Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - ARINC Wiring Shield? (Art Zemon)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Art Zemon)
3. 11:56 AM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
4. 11:59 AM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
5. 12:08 PM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
6. 12:08 PM - Re: GNS 480 problems (Ralph E. Capen)
7. 12:28 PM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
8. 01:01 PM - Re: GNS 480 problems (skywagon185guy .)
9. 01:04 PM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
10. 01:52 PM - Re: GNS 480 problems (Charlie England)
11. 02:09 PM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
12. 02:15 PM - Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight (Erik Anderson)
13. 03:13 PM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
14. 04:17 PM - GNS 480 problems (saolesen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | ARINC Wiring Shield? |
Folks,
I am about to integrate one of the new Garmin 175 GPS receivers into my
airplane and that involves a couple of ARINC wire pairs. I am surprised to
see that the MGL-to-Garmin integration guide suggests shielded twisted pair
wiring. From my read of the signaling, ARINC uses a voltage differential
between the wires so it should be immune to noise and not require shielding
(much like the CAN bus).
Is shielding actually required (or even commonly suggested) for ARINC wire
pairs?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Bob,
answers to questions interspersed below
On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 9:54 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:10 PM 8/25/2019, you wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I tried an external antenna. No difference in noise. I have two antennas
> installed in the airplane and (so far) only one comm radio. So the other
> coax is hanging down with a BNC connector on it so I can attach it to my
> handheld. I got similar noise in-flight whether I used the external antenna
> or the little whip antenna.
>
> I'll see what MGL says but I suspect that I just won't be able to easily
> use the handheld for a backup. The key seems to be proximity to the EFIS
> screen. If I move the handheld a few more feet farther away) then the noise
> decreases. Maybe I have to put the handheld on the floor behind me, instead
> of in my lap.
>
>
> Interesting . . . does the hand-held have
> an adjustable squelch? Can it be tightened
> to quiet the noise? If you disconnect the
> antenna, does the noise go away?
>
The radio is a Yaesu FTA 550. I run it from AA batteries so it is
completely disconnected from the airplane (unless I connect the external
antenna).
I can adjust the squelch but if I turn the squelch high enough to cut the
noise, ASOS transmissions don't break the squelch when I am 20 miles or so
from the airport (where I want to be listening to the ASOS).
I did not try disconnecting the antenna and listening for noise, since I
only focused on configurations where the radio was actually usable.
what kind of airplane again?
>
Bede BD-4C, all aluminum
> You wrote before:
>
> >When I pull the power connector off
> the back of a screen, I get much less noise.<
>
> You say 'much less' . . . not zero . . . same
> kind of noise or different 'voice'.
>
Same noise. There are two identical EFIS screens. If I hold the radio where
it would be if I were flying, and disconnect the screen in front of the
pilot, there is less noise. The copilot's screen is still powered on. If I
pull the fuse for the EFIS system (both screens, iBox "brains" box,
magnetometer, and AHRS) then the noise goes away entirely.
>
> >. . . ready to give up on the notion of a
> handheld radio as a backup communication device.<
>
> This MIGHT be a function of the
> brand of hand held. If a remote antenna
> doesn't mitigate the problem, perhaps
> the radio has a local vulnerability right
> through the case.
>
> Can you borrow another brand to try?
>
I have an old Icom. I'll give it a try.
>
> It's been a long time since I've heard
> of a radiating screen problem . . . it
> used to be pretty common.
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
Message 3
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 5
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: GNS 480 problems |
If it works on the bench - I would say there's nothing wrong with the 480.
The pins in the tray would be my next investigation point. Make sure you have
good power and ground in the tray!
-----Original Message-----
>From: saolesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
>Sent: Aug 26, 2019 2:53 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS 480 problems
>
>
>My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something
else I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
>
>I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
>
>Sheldon Olesen
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: GNS 480 problems |
Sheldon,
If I recall the 480 was not a Garmin product but, is owned by Garmin so I
what I will explain is really aimed at GNS430's but, maybe also the 480.
The 430 chassis box is/was very sensitive when installed a bit too far back
in the aircraft panel. And, what has happened, is when the 430 is slid
into the chassis, some of the pins would not make 100% contact with the
chassis pin sockets.
Fix is to loosen the chassis mounting screws and pull it forward such that
it's forward edge is even with the instrument panel surface. And, thus,
the 430 can now slide a bit further back into chassis and the failing pins
will make contact with the chassis socket pin receivers.
Dave
On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:53 AM saolesen <saolesen@sirentel.net> wrote:
>
> My GNS 480 won=99t turn on. I=99ve checked the wiring to the
radio tray and
> there is the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480
to
> a bench power supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back
in
> the tray and turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I
> replace the female power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that tak
e
> care of the problem? I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket
> junction. Is there something else I should look at? I have had no
> problems with the tray and the radio prior to this, so I am looking for
> some one who has solved the problem before. The plane and radio have 902
> hours of use.
>
> I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switchin
g
> from the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have
> since switched back and everything is working normally again.
>
> Sheldon Olesen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: GNS 480 problems |
What Dave said, and also check both the pins and their mating socket
terminals, to be sure none have backed out of the housing slightly. I
really like subD connectors, but failure to fully seat and pins/sockets
backing out slightly (often almost undetectable with the naked eye) can
both cause problems. I had a similar problem with an old Narco 810, a
couple of decades ago.
Charlie
On 8/26/2019 2:58 PM, skywagon185guy . wrote:
> Sheldon,
> If I recall the 480 was not a Garmin product but, is owned by Garmin
> so I what I will explain is really aimed at GNS430's but, maybe also
> the 480.
> The 430 chassis box is/was very sensitivewheninstalled a bit too far
> back in the aircraft panel. And, what has happened, is when the 430
> is slid into the chassis, some of the pins would not make 100% contact
> with the chassis pin sockets.
> Fix is to loosen the chassis mounting screws and pull it forward such
> that it's forward edge is even with the instrument panel surface.
> And, thus, the 430 can now slide a bit further back into chassis and
> the failing pins will make contact with the chassis socket pin receivers.
> Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:53 AM saolesen <saolesen@sirentel.net
> <mailto:saolesen@sirentel.net>> wrote:
>
> <saolesen@sirentel.net <mailto:saolesen@sirentel.net>>
>
> My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio
> tray and there is the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also
> attached the 480 to a bench power supply and it turned on just
> fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and turning it on there
> was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female power
> and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the
> problem? I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction.
> Is there something else I should look at? I have had no problems
> with the tray and the radio prior to this, so I am looking for
> some one who has solved the problem before. The plane and radio
> have 902 hours of use.
>
> I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by
> switching from the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave
> Clarks. I have since switched back and everything is working
> normally again.
>
> Sheldon Olesen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
---
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Message 11
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight |
Art,
I run an iEFIS Explorer with a Sporty=99s SP-400 as my backup comm in m
y Long-EZ, no problems. Well, I could probably make some of the intercom wir
ing more elegant.
Now, the SP-400 is normally plugged into a winglet antenna, but it also work
s fine with just the aerial; I=99ve tested it. I=99d use it, if
the aerial antenna didn=99t sit right where I=99d like to have m
y left elbow.
Is it possible you=99re running very old software? MGL actually added
a bit of clock dithering to reduce EMI, but that update was...4 years ago.
>
> 1 December 2015 version A 1.0.2.6
>
>
> Added: Spread spectrum clocking on all peripherals, RS232, CAN bus as well
as LCD display. This =9Cspreads=9D EMI spurious emissions over a
larger frequency band thereby reducing peak power at any one specific frequ
ency. This aids in suppressing radio RX noise from EFIS in compromised insta
llations.
> Time: 04:43:10 AM PST US
> From: Art Zemon <art@zemon.name>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Comm Interference In Flight
>
> I pulled and replaced fuses one at a time until I isolated the circuit tha
t
> is generating the noise in my handheld. It is the MGL EFIS, believe it or
> not. After identifying the fuse, I started disconnecting individual
> devices. The circuit contains two MGL Challenger 10.4 inch screens and the
> MGL iBOX (the backend brains box of the system). The screens are the
> sources of the noise. When I pull the power connector off the back of a
> screen, I get much less noise.
>
> Any thoughts on this? I can't very well wrap my EFIS screens in Faraday
> cages. At this point, I am pretty much ready to give up on the notion of a
> handheld radio as a backup communication device.
>
> -- Art Z.
Message 13
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 14
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| Subject: | GNS 480 problems |
My GNS 480 wont turn on. Ive checked the wiring to the radio tray and there is
the proper voltage at the proper pins. I also attached the 480 to a bench power
supply and it turned on just fine. Sliding the radio back in the tray and
turning it on there was nothing. So my question is: If I replace the female
power and ground pins in the 37 pin dsub will that take care of the problem?
I am thinking there is wear at the pin-socket junction. Is there something else
I should look at? I have had no problems with the tray and the radio prior
to this, so I am looking for some one who has solved the problem before. The
plane and radio have 902 hours of use.
I also had transmission problems recently which were resolved by switching from
the Bose Lemo plug to the standard jacks and Dave Clarks. I have since switched
back and everything is working normally again.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
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