGT,
>> > one should develop a habit of "zipping" thru peak and getting on the
>> > lean side as quickly as possible.
>> > When on the rich side and coming up on Peak EGT, there is a region most
>> > prone to cause engine problems; pinging, detonation, etc. depending on
>> > power setting, atmospherics, etc.. That region should be not lingered
>> > in. Getting into the lean side does a nice job of cooling and cruise
>> > economy. After some practice in noting where the mixture knob sits in
>> > lean mode, one can do a fast "pull" from rich to lean, and then use EGT
>> > or CHT to set the final mixture for lean cruise.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
> 10:19
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 |
At 07:50 AM 8/18/2019, you wrote:
>Sorry to disturb the flow of this thread=85.
>However, I have tried repeatedly to unsubscribe
>from this list, followed the instructions to the
>letter, even contacted the admin with no
>success. If anyone can give me a hand I would be greatly appreciative.
>
>Please unsubscribe: <mailto:rob@robcaldwell.net>rob@robcaldwell.net
When you went to the matronics/subscribe page
and un-checked your participation on this list,
did you subsequently receive a an email
asking for verification of your request . . .
and did you affirm that request?
Bob . . .
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/19 |
Yes Sir, I did all those things. Even checked my spam folder. I will
say the site is quite archaic and difficult to ascertain various
functions. Not intuitive.
> On Aug 18, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 07:50 AM 8/18/2019, you wrote:
>> Sorry to disturb the flow of this thread=C2=85>> . However, I have
tried repeatedly to unsubscribe from this list, followed the
instructions to the letter, even contacted the admin with no success.
If anyone can give me a hand I would be greatly appreciative.
>>
>> Please unsubscribe: rob@robcaldwell.net <mailto:rob@robcaldwell.net>
> When you went to the matronics/subscribe page
> and un-checked your participation on this list,
> did you subsequently receive a an email
> asking for verification of your request . . .
> and did you affirm that request?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Art Zemon wrflyote:
Executive summary:
75% power or greater, run at peak EGT
less than 75% power, run up to 150 degrees F lean of peak
I think that's kind of scrambled, Art... the engine won't run 150 F lean
of peak. What the Lycoming POH refers to is 150 ROP as best power...
Beyond that, running at peak EGT above 65% is not going to have good
results...
The wording of the POH is misleading, unfortunately. For instance,
Lycoming wrote: Maximum Power Cruise (approximately 75% power) Never
lean beyond 150F on rich side of peak EGT unless aircraft operator's
manual shows otherwise.
So, which way is beyond, leaner or richer? What they mean is do not run
leaner than 150 ROP at 75% power or greater. But they do their best to
conceal that information.
If you refer to Lycoming SP700, "There are Experts Everywhere" Lycoming
explains that their engines can run just fine lean of peak. It's just
that Lycoming believes most pilots are too stupid to do so correctly,
and so they'll damage their engines... at least , that's what it says in
SP700.
So the guidance intended, if we can puzzle our way through the byzantine
wording, is that 65% power or less, run anywhere you want, peak is a
good place.
Above 65% power, run RICH enough or LEAN enough to keep CHTs below 380 F.
Paul, Talmudic service publication reader mode
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|