Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Art Zemon)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (user9253)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (user9253)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Charlie England)
5. 06:32 AM - Appareo Stratus ESG ADS-B transponder OSH Special (user9253)
6. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Art Zemon)
7. 07:00 AM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Art Zemon)
8. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 01:50 PM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Ryan Southam)
10. 04:25 PM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (user9253)
11. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Art Zemon)
12. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
I pulled and replaced fuses one at a time until I isolated the circuit that
is generating the noise in my handheld. It is the MGL EFIS, believe it or
not. After identifying the fuse, I started disconnecting individual
devices. The circuit contains two MGL Challenger 10.4 inch screens and the
MGL iBOX (the backend brains box of the system). The screens are the
sources of the noise. When I pull the power connector off the back of a
screen, I get much less noise.
Any thoughts on this? I can't very well wrap my EFIS screens in Faraday
cages. At this point, I am pretty much ready to give up on the notion of a
handheld radio as a backup communication device.
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 8:30 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> During my flight home from AirVenture, I decided to test my handheld
>> radio in flight. There was so much hum that it was unusable. This was a
>> low-ish frequency hum, not pulsing. Definitely not what I have heard in the
>> past as a higher frequency "alternator whine."
>>
>> Here are the details:
>>
>> I have the Yaesu Vertext FTA 550 handheld VHF radio. It works great on
>> the ground.
>>
>> I plugged in the Yaesu headset adapter into the radio. I plugged my
>> headset into the adapter.
>>
>> I have a second comm antenna on the airplane but, since the second comm
>> radio is not installed, I have the coax with BNC connector readily
>> available under the front of the instrument panel. I connected the second
>> comm antenna to the handheld. The two comm antennas are mounted on top of
>> the airplane, about 3 feet apart.
>>
>> I tuned to a nearby ASOS. The audio was buried under such a loud hum that
>> I could barely hear it. I tried a different ASOS; same result. I turned off
>> the comm radio in my panel and the hum was still present. I did not try
>> transmitting.
>>
>> The in-panel comm radio (a VAL COM 2000) does not have any hum.
>>
>> Other devices in the airplane which were turned on at the time:
>>
>> - Lycoming engine with primary and backup B&C alternators with B&C
>> voltage regulators. Ignition is from two newly rebuilt magnetos.
>> - PS Engineering audio panel.
>> - VAL NAV 2000 VOR/ILS/GS receiver.
>> - AeroLEDS landing lights on wig-wag
>> - AeroLEDS Pulsar NSP wingtip lights with strobes on but nav/position
>> lights off.
>> - MGL iEFIS system
>> - iPad and smartphone
>>
>> What ideas do you have? Carrying a handheld radio for backup
>> communication is kind of pointless if I can't communicate with it.
>>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Is the handheld using aircraft power or internal batteries?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491037#491037
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Can a remote antenna be connected? It might make a difference if the antenna is
just a couple of feet farther away from the MGL EFIS.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491038#491038
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Hi Art,
I should have thought of that when you 1st described the problem. One of
the other EFIS makers had a similar issue early in production; the display
itself was radiating at its scan rate (typically 30-60 Hz). I can't
remember what was done to cure the problem back then. If it were me, I'd
play with the handheld a bit, changing frequencies to see if some are
better/worse than others, and then contact MGL directly with as much
data as possible. They seem to be 'stand up' people, so I'd bet on them at
least trying to help you. Ranier Lamers of MGL posts occasionally on the
VAF forum, so they do pay attention to builders.
Charlie
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On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 6:49 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> I pulled and replaced fuses one at a time until I isolated the circuit
> that is generating the noise in my handheld. It is the MGL EFIS, believe it
> or not. After identifying the fuse, I started disconnecting individual
> devices. The circuit contains two MGL Challenger 10.4 inch screens and the
> MGL iBOX (the backend brains box of the system). The screens are the
> sources of the noise. When I pull the power connector off the back of a
> screen, I get much less noise.
>
> Any thoughts on this? I can't very well wrap my EFIS screens in Faraday
> cages. At this point, I am pretty much ready to give up on the notion of a
> handheld radio as a backup communication device.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 8:30 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>>
>>> During my flight home from AirVenture, I decided to test my handheld
>>> radio in flight. There was so much hum that it was unusable. This was a
>>> low-ish frequency hum, not pulsing. Definitely not what I have heard in the
>>> past as a higher frequency "alternator whine."
>>>
>>> Here are the details:
>>>
>>> I have the Yaesu Vertext FTA 550 handheld VHF radio. It works great on
>>> the ground.
>>>
>>> I plugged in the Yaesu headset adapter into the radio. I plugged my
>>> headset into the adapter.
>>>
>>> I have a second comm antenna on the airplane but, since the second comm
>>> radio is not installed, I have the coax with BNC connector readily
>>> available under the front of the instrument panel. I connected the second
>>> comm antenna to the handheld. The two comm antennas are mounted on top of
>>> the airplane, about 3 feet apart.
>>>
>>> I tuned to a nearby ASOS. The audio was buried under such a loud hum
>>> that I could barely hear it. I tried a different ASOS; same result. I
>>> turned off the comm radio in my panel and the hum was still present. I did
>>> not try transmitting.
>>>
>>> The in-panel comm radio (a VAL COM 2000) does not have any hum.
>>>
>>> Other devices in the airplane which were turned on at the time:
>>>
>>> - Lycoming engine with primary and backup B&C alternators with B&C
>>> voltage regulators. Ignition is from two newly rebuilt magnetos.
>>> - PS Engineering audio panel.
>>> - VAL NAV 2000 VOR/ILS/GS receiver.
>>> - AeroLEDS landing lights on wig-wag
>>> - AeroLEDS Pulsar NSP wingtip lights with strobes on but
>>> nav/position lights off.
>>> - MGL iEFIS system
>>> - iPad and smartphone
>>>
>>> What ideas do you have? Carrying a handheld radio for backup
>>> communication is kind of pointless if I can't communicate with it.
>>>
>>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut.
> 10:19
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Appareo Stratus ESG ADS-B transponder OSH Special |
I have an OSH special promotion code to receive a free Stratus 3i ADS-B-In
receiver when purchasing an Appareo Stratus transponder from a dealer
during the month of August. I am not going to use this code and could share
it with someone who reads the AeroElectric list. The code will expire in one
week and can only be used one time.
If interested, email me: Joe 9253 Fran at frontier dot com
There are no spaces in my email address.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491039#491039
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Internal batteries
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is the handheld using aircraft power or internal batteries?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Charlie,
I already posted on the MGL users' forum. Hopefully, I will hear back soon.
I figured I should close the loop here, too.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 8:45 AM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Art,
>
> I should have thought of that when you 1st described the problem. One of
> the other EFIS makers had a similar issue early in production; the display
> itself was radiating at its scan rate (typically 30-60 Hz). I can't
> remember what was done to cure the problem back then. If it were me, I'd
> play with the handheld a bit, changing frequencies to see if some are
> better/worse than others, and then contact MGL directly with as much
> data as possible. They seem to be 'stand up' people, so I'd bet on them at
> least trying to help you. Ranier Lamers of MGL posts occasionally on the
> VAF forum, so they do pay attention to builders.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
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>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 6:49 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> I pulled and replaced fuses one at a time until I isolated the circuit
>> that is generating the noise in my handheld. It is the MGL EFIS, believe it
>> or not. After identifying the fuse, I started disconnecting individual
>> devices. The circuit contains two MGL Challenger 10.4 inch screens and the
>> MGL iBOX (the backend brains box of the system). The screens are the
>> sources of the noise. When I pull the power connector off the back of a
>> screen, I get much less noise.
>>
>> Any thoughts on this? I can't very well wrap my EFIS screens in Faraday
>> cages. At this point, I am pretty much ready to give up on the notion of a
>> handheld radio as a backup communication device.
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 8:30 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>>>
>>>> During my flight home from AirVenture, I decided to test my handheld
>>>> radio in flight. There was so much hum that it was unusable. This was a
>>>> low-ish frequency hum, not pulsing. Definitely not what I have heard in the
>>>> past as a higher frequency "alternator whine."
>>>>
>>>> Here are the details:
>>>>
>>>> I have the Yaesu Vertext FTA 550 handheld VHF radio. It works great on
>>>> the ground.
>>>>
>>>> I plugged in the Yaesu headset adapter into the radio. I plugged my
>>>> headset into the adapter.
>>>>
>>>> I have a second comm antenna on the airplane but, since the second comm
>>>> radio is not installed, I have the coax with BNC connector readily
>>>> available under the front of the instrument panel. I connected the second
>>>> comm antenna to the handheld. The two comm antennas are mounted on top of
>>>> the airplane, about 3 feet apart.
>>>>
>>>> I tuned to a nearby ASOS. The audio was buried under such a loud hum
>>>> that I could barely hear it. I tried a different ASOS; same result. I
>>>> turned off the comm radio in my panel and the hum was still present. I did
>>>> not try transmitting.
>>>>
>>>> The in-panel comm radio (a VAL COM 2000) does not have any hum.
>>>>
>>>> Other devices in the airplane which were turned on at the time:
>>>>
>>>> - Lycoming engine with primary and backup B&C alternators with B&C
>>>> voltage regulators. Ignition is from two newly rebuilt magnetos.
>>>> - PS Engineering audio panel.
>>>> - VAL NAV 2000 VOR/ILS/GS receiver.
>>>> - AeroLEDS landing lights on wig-wag
>>>> - AeroLEDS Pulsar NSP wingtip lights with strobes on but
>>>> nav/position lights off.
>>>> - MGL iEFIS system
>>>> - iPad and smartphone
>>>>
>>>> What ideas do you have? Carrying a handheld radio for backup
>>>> communication is kind of pointless if I can't communicate with it.
>>>>
>>>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
At 07:56 AM 8/25/2019, you wrote:
>
>Can a remote antenna be connected? It might make a difference if
>the antenna is just a couple of feet farther away from the MGL EFIS.
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
This is the easiest solution . . . and it will markedly improve
hand-held performance. Assuming it's intended to back
up the panel mounted comm, consider crafting some way
of reconnecting the ship's normal comm antenna to
the hand held. Some builders have routed their
comm antenna coax such that it passed aft through
the cockpit but with a set of connectors that would
allow disconnection. Extra coax 'slack' was coiled
against the side wall and held with a suitable
retainer/cover (velcro'ed on?). When the coiled
breakout was opened and extended, the antenna
side of the feeder was connection to the hand
held with this or some similar arrangement.
See pictures 05, 06 and 09 here:
https://tinyurl.com/y32yn7cl
There have been numerous instances of LCD screen
radiation from instruments un-friendly to the
cockpit RF environment. Connecting the hand
held to a remotely mounted antenna fixed the
noise and improved performance as well . . .
win-win . . .
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
It is very well known for some EFIS systems to radiate some nasty RF. One t
hing that sometimes works is running a completely separate earth from a scr
ew on the case to ground.
Secondly, I have had good success with handheld radio and extraneous RF by
taking the headset fly lead and wrapping it a couple of times around and RF
choke (ferrite bead/choke). The ones that are in plastic housings that cli
p together. I found that it was often about two or three wraps that worked
not just passing the cable through once.
It made no difference to do this on the headset leads bit certainly did on
the fly lead from the radio itself.
Easy, cheap solution to try.
This is a very Heath Robinson fix but has worked in the past for me.
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list
-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
Sent: Monday, 26 August 2019 1:57:55 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight
Charlie,
I already posted on the MGL users' forum. Hopefully, I will hear back soon.
I figured I should close the loop here, too.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 8:45 AM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com<mailt
o:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Art,
I should have thought of that when you 1st described the problem. One of th
e other EFIS makers had a similar issue early in production; the display it
self was radiating at its scan rate (typically 30-60 Hz). I can't remember
what was done to cure the problem back then. If it were me, I'd play with t
he handheld a bit, changing frequencies to see if some are better/worse tha
n others, and then contact MGL directly with as much data as possible. They
seem to be 'stand up' people, so I'd bet on them at least trying to help y
ou. Ranier Lamers of MGL posts occasionally on the VAF forum, so they do pa
y attention to builders.
Charlie
[X]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
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On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 6:49 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name<mailto:art@zemon.
name>> wrote:
I pulled and replaced fuses one at a time until I isolated the circuit that
is generating the noise in my handheld. It is the MGL EFIS, believe it or
not. After identifying the fuse, I started disconnecting individual devices
. The circuit contains two MGL Challenger 10.4 inch screens and the MGL iBO
X (the backend brains box of the system). The screens are the sources of th
e noise. When I pull the power connector off the back of a screen, I get mu
ch less noise.
Any thoughts on this? I can't very well wrap my EFIS screens in Faraday cag
es. At this point, I am pretty much ready to give up on the notion of a han
dheld radio as a backup communication device.
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 8:30 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name<mailto:art@zemon.n
ame>> wrote:
During my flight home from AirVenture, I decided to test my handheld radio
in flight. There was so much hum that it was unusable. This was a low-ish f
requency hum, not pulsing. Definitely not what I have heard in the past as
a higher frequency "alternator whine."
Here are the details:
I have the Yaesu Vertext FTA 550 handheld VHF radio. It works great on the
ground.
I plugged in the Yaesu headset adapter into the radio. I plugged my headset
into the adapter.
I have a second comm antenna on the airplane but, since the second comm rad
io is not installed, I have the coax with BNC connector readily available u
nder the front of the instrument panel. I connected the second comm antenna
to the handheld. The two comm antennas are mounted on top of the airplane,
about 3 feet apart.
I tuned to a nearby ASOS. The audio was buried under such a loud hum that I
could barely hear it. I tried a different ASOS; same result. I turned off
the comm radio in my panel and the hum was still present. I did not try tra
nsmitting.
The in-panel comm radio (a VAL COM 2000) does not have any hum.
Other devices in the airplane which were turned on at the time:
* Lycoming engine with primary and backup B&C alternators with B&C volt
age regulators. Ignition is from two newly rebuilt magnetos.
* PS Engineering audio panel.
* VAL NAV 2000 VOR/ILS/GS receiver.
* AeroLEDS landing lights on wig-wag
* AeroLEDS Pulsar NSP wingtip lights with strobes on but nav/position l
ights off.
* MGL iEFIS system
* iPad and smartphone
What ideas do you have? Carrying a handheld radio for backup communication
is kind of pointless if I can't communicate with it.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. Deut. 10:19
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Fly Lead? Is that the wire that connects to the Flyback transformer? :-)
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491053#491053
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Bob,
I tried an external antenna. No difference in noise. I have two antennas
installed in the airplane and (so far) only one comm radio. So the other
coax is hanging down with a BNC connector on it so I can attach it to my
handheld. I got similar noise in-flight whether I used the external antenna
or the little whip antenna.
I'll see what MGL says but I suspect that I just won't be able to easily
use the handheld for a backup. The key seems to be proximity to the EFIS
screen. If I move the handheld a few more feet farther away) then the noise
decreases. Maybe I have to put the handheld on the floor behind me, instead
of in my lap.
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 10:29 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 07:56 AM 8/25/2019, you wrote:
>
>
> Can a remote antenna be connected? It might make a difference if the
> antenna is just a couple of feet farther away from the MGL EFIS.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> This is the easiest solution . . . and it will markedly improve
> hand-held performance. Assuming it's intended to back
> up the panel mounted comm, consider crafting some way
> of reconnecting the ship's normal comm antenna to
> the hand held. Some builders have routed their
> comm antenna coax such that it passed aft through
> the cockpit but with a set of connectors that would
> allow disconnection. Extra coax 'slack' was coiled
> against the side wall and held with a suitable
> retainer/cover (velcro'ed on?). When the coiled
> breakout was opened and extended, the antenna
> side of the feeder was connection to the hand
> held with this or some similar arrangement.
>
> See pictures 05, 06 and 09 here:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y32yn7cl
>
> There have been numerous instances of LCD screen
> radiation from instruments un-friendly to the
> cockpit RF environment. Connecting the hand
> held to a remotely mounted antenna fixed the
> noise and improved performance as well . . .
> win-win . . .
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
At 08:10 PM 8/25/2019, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I tried an external antenna. No difference in noise. I have two
>antennas installed in the airplane and (so far) only one comm radio.
>So the other coax is hanging down with a BNC connector on it so I
>can attach it to my handheld. I got similar noise in-flight whether
>I used the external antenna or the little whip antenna.
>
>I'll see what MGL says but I suspect that I just won't be able to
>easily use the handheld for a backup. The key seems to be proximity
>to the EFIS screen. If I move the handheld a few more feet farther
>away) then the noise decreases. Maybe I have to put the handheld on
>the floor behind me, instead of in my lap.
Interesting . . . does the hand-held have
an adjustable squelch? Can it be tightened
to quiet the noise? If you disconnect the
antenna, does the noise go away?
what kind of airplane again?
You wrote before:
>When I pull the power connector off
the back of a screen, I get much less noise.<
You say 'much less' . . . not zero . . . same
kind of noise or different 'voice'.
>. . . ready to give up on the notion of a
handheld radio as a backup communication device.<
This MIGHT be a function of the
brand of hand held. If a remote antenna
doesn't mitigate the problem, perhaps
the radio has a local vulnerability right
through the case.
Can you borrow another brand to try?
It's been a long time since I've heard
of a radiating screen problem . . . it
used to be pretty common.
Bob . . .
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