Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:43 AM - Re: Alternator stops working at low idle RPM (user9253)
2. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Alternator stops working at low idle RPM (Ernest Christley)
3. 12:47 PM - Useful Tips (georgeevans)
4. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: Alternator stops working at low idle RPM (skywagon185guy .)
5. 02:20 PM - Questions as I Design My Circuit Diagram (markfw)
6. 03:59 PM - Re: Useful Tips (Charles Kuss)
7. 04:08 PM - Re: Questions as I Design My Circuit Diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 04:57 PM - Re: Useful Tips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Lead Wiring Component? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:59 PM - ATO vs ATC fuses (Pat Little)
11. 06:09 PM - Re: ATO vs ATC fuses (Sebastien)
12. 07:49 PM - Re: Questions as I Design My Circuit Diagram (user9253)
13. 09:21 PM - Switch ratings? (David Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator stops working at low idle RPM |
Intermittent problems are difficult to troubleshoot. It is easy to jump to false
conclusions. The problem could be a lose connection.
One likely suspect is the alternator on-off switch, which in this case might be
one half of the master switch.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493799#493799
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator stops working at low idle RPM |
Sounds to me like a heat soak could be affecting solid state components in
the ALT or regulator.=C2- Could you heat soak both with a heat gun or ha
ir dryer before starting and doing a static run-up?
On Thursday, December 12, 2019, 9:46:48 PM EST, Argonaut36 <fmlibrino@m
sn.com> wrote:
Thanks for all the explanations and recommendations.=C2- I come back only
now because I wanted to fly one more time to do a few additional tests.
This is what I observed today:
Tachometer reads about 60-70 rpm slow=C2- (I checked it with a Trutach ta
chometer that is supposed to be much more accurate than the airplane tachom
eter).=C2- So the 500 RPM idle that I previously reported is in reality 5
60-570.
When I throttle back to idle during engine warm-up, the voltmeter was readi
ng 14.4 volts and not battery voltage, which I found disconcerting.
The voltmeter reads 14.4-14.5 V on the ground and 14.2 V in flight with the
same electrical loads
The alternator stopped operating on the runway after landing as in the rece
nt previous flights.=C2- Landing was intentionally as smooth as I could i
n order not to cause a bad contact (if existing) to open.
After getting off the runway I tried (twice) to reset the alternator by tur
ning off all the electrical equipment including the master and then turning
everything on again.=C2- The alternator did not come online.
I contacted the maker of the voltage regulator.=C2- They said that altern
ator is supposed to go offline at a very low RPM, but it should come back o
n, when the RPM is increased.=C2- This is not the case with my alternator
!
This alternator was installed recently.=C2- It is a factory refurbished a
lternator.=C2- The previous alternator was also going offline, but not ju
st after landing.=C2- I replaced it, because it had already 800 hours on
it, hoping that the new one would not go offline.
The recommended tests are a bit complicated for me to perform.=C2- Access
is difficult in my airplane and it takes long time to disassemble and re-a
ssemble.
I plan on bumping up the idle to 650-700 RPM and doing another test flight.
Thanks in advance for any additional suggestions and comments
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493795#493795
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 3
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Writing is rather hard and a complex process that always demands a lot of time
and effort. Moreover, in some cases, it requires specific skills and knowledge.
Speaking about my personal experience I would say it was challenging. Luckily,
once I accidentally found one useful source where everyone can find a lot of
useful tips and even aspiration nursing care plan (https://essayslab.com/risk-for-aspiration-nursing-care-plan.html).
--------
Find more interesting here
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493802#493802
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator stops working at low idle RPM |
This is a comment only about your tach error that you mentioned.
I am assuming that the tach is the original Cessna tach that is drive by a
cable like a speedometer.
Those are usually factory calibrated to be "accurate" in mid to high rpm
range.
Do to age, meter movement drag, etc. they loose accuracy.
Interestingly, if you want, the tach can be adjusted to be accurate in the
range you pick. The tach mechanism is regulated by a coiled spring, much
like a watch movement, and the spring setting can be adjusted.
The "fix" is... remove the tach from the panel. Connect it is a portable
drill motor rotating in the "correct" direction.
And, you need an accurate rpm calibrated strobe light. You probably have a
friend with one.
Trick is to run the portable drill at the desired rpm verified by the
accurate strobe, next viewing the tach error and carefully adjusting the
tach spring tension such that is reads accurately in the range you want.
Must likely, it will not be fully accurate over all ranges of rpm.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 6:51 PM Argonaut36 <fmlibrino@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the explanations and recommendations. I come back only now
> because I wanted to fly one more time to do a few additional tests.
> This is what I observed today:
>
> Tachometer reads about 60-70 rpm slow (I checked it with a Trutach
> tachometer that is supposed to be much more accurate than the airplane
> tachometer). So the 500 RPM idle that I previously reported is in reality
> 560-570.
> When I throttle back to idle during engine warm-up, the voltmeter was
> reading 14.4 volts and not battery voltage, which I found disconcerting.
> The voltmeter reads 14.4-14.5 V on the ground and 14.2 V in flight with
> the same electrical loads
> The alternator stopped operating on the runway after landing as in the
> recent previous flights. Landing was intentionally as smooth as I could in
> order not to cause a bad contact (if existing) to open.
> After getting off the runway I tried (twice) to reset the alternator by
> turning off all the electrical equipment including the master and then
> turning everything on again. The alternator did not come online.
> I contacted the maker of the voltage regulator. They said that alternator
> is supposed to go offline at a very low RPM, but it should come back on,
> when the RPM is increased. This is not the case with my alternator!
>
> This alternator was installed recently. It is a factory refurbished
> alternator. The previous alternator was also going offline, but not just
> after landing. I replaced it, because it had already 800 hours on it,
> hoping that the new one would not go offline.
> The recommended tests are a bit complicated for me to perform. Access is
> difficult in my airplane and it takes long time to disassemble and
> re-assemble.
> I plan on bumping up the idle to 650-700 RPM and doing another test flight.
> Thanks in advance for any additional suggestions and comments
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493795#493795
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Questions as I Design My Circuit Diagram |
I am building an LSA Carbon Cub which will be electrically dependent. since I will
be flying only day VFR, I have followed Bob's advice and I am following the
KISS principle and wiring the plane like a C150 using the Z11 schematic as a
starting point.
The only things I know about electrical systems is what I have learned reading
Bob's book, so I am a total novice at this. As I design my own schematic I realize
that I have questions that I cannot answer. They may be dumb, and if so I
apologize.
1. I have read that all circuits should have overload protection to protect the
wire. When I look at Z11 there doesn't appear to be a fuse or CB on the wire
from the Battery Contactor to the Main Bus, nor on the wire from the Main Bus
to the Endurance Bus. What is the convention in use here?
2. I have read that alternators only deliver 80% of their rated power, so I am
missing 8 amps of power from my 40 amp rated Hartzell X-Drive. My 7 feet of 8AWG
wire back to the battery accounts for less than 1 amp of the loss. Where does
it go? Is this 80% number really true?
3. I am going to start with a single (big) EarthX battery in my plane. However
the battery compartment under the pilot's seat is easily accessible (the seat
tilts forward) and another EarthX would fit in nicely. I might want to add another
battery at some point in the future when I fly over water or mountains here
in the Northwest.
Bob has published elegant solutions to the 2 battery configuration, and I know
that he has forgotten more than I will ever know about aircraft electrics. However
I am wondering if there are reasons why I couldn't keep it simple and just
wire up a 200 amp Marine battery switch as a simple A/B flip flop to a second
battery? There probably are.
Thanks.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493804#493804
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What BS is this? Obviously a members email has been hacked and a spammer ha
s posted this to the list. The affected member needs to update his antiviru
s software and run a full scan on his hard drive. Failing that the member n
eeds to be blocked to keep more of this garbage from cluttering up the list
.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 4:03 PM, georgeevans<ggeorgeevans2@gmail.com> wro
@gmail.com>
Writing is rather hard and a complex process that always demands a lot of t
ime and effort. Moreover, in some cases, it requires specific skills and kn
owledge. Speaking about my personal experience I would say it was challengi
ng. Luckily, once I accidentally found one useful source where everyone can
find a lot of useful tips and even aspiration nursing care plan (https://e
ssayslab.com/risk-for-aspiration-nursing-care-plan.html).
--------
Find more interesting=C2- here
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493802#493802
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Questions as I Design My Circuit Diagram |
At 04:19 PM 12/13/2019, you wrote:
>
>I am building an LSA Carbon Cub which will be electrically
>dependent. since I will be flying only day VFR, I have followed
>Bob's advice and I am following the KISS principle and wiring the
>plane like a C150 using the Z11 schematic as a starting point.
What have you changed and why?
>The only things I know about electrical systems is what I have
>learned reading Bob's book, so I am a total novice at this. As I
>design my own schematic I realize that I have questions that I
>cannot answer. They may be dumb, and if so I apologize.
>
>1. I have read that all circuits should have overload protection to
>protect the wire. When I look at Z11 there doesn't appear to be a
>fuse or CB on the wire from the Battery Contactor to the Main Bus,
>nor on the wire from the Main Bus to the Endurance Bus. What is the
>convention in use here?
The only wires needing protection are those
that feed some accessory from a source capable
of burning the wire.
Bus feeders (referred to here on the list as
'fat wires" are generally not at risk for
burning . . . there are no probable faults
'hard' enough to put those wires at risk
with one exception: Rolling your airplane up
in a ball on the rocks . . . which is why
the wire-burning source (battery) is expected
to be off line (battery master off) before
you hit the rocks.
Z11 is correct and complete as published.
>2. I have read that alternators only deliver 80% of their rated
>power, so I am missing 8 amps of power from my 40 amp rated Hartzell
>X-Drive. My 7 feet of 8AWG wire back to the battery accounts for
>less than 1 amp of the loss. Where does it go? Is this 80% number really true?
No. The general rule is that maximum
anticipated running loads for your airplane
should not be greater than 80% of the
alternator's ratings. This leaves 20% for
battery replenishment after takeoff.
Modern, light weight alternators generally
have much more snort than required by our
airplanes. Have you done a load analysis for
your project? In TC aircraft designs, this
is one of the FIRST studies started and
then maintained through certification. It's
a critical part of the certification process.
>3. I am going to start with a single (big) EarthX battery in my
>plane. However the battery compartment under the pilot's seat is
>easily accessible (the seat tilts forward) and another EarthX would
>fit in nicely. I might want to add another battery at some point in
>the future when I fly over water or mountains here in the Northwest.
What engine is in your airplane?
>
>
>Bob has published elegant solutions to the 2 battery configuration,
>and I know that he has forgotten more than I will ever know about
>aircraft electrics. However I am wondering if there are reasons why
>I couldn't keep it simple and just wire up a 200 amp Marine battery
>switch as a simple A/B flip flop to a second battery? There probably are.
This has been suggested many times here
on the List over the years. Given the
proximity of your battery to the cabin,
a manual switch is a perfectly acceptable
substituted for a master contactor. I took
dual instruction in a Piper TriPacer that
had manual switches for both the battery
master and the starter.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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At 05:57 PM 12/13/2019, you wrote:
>What BS is this? Obviously a members email has been hacked and a
>spammer has posted this to the list. The affected member needs to
>update his antivirus software and run a full scan on his hard drive.
>Failing that the member needs to be blocked to keep more of this
>garbage from cluttering up the list.
Just reading the email puts nobody's system
at risk. CLICKING on the link MIGHT present
a risk but why click on it?
Firewalls are not perfect. Matt's system has
to work overtime just to filter the constant
attacks. Two years ago, my outbound messages
would be accepted by the system in seconds
after hitting 'send'. Nowadays, it can take
up to a minute before the server gets around
to checking and accepting my outbound traffic.
I used to be able to drop out of my email client
seconds after sending a message. Now I have to
fight a 15-year old habit to close too quick
Need to leave client opened and minimized
before going off to do other things.
Bottom line . . . not worthy of much emotional
or practical capital. Unless
it's (1) somebody you know and (2) the
message topic/content is germane to our
efforts here on the List . . . . . don't
'click' . . . 'delete'.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Lead Wiring Component? |
At 09:08 PM 1/28/2019, you wrote:
>
>Thanks for the information. There is also a noise filter on the
>lead from the control switch to the (I) terminal on the
>regulator. They must not do any harm since the radio is
>clear. I'll just leave well enough alone.
>
>
Not a subscriber . . . ignore
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | ATO vs ATC fuses |
Is there a preference for our OBAM aircraft between ATO (housing open at
the bottom) and ATC (closed housing) fuses? I can imagine that when a fuse
blows some particles of metal might get spewed out of an open housing, but
I have no idea if this is the case.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: ATO vs ATC fuses |
Interesting question. At the same time I'd like to ask if there is any
downside to using mini fuses.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 19:04 Pat Little <roughleg@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a preference for our OBAM aircraft between ATO (housing open at
> the bottom) and ATC (closed housing) fuses? I can imagine that when a fuse
> blows some particles of metal might get spewed out of an open housing, but
> I have no idea if this is the case.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Questions as I Design My Circuit Diagram |
2. An alternator will deliver 100 percent of its rated power if the load
demands it. However, the alternator could overheat if fully loaded unless it
is
adequately cooled. Amperage is not lost over a length of wire, voltage is
lost. Where does it go? Lost energy is turned into heat that warms the wire.
8 AWG wire should carry 40 amps with minimal voltage loss. Loading an
alternator to 80 percent of its capacity is a rule of thumb to ensure that it
does not overheat. Modern avionics in a VFR Carbon Cub are unlikely to
draw more 10 amps.
-
3. After engine start, the aircraft electrical system gets its power from the
alternator, not the battery. The battery serves as a backup in case the
alternator fails. Usually a backup to a backup is not necessary in a VFR aircraft.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=493812#493812
Message 13
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Are switch ratings related to power? I'm wondering if I can assume that a
12A/28VDC rating would be equivalent to a 24A/12VDC rating. The switch I'm
interested in is rated at 125VAC and 28VDC but not 14V. Is 24A a safe
assumption at 14V? Or is there more to it? This is the switch:
https://www.mcmaster.com/7337k98
--Dave
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