---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/17/19: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:42 PM - Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Peter Feneht) 2. 04:46 PM - Re: draft schematic attached (user9253) 3. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:57 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:43 PM PST US From: Peter Feneht Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: draft schematic attached Bob Verwey generously encouraged me to send my revised schematic abased on Joe Gores' advice. In addition, I attached a conceptual layout of the panel. I am mystified by how to go from these drawings to the actual physical systems. I am seriously considering the Vertical Power system. I am hoping their motto is correct, 'easier, safer, better' - and even if theoretically I could do it less expensively without it, I might be willing to put extra money toward the VP system for those qualities. Thanks in advance for any additional advice you have to offer. best. Peter On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:09 AM Bob Verwey wrote: > Hi Peter > > Please let us have a copy of that updated drawing after the edits as > suggested by Joe? > > Best... > Bob Verwey > 082 331 2727 > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 02:53, Peter Feneht wrote: > >> Thanks! -pf >> >> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:35 PM user9253 wrote: >> >>> >>> The 20 amp alternator fuse is way too small. The purpose of that fuse >>> is to protect the battery from short circuits. >>> The fuse should be physically located near the contactors. >>> Use 18AWG for voltage regulator wires. The 5 amp regulator fuse is OK. >>> The panel switch and 5 amp fuse are not needed or desired. Eliminate >>> them. They are unnecessary failure points. Consider using 10AWG for the >>> power bus feeder. >>> The 12AWG wire going to the starter contactor is too big. Replace it >>> with 18AWG. That wire needs to be fused. 5 amp should be good. >>> The 14AWG wires connected to the power bus are too big. Replace them >>> with 18AWG. >>> Protect those wires with 5 amp fuses. Manufacturer's instructions take >>> precedence over my recommendations. >>> >>> -------- >>> Joe Gores >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=492871#492871 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> br> fts!) >>> r> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> ========== >>> - >>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:50 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: draft schematic attached From: "user9253" No doubt that Vertical Power performs as advertised. There are lots of satisfied customers. Vertical Power will provide lots of data that could come in handy for troubleshooting. But there are some disadvantages: It costs more than fuses. If it breaks, can you fix it yourself? If it becomes necessary to repair, will your plane be out of service? Will the company ever go out of business? If wiring a basic electrical system with fuses proves to be challenging, then so will wiring Vertical Power. Here is an interesting thread about fuses: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16762261&sid=ee7724058fb26b668cd6e7bd436dcf2b -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493090#493090 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:58 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: draft schematic attached At 05:33 PM 11/17/2019, you wrote: >Bob Verwey generously encouraged me to send my >revised schematic abased on Joe Gores' >advice.=C2 In addition, I attached a conceptual >layout of the panel.=C2 I am mystified by how to >go from these drawings to the actual physical >systems.=C2 I am seriously considering the Vertical Power system. The VP option means that you toss out all you've done so far and start over . . . >=C2 I am hoping their motto is correct, 'easier, safer, better' . . . not quantitative. > - and even if theoretically I could do it less expensively without it > I might be willing to put extra money toward the VP system for those > qualities. Thanks in advance for any additional advice you have to offer. I've worked dozens of aircraft accident investigations. I've read many more final reports on bad-days-in-the-cockpit. Only a tiny percentage of accidents are precipitated or advanced due to electrical system failures. Accidents that started with electrical failures were found to have root cause in poor judgement in electrical system management, design and/or fabrication. I would call your attention to accidents discussed in http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N811HB_Feb2008_LA-IVp/ and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N289DT_Nov2010_RV-10/Da n_Lloyd_RV-10_Accident.pdf . . . two examples of serious accidents precipitated by poor craftsmanship and/or design decisions. We've had numerous discussions over the years exploring the manner in which ignorance of electrical system functionality produced situations that didn't need to happen. Here's one we studied here on the List 15 years ago: https://tinyurl.com/kqo7jx8 Building a failure tolerant electrical system is really easy. It begins with two processes you have already implemented: (1) propose an architecture and (2) seek peer review. These are best followed with continuous conversation with knowledgeable/experienced individuals as your project moves along. The goal is to have an UNDERSTANDING of how all the bits-and-pieces fit into the system . . . a quality that you don't get in flight school. Finally, it behooves you to have a plan-B for worst case failure . . . the totally dark panel. I've never owned an a cross-country capable airplane . . . but I've rented dozens of different machines. Not once did I concern myself with the airplane's electrical system service history . . . I carried this stuff in the flight bag. https://tinyurl.com/qw73hkd I was always prepared to get where I had intended to go whether or not the stuff on the panel was working. In fact, most of my cross-country navigation was conducted with DUAL, $100 GPS hand-helds purchase at Walmart . . . I've never bothered to turn on the super-whippy GPS system in a rental airplane. They were all different and came with a 1-inch thick owner's manual. I didn't what to take the time to learn a new system with each rental when my personal hand-helds got me there and back again with accuracy and confidence. You cannot purchase understanding or confidence in your electrical system. Poor craftsmanship can render all the gee-whiz features of a VP system useless. I'm not suggesting that the VP products do not function well as advertised. But I would rather you craft a system with a confidence that arises from understanding and save a lot of money . . . dollars that would no doubt put some handy plan-b hardware in your flight bag. You're off to an excellent start . . . Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.