Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:21 AM - Re: Wiring book review (peroperro)
2. 01:29 AM - Re: Fast Return Investment 9000% ROI after 1 day (peroperro)
3. 01:39 AM - Re: Wiring book review (velletazjp)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Wiring book review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Charlie England)
6. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Peter Feneht)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Eric Page)
8. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Jeff Luckey)
10. 02:24 PM - YOU BETTER HAVE A PLAN! (racerjerry)
11. 06:13 PM - Re: YOU BETTER HAVE A PLAN! (Stuart Hutchison)
12. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: draft schematic attached (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring book review |
Hi velletazjp, to you think I can ask you to review my book as well? It would be
lovely to have your detailed input. Thanks very much in advance!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493095#493095
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fast Return Investment 9000% ROI after 1 day |
This ROI like you mentioned looks really suspicious. I simply don't believe anyone
can earn like this daily if we don't speak of a pyramid, of course. Whomever
promised you this revenue is I think unfair and not just to you. So if you
really want to win anything, you will be better off playing crypto games https://duckdice.com/promotions
and participating in the jackpot lottery.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493097#493097
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring book review |
peroperro wrote:
> Hi velletazjp, to you think I can ask you to review my book as well? It would
be lovely to have your detailed input. Thanks very much in advance!
I could of course, thought I doubt Ill be of any help. I followed religiously Bobs
recommendations and schematics and then I came to this list to get a final
review.
I suggest you start a new thread with your drawing attached so others can give
you their opinion too.
Im just a man in a cave watching shadows...
--------
2020 contribution paid
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493098#493098
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring book review |
At 03:20 AM 11/18/2019, you wrote:
><mrbadguy69@protonmail.com>
>
>Hi velletazjp, to you think I can ask you to review my book as well?
>It would be lovely to have your detailed input. Thanks very much in advance!
>
NOT A LEGIT SUBSCRIBER - IGNORE
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
Hi Peter,
I don't know about everyone else, but it's a lot simpler for me to open
.jpg files than .pdf. In my email client, I can open jpg directly, but I
must first download, then run a pdf viewer.
Charlie
On 11/17/2019 5:33 PM, Peter Feneht wrote:
> Bob Verwey generously encouraged me to send my revised schematic
> abased on Joe Gores' advice. In addition, I attached a conceptual
> layout of the panel. I am mystified by how to go from these drawings
> to the actual physical systems. I am seriously considering the
> Vertical Power system. I am hoping their motto is correct, 'easier,
> safer, better' - and even if theoretically I could do it less
> expensively without it, I might be willing to put extra money toward
> the VP system for those qualities. Thanks in advance for any
> additional advice you have to offer.
>
> best. Peter
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:09 AM Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com
> <mailto:bob.verwey@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Peter
>
> Please let us have a copy of that updated drawing after the edits
> as suggested by Joe?
>
> Best...
> Bob Verwey
> 082 331 2727
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 02:53, Peter Feneht <peter.feneht@gmail.com
> <mailto:peter.feneht@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks! -pf
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:35 PM user9253 <fransew@gmail.com
> <mailto:fransew@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <fransew@gmail.com <mailto:fransew@gmail.com>>
>
> The 20 amp alternator fuse is way too small. The purpose
> of that fuse is to protect the battery from short circuits.
> The fuse should be physically located near the contactors.
> Use 18AWG for voltage regulator wires. The 5 amp
> regulator fuse is OK.
> The panel switch and 5 amp fuse are not needed or
> desired. Eliminate them. They are unnecessary failure
> points. Consider using 10AWG for the power bus feeder.
> The 12AWG wire going to the starter contactor is too big.
> Replace it with 18AWG. That wire needs to be fused. 5
> amp should be good.
> The 14AWG wires connected to the power bus are too big.
> Replace them with 18AWG.
> Protect those wires with 5 amp fuses. Manufacturer's
> instructions take precedence over my recommendations.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
Bob - I really recognize and agree with the wisdom in the generous advice
that you gave me, super thanks!! You are right, if I build the system that
reflects my understanding of the system, then I can see all the separate
items for maintenance, repair, etc. The VP would be a large 'black box'
that I would have to learn to accept. I like your 'grass roots' type of
approach.
thanks. --Peter
On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 7:50 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 05:33 PM 11/17/2019, you wrote:
>
> Bob Verwey generously encouraged me to send my revised schematic abased o
n
> Joe Gores' advice.=C3=82 In addition, I attached a conceptual layout of
the
> panel.=C3=82 I am mystified by how to go from these drawings to the actu
al
> physical systems.=C3=82 I am seriously considering the Vertical Power sy
stem.
>
>
> The VP option means that you toss out all you've
> done so far and start over . . .
>
> =C3=82 I am hoping their motto is correct, 'easier, safer, better'
>
>
> . . . not quantitative.
>
> - and even if theoretically I could do it less expensively without it
> I might be willing to put extra money toward the VP system for those
> qualities. Thanks in advance for any additional advice you have to offer
.
>
>
> I've worked dozens of aircraft accident investigations.
> I've read many more final reports on bad-days-in-the-cockpit.
>
> Only a tiny percentage of accidents are precipitated or
> advanced due to electrical system failures. Accidents
> that started with electrical failures were found to have
> root cause in poor judgement in electrical system management,
> design and/or fabrication.
>
> I would call your attention to accidents discussed in
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N811HB_Feb2008_LA-IV
p/
>
> and
>
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N289DT_Nov2010_RV-10
/Dan_Lloyd_RV-10_Accident.pdf
>
> . . . two examples of serious accidents precipitated
> by poor craftsmanship and/or design decisions.
>
> We've had numerous discussions over the years
> exploring the manner in which ignorance of
> electrical system functionality produced situations
> that didn't need to happen. Here's one we studied
> here on the List 15 years ago:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/kqo7jx8
>
> Building a failure tolerant electrical system is
> really easy. It begins with two processes
> you have already implemented: (1) propose an
> architecture and (2) seek peer review. These
> are best followed with continuous conversation
> with knowledgeable/experienced individuals
> as your project moves along.
>
> The goal is to have an UNDERSTANDING of how
> all the bits-and-pieces fit into the system . . .
> a quality that you don't get in flight school.
>
> Finally, it behooves you to have a plan-B
> for worst case failure . . . the totally
> dark panel. I've never owned an a cross-country
> capable airplane . . . but I've rented dozens
> of different machines. Not once did I concern
> myself with the airplane's electrical system
> service history . . . I carried this stuff
> in the flight bag.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/qw73hkd
>
> I was always prepared to get where I had
> intended to go whether or not the stuff on
> the panel was working. In fact, most of
> my cross-country navigation was conducted
> with DUAL, $100 GPS hand-helds purchase
> at Walmart . . . I've never bothered to
> turn on the super-whippy GPS system
> in a rental airplane. They were all
> different and came with a 1-inch thick
> owner's manual. I didn't what to take the
> time to learn a new system with each rental
> when my personal hand-helds got me there
> and back again with accuracy and confidence.
>
> You cannot purchase understanding or confidence
> in your electrical system. Poor craftsmanship
> can render all the gee-whiz features of a VP
> system useless. I'm not suggesting that
> the VP products do not function well as
> advertised. But I would rather you craft
> a system with a confidence that arises
> from understanding and save a lot of money . . .
> dollars that would no doubt put some handy
> plan-b hardware in your flight bag.
>
> You're off to an excellent start . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
Charlie,
PDF has become the de facto standard for online document transfer.=C2- Ev
eryone uses it because *any* software package can "print" to a PDF engine t
o create it, and it solves the problems of incompatible document formats or
recipients not having the right software package.=C2- PDF is probably on
e of the top ten most useful -- and most used -- inventions since the dawn
of the internet.
As an aside, I sold a house a few years ago while whizzing through the west
ern Arizona desert at 70 mph, by electronically signing multiple PDF docume
nts on my iPad (my father was driving).=C2- I met my listing agent only o
nce, when she came to look at the house.=C2- Everything else was done wit
h PDFs.
I notice you use a gmail account.=C2- If you really don't want to deal wi
th downloading to your local machine, the gmail web interface will display
PDFs in your browser.
Cheers,
Eric
do not archive
On Monday, November 18, 2019, 06:44:21 AM HST, Charlie England <ceengla
nd7@gmail.com> wrote: I don't know about everyone else, but it's a lot sim
pler for me to open .jpg files than .pdf. In my email client, I can open jp
g directly, but I must first download, then run a pdf viewer.
Charlie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
At 11:20 AM 11/18/2019, you wrote:
>Bob - I really recognize and agree with the
>wisdom in the generous advice that you gave me,
>super thanks!!=C2 You are right, if I build the
>system that reflects my understanding of the
>system, then I can see all the separate items
>for maintenance, repair, etc.=C2 The VP would be
>a large 'black box' that I would have to learn
>to accept.=C2 I like your 'grass roots' type of approach.
You are most welcome. From the get-go of this
List, primary goals are topped off with
offering time, talent and resources that
go to understanding how to fabricate and
operate a failure-tolerant system.
Worked many years in the T/C world where
pilots were at risk for becoming passengers
in their own machines. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N26DK_Mar2013/20130317-
0_PRM1_N26DK.pdf
This airplane bit the dust after 'total electrical
failure', amongst other things. Yet, the ship's
battery was not returned to Concord until about
a year after the accident. After all this time,
the battery still contained a substantial percentage
of full capacity . . . the exact number escapes
me but it was on the order of 80%. The battery
was cycled in the lab and came up to normal
capacity.
A review of the report describes several lapses in
pilot training/understanding. Yet this was a nearly
new biz-jet with a whole panel full of
high-dollar whiz-bangs. But with his battery switch
in STANDBY . . . the really useful things were
not working.
Emacs!
Nearly ALL dark-n-stormy night stories in
the popular journals demonstrate similar
lapses in understanding. Fortunately, the
journal stories had happy endings . . .
the pilot survived to offer his own i-learned-about-
flying-from-that narrative.
I can assure you that the most 'reliable'
systems are simple, light, low-cost and
easily understood by a pilot who does
not choose to become an electrical engineer.
Such systems minimize AUTOMATIC operations
to critical functions that are not (1)
immediately failure-annunciated and (2)
backed up with a MANUALLY implemented plan-B.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
Peter,
I will add my 2 cents to this thread...
Re VP:=C2- I have to say that spending kilo-dollars to do something as el
ementary as power distribution seems like overkill.=C2- For less that a f
ew hundred dollars, you can create a distribution panel using circuit break
ers that accomplish the same mission as VP.=C2- (and even less $ if you e
lect to use fuses)
Circuit breakers (my personal choice) are inexpensive, have a proven track
record (been in use for decades), are individual/independent - i.e. if one
fails it does not affect the others.=C2- They have a very simple "user in
terface".=C2- You can tell whether it's tripped by looking at it. They do
n't require any software to use, program, or configure.=C2- They just wor
k.
If you're operating B777 which has 100s of branch circuits, then electronic
power distribution is certainly warranted.=C2- But for our little experi
mentals, it's most definitely overkill.
I often wonder what a pilot would do when he's trying to get home on a Sund
ay afternoon and something goes wrong w/ the VP system.=C2- There are no
user-serviceable parts in one of those devices.=C2- Is the problem isolat
ed to just one circuit?=C2- Is the whole system compromised?=C2- Is my
panel gonna go dark 15 minutes after take off?=C2- I don't know.=C2- It
would make me kinda nervous.=C2- Disclaimer: I don't own any VP products
and I don't know enough about them to answer those questions.=C2- But I
would certainly want satisfactory answers before considering that product.
=C2- (still pricey, though)
The following is something I wrote that summarizes many of the design conce
pts that BobN & people on this list promote (all good ideas).=C2- I'm bui
lding an RV-7 and I enjoy helping friends & fellow builders with their elec
trical systems.=C2-=C2-
For those who are not electronically inclined, dealing with the electrical
system in anexperimental airplane can seem a little overwhelming. If you're
not sure how to getstarted, need help sifting through all the options, or
just need a little coaching, this siteis here to help.
Electrical systems in experimental aircraft don=99t need to be really
complicated. Thebasic principles are pretty straightforward and the skills
required to do satisfactoryelectrical work are definitely learnable by jus
t about anyone who is capable of puttingan airframe together.
Let=99s face it; electricity can be a little scary. When things go wr
ong, electricalcomponents can create sparks, get really hot, and just plain
not work for no apparentreason. Letting the magic smoke out of that new gi
zmo can be expensiveand embarrassing.
I think that the electrical system in an experimental airplane should have
the followingcharacteristics. It should be:
1. Tolerate failure of any single component & end flight without an emergen
cy2. Reliable3. Easy to operate4. Easy to repair/maintain5. Use standard co
mponents that are readily available6. Cost effective
Those goals can be accomplished with a little effort and some help from the
good folks on this List.
Jeff LuckeyKCMA
On Monday, November 18, 2019, 09:31:49 AM PST, Peter Feneht <peter.fene
ht@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob - I really recognize and agree with the wisdom in the generous advice
that you gave me, super thanks!!=C2- You are right, if I build the system
that reflects my understanding of the system, then I can see all the separ
ate items for maintenance, repair, etc.=C2- The VP would be a large 'blac
k box' that I would have to learn to accept.=C2- I like your 'grass roots
' type of approach.thanks.=C2- --Peter
On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 7:50 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
At 05:33 PM 11/17/2019, you wrote:
Bob Verwey generously encouragedme to send my revised schematic abased on J
oe Gores' advice.=C3=82=C2- Inaddition, I attached a conceptual layout of
the panel.=C3=82=C2- I ammystified by how to go from these drawings to t
he actual physicalsystems.=C3=82=C2- I am seriously considering the Verti
cal Powersystem.
=C2- The VP option means that you toss out all you've
=C2- done so far and start over . . .
=C3=82=C2- I am hoping their mottois correct, 'easier, safer, better'
=C2-=C2- . . . not quantitative.
=C2-- and even iftheoretically I could do it less expensively without it
=C2-I might be willing to put extra money toward the VP system forthose
=C2-qualities. Thanks in advance for any additional advice you have tooff
er.
=C2- I've worked dozens of aircraft accident investigations.
=C2- I've read many more final reports onbad-days-in-the-cockpit.
=C2- Only a tiny percentage of accidents are precipitated or
=C2- advanced due to electrical system failures. Accidents
=C2- that started with electrical failures were found to have
=C2- root cause in poor judgement in electrical system management,
=C2- design and/or fabrication.
=C2- I would call your attention to accidents discussedin
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N811HB_Feb2008_LA-IVp/
and=C2-
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N289DT_Nov2010_RV-10/D
an_Lloyd_RV-10_Accident.pdf
=C2- . . . two examples of serious accidents precipitated
=C2- by poor craftsmanship and/or design decisions.
=C2- We've had numerous discussions over the years
=C2- exploring the manner in which ignorance of
=C2- electrical system functionality produced situations
=C2- that didn't need to happen. Here's one we studied
=C2- here on the List 15 years ago:
https://tinyurl.com/kqo7jx8
=C2- Building a failure tolerant electrical system is
=C2- really easy. It begins with two processes
=C2- you have already implemented: (1) propose an
=C2- architecture and (2) seek peer review. These
=C2- are best followed with continuous conversation
=C2- with knowledgeable/experienced individuals
=C2- as your project moves along.
=C2- The goal is to have an UNDERSTANDING of how
=C2- all the bits-and-pieces fit into the system . . .
=C2- a quality that you don't get in flight school.
=C2- Finally, it behooves you to have a plan-B
=C2- for worst case failure . . . the totally
=C2- dark panel. I've never owned an a cross-country
=C2- capable airplane . . . but I've rented dozens
=C2- of different machines. Not once did I concern
=C2- myself with the airplane's electrical system
=C2- service history . . . I carried this stuff
=C2- in the flight bag.
https://tinyurl.com/qw73hkd
=C2- I was always prepared to get where I had
=C2- intended to go whether or not the stuff on
=C2- the panel was working. In fact, most of
=C2- my cross-country navigation was conducted
=C2- with DUAL, $100 GPS hand-helds purchase
=C2- at Walmart . . . I've never bothered to
=C2- turn on the super-whippy GPS system
=C2- in a rental airplane. They were all
=C2- different and came with a 1-inch thick
=C2- owner's manual.=C2- I didn't what to take the
=C2- time to learn a new system with each rental
=C2- when my personal hand-helds got me there
=C2- and back again with accuracy and confidence.
=C2- You cannot purchase understanding or confidence
=C2- in your electrical system. Poor craftsmanship
=C2- can render all the gee-whiz features of a VP
=C2- system useless. I'm not suggesting that
=C2- the VP products do not function well as
=C2- advertised. But I would rather you craft
=C2- a system with a confidence that arises
=C2- from understanding and save a lot of money . . .
=C2- dollars that would no doubt put some handy
=C2- plan-b hardware in your flight bag.
=C2- You're off to an excellent start . . .
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | YOU BETTER HAVE A PLAN! |
I value SIMPLICITY!
While Bob & Stein are absolutely correct in the previous discussion about aircraft
electrical architecture, I would like to share my perspective.
Say you actually have an electrical shorting problem and get smoke in the cockpit
- WHADDAYA' DO NOW?
YOU BETTER HAVE a PLAN! My plan is, one motion, KILL MASTER SWITCH; turning
off all electrical power. And do anything necessary in order to breath some fresh
air, including sticking head outside window. Often, you only have a very
few seconds react and figure it all out, or.... GAME OVER!
Years ago I did appliance service work from a van that some yahoo had wired in
a burglar alarm by twisting wires together. While driving down the road at about
40 mph, the darned wiring shorted out and it was all I could do to get the
van stopped and roll out onto the roadway coughing my brains out; completely
oblivious to oncoming traffic. I was totally incapacitated in mere seconds due
to PVC fumes from melted wiring. The interior of that van had a whole lot more
room to disperse fumes than a typical homebuilt airplane or even my 172.
While I am on this subject, please do not wire your airplane with anything but
certified aircraft wire (MIL-W-22759). PVC insulated crap from the auto store
will incapacitate you MUCH sooner. Be aware that power cables from accessories
and devices never meant to be panel installed in certified aircraft have the
same danger.
As I said, I value simplicity.
What electrical devices do I need to get my airplane safely back on the ground?
Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Can I safely land without flaps or radio or anything else electrical? Answer:
YES - magneto ignition and flying VFR only.
Would I rather be flying a homebuilt Van's RV? Answer: You better believe it;
but I am too darned old now and consider myself very lucky to keep what I already
have (wife included).
If you have an electrically dependent airplane.... Good luck with that!
You had better make those systems very robust and completely isolated from the
rest as much as humanly possible.
If you have a bubble canopy, how are you going to get a blast of fresh air to your
face or vent out the smoke quickly. Better figure out a plan NOW. NACA fuselage
scoop with outlet hose aimed at your face? Maybe. Oxygen system?
- cannula type won't work - need mask and possibly eye protection from irritants.
BTW, If you install a terminal block, make darned sure that an internal star lock-washer
is installed under every screw head (or nut) as normal vibration is
very likely to cause separation and some of the electrical shorting problems that
you are trying to protect from.
AND, electronic ignition is great and can offer advantages as long as you retain
ONE stock magneto. Don't be fooled by marketeer nonsense that can kill you.
Yeah, I know that I am going to take some heat from this; especially since all
GA is headed toward EFI and total electrical dependency, but I stand my ground.
Keep the odds on your side.
Jerry King
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493111#493111
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: YOU BETTER HAVE A PLAN! |
Well said Jerry.
Yes, therell be differing opinions, everyones prerogative.
Im building IFR with a slider canopy that cant be opened at all in flight. After
a long career dealing with smoke and fumes of unknown origin in P-3 Orions (high
power flying electronics platforms), I have thought very carefully about
smoke and fumes in the cockpit; therefore NACA scoop placement/efficiency with
a big punkah louvre and smoke removal doors too. I also have plans for a sealable,
slim fireproof container (with silicon vent overboard) for portable electronic
devices (e.g. iPad or iPhone) should one of those start smoking/burning,
noting Lithium battery fires cant be externally extinguished (cathode degeneration
propagates oxygen). I used Vans fuselage vents mounted backwards as smoke
removal doors ... they may want to close under slipstream pressure, but can
be locked open.
Kind regards, Stu
Sent from my iPhone
> On 19 Nov 2019, at 09:34, racerjerry <gnking2@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> I value SIMPLICITY!
>
> While Bob & Stein are absolutely correct in the previous discussion about aircraft
electrical architecture, I would like to share my perspective.
> Say you actually have an electrical shorting problem and get smoke in the cockpit
- WHADDAYA' DO NOW?
>
> YOU BETTER HAVE a PLAN! My plan is, one motion, KILL MASTER SWITCH; turning
off all electrical power. And do anything necessary in order to breath some
fresh air, including sticking head outside window. Often, you only have a very
few seconds react and figure it all out, or.... GAME OVER!
>
> Years ago I did appliance service work from a van that some yahoo had wired in
a burglar alarm by twisting wires together. While driving down the road at
about 40 mph, the darned wiring shorted out and it was all I could do to get the
van stopped and roll out onto the roadway coughing my brains out; completely
oblivious to oncoming traffic. I was totally incapacitated in mere seconds due
to PVC fumes from melted wiring. The interior of that van had a whole lot
more room to disperse fumes than a typical homebuilt airplane or even my 172.
>
> While I am on this subject, please do not wire your airplane with anything but
certified aircraft wire (MIL-W-22759). PVC insulated crap from the auto store
will incapacitate you MUCH sooner. Be aware that power cables from accessories
and devices never meant to be panel installed in certified aircraft have
the same danger.
>
> As I said, I value simplicity.
> What electrical devices do I need to get my airplane safely back on the ground?
Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
> Can I safely land without flaps or radio or anything else electrical? Answer:
YES - magneto ignition and flying VFR only.
> Would I rather be flying a homebuilt Van's RV? Answer: You better believe it;
but I am too darned old now and consider myself very lucky to keep what I already
have (wife included).
>
> If you have an electrically dependent airplane.... Good luck with that!
> You had better make those systems very robust and completely isolated from the
rest as much as humanly possible.
>
> If you have a bubble canopy, how are you going to get a blast of fresh air to
your face or vent out the smoke quickly. Better figure out a plan NOW. NACA
fuselage scoop with outlet hose aimed at your face? Maybe. Oxygen system?
- cannula type won't work - need mask and possibly eye protection from irritants.
>
> BTW, If you install a terminal block, make darned sure that an internal star
lock-washer is installed under every screw head (or nut) as normal vibration is
very likely to cause separation and some of the electrical shorting problems
that you are trying to protect from.
>
> AND, electronic ignition is great and can offer advantages as long as you retain
ONE stock magneto. Don't be fooled by marketeer nonsense that can kill you.
Yeah, I know that I am going to take some heat from this; especially since
all GA is headed toward EFI and total electrical dependency, but I stand my ground.
>
> Keep the odds on your side.
>
> Jerry King
>
> --------
> Jerry King
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493111#493111
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: draft schematic attached |
At 11:20 AM 11/18/2019, you wrote:
>Bob - I really recognize and agree with the
>wisdom in the generous advice that you gave me,
>super thanks!!=C2 You are right, if I build the
>system that reflects my understanding of the
>system, then I can see all the separate items
>for maintenance, repair, etc.=C2 The VP would be
>a large 'black box' that I would have to learn
>to accept.=C2 I like your 'grass roots' type of approach.
You are most welcome. From the get-go of this
List, primary goals are topped off with
offering time, talent and resources that
go to understanding how to fabricate and
operate a failure-tolerant system.
Worked many years in the T/C world where
pilots were at risk for becoming passengers
in their own machines. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Accidents/N26DK_Mar2013/20130317-
0_PRM1_N26DK.pdf
This airplane bit the dust after 'total electrical
failure', amongst other things. Yet, the ship's
battery was not returned to Concord until about
a year after the accident. After all this time,
the battery still contained a substantial percentage
of full capacity . . . the exact number escapes
me but it was on the order of 80%. The battery
was cycled in the lab and came up to normal
capacity.
A review of the report describes several lapses in
pilot training/understanding. Yet this was a nearly
new biz-jet with a whole panel full of
high-dollar whiz-bangs. However, with his battery switch
in STANDBY . . . some really useful things were
not working.
Emacs!
Nearly ALL dark-n-stormy night stories in
the popular journals demonstrate similar
lapses in understanding. Fortunately, the
journal stories had happy endings . . .
the pilot survived to offer his own i-learned-about-
flying-from-that narrative (See Chapter 17
in the 'Connection).
I can assure you that the most 'reliable'
systems are simple, light, low-cost yet
easily understood by a pilot who
chooses not to become an electrical engineer.
Such systems minimize AUTOMATIC operations
to critical functions that are not (1)
immediately failure-annunciated and (2)
backed up with a MANUALLY implemented plan-B.
My all time favorite reliability study
ASSUMES that things WILL fail. There
is a process call Failure Mode Effects
Analysis whereby one deduces the effects
for failure of ANY single component in
the system.
1. How many ways can this part fail?
2. How will each failure affect system operation?
3. How will I know it failed?
4. Is the failure pre-flight detectable?
5. Is failure of this part, in any failure mode, likely to create
a hazard to flight?
6. Will failure of this part be likely to overtax my piloting
skills for comfortably terminating the flight?
Having conducted hundreds of FMEA studies I have concluded:
Nuckolls' first law of airplane systems design sez: "Things
break"
The second: "Systems shall be designed so that when a thing
breaks, no immediate hazard is created."
The third: "Things needed for comfortable termination of
flight requires backup or special consideration to insure
operational availability"
The forth: "Upgrading the quality, reliability, longevity, or
capability of a part shall be because you're tired of replacing
it or want some new feature, not because it damned near got
you killed."
All this may sound ominous and profound but it's
really simple. As you evolve your proposed architecture,
advise us how you plan to use the airplane. Are there
potential mission conditions that elevate risk for
any given failure? I'll bet that the aggregate
aviation experience here on the List would be
measured in centuries. Let's talk about your
design and mission goals . . . by the time
all the sands are sifted, you'll end up with
a very flight-worthy project with reliability
borne of your own understanding.
Bob . . .
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