Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:42 PM - Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Peter Feneht)
2. 04:46 PM - Re: draft schematic attached (user9253)
3. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
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| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
A Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
Bob Verwey generously encouraged me to send my revised schematic abased on
Joe Gores' advice. In addition, I attached a conceptual layout of the
panel. I am mystified by how to go from these drawings to the actual
physical systems. I am seriously considering the Vertical Power system. I
am hoping their motto is correct, 'easier, safer, better' - and even if
theoretically I could do it less expensively without it, I might be willing
to put extra money toward the VP system for those qualities. Thanks in
advance for any additional advice you have to offer.
best. Peter
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:09 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
> Please let us have a copy of that updated drawing after the edits as
> suggested by Joe?
>
> Best...
> Bob Verwey
> 082 331 2727
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 02:53, Peter Feneht <peter.feneht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks! -pf
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:35 PM user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The 20 amp alternator fuse is way too small. The purpose of that fuse
>>> is to protect the battery from short circuits.
>>> The fuse should be physically located near the contactors.
>>> Use 18AWG for voltage regulator wires. The 5 amp regulator fuse is OK.
>>> The panel switch and 5 amp fuse are not needed or desired. Eliminate
>>> them. They are unnecessary failure points. Consider using 10AWG for the
>>> power bus feeder.
>>> The 12AWG wire going to the starter contactor is too big. Replace it
>>> with 18AWG. That wire needs to be fused. 5 amp should be good.
>>> The 14AWG wires connected to the power bus are too big. Replace them
>>> with 18AWG.
>>> Protect those wires with 5 amp fuses. Manufacturer's instructions take
>>> precedence over my recommendations.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Joe Gores
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=492871#492871
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> br> fts!)
>>> r> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ==========
>>> -
>>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
No doubt that Vertical Power performs as advertised. There are lots of satisfied
customers.
Vertical Power will provide lots of data that could come in handy for troubleshooting.
But there are some disadvantages:
It costs more than fuses.
If it breaks, can you fix it yourself?
If it becomes necessary to repair, will your plane be out of service?
Will the company ever go out of business?
If wiring a basic electrical system with fuses proves to be challenging, then so
will wiring Vertical Power.
Here is an interesting thread about fuses:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16762261&sid=ee7724058fb26b668cd6e7bd436dcf2b
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493090#493090
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
At 05:33 PM 11/17/2019, you wrote:
>Bob Verwey generously encouraged me to send my
>revised schematic abased on Joe Gores'
>advice.=C2 In addition, I attached a conceptual
>layout of the panel.=C2 I am mystified by how to
>go from these drawings to the actual physical
>systems.=C2 I am seriously considering the Vertical Power system.
The VP option means that you toss out all you've
done so far and start over . . .
>=C2 I am hoping their motto is correct, 'easier, safer, better'
. . . not quantitative.
> - and even if theoretically I could do it less expensively without it
> I might be willing to put extra money toward the VP system for those
> qualities. Thanks in advance for any additional advice you have to offer.
I've worked dozens of aircraft accident investigations.
I've read many more final reports on bad-days-in-the-cockpit.
Only a tiny percentage of accidents are precipitated or
advanced due to electrical system failures. Accidents
that started with electrical failures were found to have
root cause in poor judgement in electrical system management,
design and/or fabrication.
I would call your attention to accidents discussed in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N811HB_Feb2008_LA-IVp/
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N289DT_Nov2010_RV-10/Da
n_Lloyd_RV-10_Accident.pdf
. . . two examples of serious accidents precipitated
by poor craftsmanship and/or design decisions.
We've had numerous discussions over the years
exploring the manner in which ignorance of
electrical system functionality produced situations
that didn't need to happen. Here's one we studied
here on the List 15 years ago:
https://tinyurl.com/kqo7jx8
Building a failure tolerant electrical system is
really easy. It begins with two processes
you have already implemented: (1) propose an
architecture and (2) seek peer review. These
are best followed with continuous conversation
with knowledgeable/experienced individuals
as your project moves along.
The goal is to have an UNDERSTANDING of how
all the bits-and-pieces fit into the system . . .
a quality that you don't get in flight school.
Finally, it behooves you to have a plan-B
for worst case failure . . . the totally
dark panel. I've never owned an a cross-country
capable airplane . . . but I've rented dozens
of different machines. Not once did I concern
myself with the airplane's electrical system
service history . . . I carried this stuff
in the flight bag.
https://tinyurl.com/qw73hkd
I was always prepared to get where I had
intended to go whether or not the stuff on
the panel was working. In fact, most of
my cross-country navigation was conducted
with DUAL, $100 GPS hand-helds purchase
at Walmart . . . I've never bothered to
turn on the super-whippy GPS system
in a rental airplane. They were all
different and came with a 1-inch thick
owner's manual. I didn't what to take the
time to learn a new system with each rental
when my personal hand-helds got me there
and back again with accuracy and confidence.
You cannot purchase understanding or confidence
in your electrical system. Poor craftsmanship
can render all the gee-whiz features of a VP
system useless. I'm not suggesting that
the VP products do not function well as
advertised. But I would rather you craft
a system with a confidence that arises
from understanding and save a lot of money . . .
dollars that would no doubt put some handy
plan-b hardware in your flight bag.
You're off to an excellent start . . .
Bob . . .
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