Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: B&C voltage regulator low voltage warning (ADDENDUM) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:17 AM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:20 AM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 12:52 PM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: EFI current requirements (skywagon185guy .)
6. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: EFI current requirements (Charlie England)
7. 02:59 PM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Sebastien)
8. 03:18 PM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 03:59 PM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Charlie England)
10. 04:36 PM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Eric Page)
11. 06:51 PM - Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure (Sebastien)
12. 11:01 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
13. 11:29 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: B&C voltage regulator low voltage warning |
(ADDENDUM)
At 11:18 PM 12/30/2019, you wrote:
>Deems reports that B&C is recommending a 470 ohm
>resistor=C2 between terminals 3 and 5, but the drawing
><http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg>http://aeroel
ectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg
>seems to me to show a resistance of more like
>940 ohms between the two terminals, ignoring the
>parallel resistance of the diode.=C2
>Will either arrangement work?
I think the image above shows TWO resistors, one
across the lamp, a second in series with the lamp.
This configuration is used when you supply your
own, rudimentary LED (a 4 volt device).
If your proposed LED annunciator already features
a built in series resistor (12v device) then
you use ONE resistor between 3 and 5 on regulator.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
At 10:56 PM 12/31/2019, you wrote:
>A Carson Air Ltd. Beech B300 (C-GILK/CA611) from Vancouver, BC
>(CYVR) to Campbell River, BC (CYBL) encountered electrical failure
>shortly after take-off. Aircraft requested to return to CYVR before
>losing contact with Vancouver (VR) Departure control. Aircraft then
>called the Vancouver/Boundary Bay, BC (CZBB) tower via phone,
>declared an emergency and landed on Runway 07 safely. No impact on operations.
It would be very interesting to read the
investigator's narrative on this incident.
If the battery was crapped . . . how long
since last cap-check? The King Airs run
nicely with no battery on line. I'm mystified
as to how a battery with dead/shorted cells
causes both generators to shut down. The
battery ammeter on the airplane would be
showing a HUGE charge current combined with
low bus voltage . . . telling crew that
the battery needs to be shut off.
There is a great deal more to this story
than what we're told. I'm betting that
there is an underlying history of poor
maintenance and/or crew understanding
that precipitated this event. None-the-less,
it will be cited as a total system failure
event causing poorly informed readers
to factor the story into their knowledge
base . . . bad mojo . . .
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
At 10:56 PM 12/31/2019, you wrote:
>A Carson Air Ltd. Beech B300 (C-GILK/CA611) from Vancouver, BC
>(CYVR) to Campbell River, BC (CYBL) encountered electrical failure
>shortly after take-off. Aircraft requested to return to CYVR before
>losing contact with Vancouver (VR) Departure control. Aircraft then
>called the Vancouver/Boundary Bay, BC (CZBB) tower via phone,
>declared an emergency and landed on Runway 07 safely. No impact on operations.
It would be very interesting to read the
investigator's narrative on this incident.
If the battery was crapped . . . how long
since last cap-check? The King Airs run
nicely with no battery on line. I'm mystified
as to how a battery with dead/shorted cells
causes both generators to shut down. The
battery ammeter on the airplane would be
showing a HUGE charge current combined with
low bus voltage . . . telling crew that
the battery needs to be shut off.
There is a great deal more to this story
than what we're told. I'm betting that
there is an underlying history of poor
maintenance and/or crew understanding
that precipitated this event. None-the-less,
it will be cited as a total system failure
event causing poorly informed readers
to factor the story into their knowledge
base . . . bad mojo . . .
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
At 10:56 PM 12/31/2019, you wrote:
>A Carson Air Ltd. Beech B300 (C-GILK/CA611) from Vancouver, BC
>(CYVR) to Campbell River, BC (CYBL) encountered electrical failure
>shortly after take-off. Aircraft requested to return to CYVR before
>losing contact with Vancouver (VR) Departure control. Aircraft then
>called the Vancouver/Boundary Bay, BC (CZBB) tower via phone,
>declared an emergency and landed on Runway 07 safely. No impact on operations.
It would be very interesting to read the
investigator's narrative on this incident.
If the battery was crapped . . . how long
since last cap-check? The King Airs run
nicely with no battery on line. I'm mystified
as to how a battery with dead/shorted cells
causes both generators to shut down. The
battery ammeter on the airplane would be
showing a HUGE charge current combined with
low bus voltage . . . telling crew that
the battery needs to be shut off.
The narrative says the removed battery was
low in output . . . but did anyone attempt
to charge and cap-check the battery? Skip
Koss frequently lamented the numbers of
batteries returned to Concorde where
inspection showed the battery to be
serviceable after receiving proper
attention.
There is a great deal more to this story
than what we're told. I'm betting that
there is an underlying history of poor
maintenance and/or crew understanding
that precipitated this event. None-the-less,
it will be cited as a total system failure
event causing poorly informed readers
to factor the story into their knowledge
base . . . bad mojo . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EFI current requirements |
Mark,
Just a suggestion about your battery comments....
I would think that using the smaller battery to "boost charge" the larger
battery might be better than trying to start an engine directly off the
smaller.
The larger boosted battery has the internal hardware and cabling to handle
huge loads like starting sequences. The smaller battery could bring the
larger back to life enough to get a good engine start.....
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 10:42 AM markfw <markwheelermd@icloud.com> wrote:
> markwheelermd@icloud.com>
>
> John,
>
> Thanks for the link to the thread of Ross's evaluation of the Shorei
> battery. This is a good example of non-truth in advertising.
>
> However, according to Ross the Shorei weighs 2.2 pounds and is good for
> approximately 6 ah. The EarthX ETX 900 battery is rated by them at 15.6 ah
> and weighs 4.9 pounds.
>
> Since these Lithium battery manufacturers apparently all use the same (or
> similar) Chinese Lithium cells I would say that EarthX is rating their
> batteries properly for continuous use rather than just starting.
>
> I will be using an EarthX 24 ah single battery in my day-VFR Carbon Cub. I
> will also have the EarthX 2 ah portable "starter" battery if I forget to
> turn off my master switch. It will be interesting to see if it will
> actually start my engine. It's counterintuitive that such a small battery
> could start an O-340, but it can supposedly do it.
>
> I am a Vans Air Force subscriber. I lurk there and learn a ton from the
> thousands of RV pilots and builders.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494093#494093
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EFI current requirements |
While connecting them in parallel might increase available current to
start, it won't charge the other battery, unless it's badly depleted.
I missed the earlier posts in this thread; 'the google' sometimes
decides Aeroelectric emails are spam (likely due to 'unusual' subject
lines).
The issue of AH ratings has been around as long as lithium battery tech.
Since the typical duty of a battery in a motor vehicle is purely
starting, the lithium guys have almost always used AH 'equivalent'
ratings when it comes to the battery's ability to *start* an engine.
It's the difference between *power* (ex: 400 HP Corvette) and *energy*
(50 gallon gas tank). A Corvette with a gallon of gas in its tank will
get to the end of a quarter mile first, and then it won't go any
farther. A Chevette with a 10 gallon tank will win the 200 mile race
every time over the Corvette with a 1 gallon tank.
Nothing really 'wrong' with the equivalent thing, as long as everyone is
on the same page and is using the battery purely as a starting battery.
But even in a car, the difference in capacity might mean the difference
between getting home after an alt failure, or being stranded on the side
of the road.
IIRC, EarthX did the same 'equivalent' ratings thing early in their
venture into the a/c market, until a bunch of us pointed out to them
that if the plane is electrically dependent, those numbers don't work.
Those of you planning on using EX batteries do need to be aware that the
internal battery management system really is another failure point, and
has failed in at least one case. If it decides that there are external
problems, or the battery is near end-of-charge (whether its assumption
is correct or not), it will disconnect the battery. Under the right
conditions, with some, older design alternators, the load dump could
cause an alternator failure. Not likely a risk with B&C alts, but many
older internally regulated alternators will die in a load dump situation.
In an 'alternator out' situation, the EX *will* disconnect at some
point, before the battery is fully depleted. Your call on use, but do
know the failure modes if you use them.
Charlie
On 1/1/2020 3:29 PM, skywagon185guy . wrote:
> Mark,
> Just a suggestion about your battery comments....
> I would think that using the smaller battery to "boost charge" the
> larger battery might be better than trying to start an engine directly
> off the smaller.
> The larger boosted battery has the internal hardware and cabling to
> handle huge loads like starting sequences. The smaller battery could
> bring the larger back to life enough to get a good engine start.....
>
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 10:42 AM markfw <markwheelermd@icloud.com
> <mailto:markwheelermd@icloud.com>> wrote:
>
> <markwheelermd@icloud.com <mailto:markwheelermd@icloud.com>>
>
> John,
>
> Thanks for the link to the thread of Ross's evaluation of the
> Shorei battery. This is a good example of non-truth in advertising.
>
> However, according to Ross the Shorei weighs 2.2 pounds and is
> good for approximately 6 ah. The EarthX ETX 900 battery is rated
> by them at 15.6 ah and weighs 4.9 pounds.
>
> Since these Lithium battery manufacturers apparently all use the
> same (or similar) Chinese Lithium cells I would say that EarthX is
> rating their batteries properly for continuous use rather than
> just starting.
>
> I will be using an EarthX 24 ah single battery in my day-VFR
> Carbon Cub. I will also have the EarthX 2 ah portable "starter"
> battery if I forget to turn off my master switch. It will be
> interesting to see if it will actually start my engine. It's
> counterintuitive that such a small battery could start an O-340,
> but it can supposedly do it.
>
> I am a Vans Air Force subscriber. I lurk there and learn a ton
> from the thousands of RV pilots and builders.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
Keep in mind the way these reports are generated. The incident is recorded
by atc and someone at Transport Canada decides to get follow up. They call
the director of maintenance and get a verbal report. They are expecting an
SDR so there is no investigation and no fact checking. There is no way to
tell fact from fiction.
Thinking about it, perhaps the crew never got the generators online or
selected them off right before takeoff when attempting to action a
different switch such as the igniters or anti ice vanes. Then when the gear
is selected up the hydraulic pump drains the battery. Unlikely but not so
unlikely as a faulty battery taking the gens offline.
On Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 16:57 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:56 PM 12/31/2019, you wrote:
>
> *A Carson Air Ltd. Beech B300 (C-GILK/CA611) from Vancouver, BC (CYVR) to
> Campbell River, BC (CYBL) encountered electrical failure shortly after
> take-off. Aircraft requested to return to CYVR before losing contact with
> Vancouver (VR) Departure control. Aircraft then called the
> Vancouver/Boundary Bay, BC (CZBB) tower via phone, declared an emergency
> and landed on Runway 07 safely. No impact on operations.*
>
>
> It would be very interesting to read the
> investigator's narrative on this incident.
> If the battery was crapped . . . how long
> since last cap-check? The King Airs run
> nicely with no battery on line. I'm mystified
> as to how a battery with dead/shorted cells
> causes both generators to shut down. The
> battery ammeter on the airplane would be
> showing a HUGE charge current combined with
> low bus voltage . . . telling crew that
> the battery needs to be shut off.
>
> The narrative says the removed battery was
> low in output . . . but did anyone attempt
> to charge and cap-check the battery? Skip
> Koss frequently lamented the numbers of
> batteries returned to Concorde where
> inspection showed the battery to be
> serviceable after receiving proper
> attention.
>
> There is a great deal more to this story
> than what we're told. I'm betting that
> there is an underlying history of poor
> maintenance and/or crew understanding
> that precipitated this event. None-the-less,
> it will be cited as a total system failure
> event causing poorly informed readers
> to factor the story into their knowledge
> base . . . bad mojo . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
At 04:56 PM 1/1/2020, you wrote:
>Keep in mind the way these reports are generated. The incident is
>recorded by atc and someone at Transport Canada decides to get
>follow up. They call the director of maintenance and get a verbal
>report. They are expecting an SDR so there is no investigation and
>no fact checking. There is no way to tell fact from fiction.
>
>Thinking about it, perhaps the crew never got the generators online
>or selected them off right before takeoff when attempting to action
>a different switch such as the igniters or anti ice vanes. Then when
>the gear is selected up the hydraulic pump drains the battery.
>Unlikely but not so unlikely as a faulty battery taking the gens offline.
. . . too bad. There are many anomalous events
that go unexplored yet reported in "never again"
articles . . . or not at all.
If the crew did mis-position switches and
ran their battery down, it stands to reason
that they would be reluctant to advertise
the error . . . assuming also that they
even know what brought it about.
So much useful information lost in the noise.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
On 1/1/2020 5:15 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 04:56 PM 1/1/2020, you wrote:
>> Keep in mind the way these reports are generated. The incident is
>> recorded by atc and someone at Transport Canada decides to get follow
>> up. They call the director of maintenance and get a verbal report.
>> They are expecting an SDR so there is no investigation and no fact
>> checking. There is no way to tell fact from fiction.
>>
>> Thinking about it, perhaps the crew never got the generators online
>> or selected them off right before takeoff when attempting to action a
>> different switch such as the igniters or anti ice vanes. Then when
>> the gear is selected up the hydraulic pump drains the battery.
>> Unlikely but not so unlikely as a faulty battery taking the gens offline.
>
> . . . too bad. There are many anomalous events
> that go unexplored yet reported in "never again"
> articles . . . or not at all.
>
> If the crew did mis-position switches and
> ran their battery down, it stands to reason
> that they would be reluctant to advertise
> the error . . . assuming also that they
> even know what brought it about.
>
> So much useful information lost in the noise.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
6.5 minutes for total flight duration; generator loss to total battery
failure and *then* fly to the next airport??
Charlie
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
On Wednesday, January 1, 2020, 03:32:26 PM PST, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wr
ote:
If the crew did mis-position switches and=C2-ran their battery down, it s
tands to reason=C2-that they would be reluctant to advertise the error .
. . assuming also that they=C2-even know what brought it about.
So much useful information lost in the noise.
-----
Bob brings up an interesting point.=C2- In this country, self-disclosure
is encouraged, and, I would hope, common, thanks to NASA's Aviation Safety
Reporting System and our airline industry's Aviation Safety Action Programs
.=C2- Does anyone know if the Canadian aviation system has anything simil
ar?
Eric
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting King Air Complete Electrical Failure |
I don't know what the weather was like. They had a familiar airport at
their 12 o'clock and decided to land there. They would have been closer to
their departure airport but maybe the weather precluded a quick VFR return.
On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 4:04 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/1/2020 5:15 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> At 04:56 PM 1/1/2020, you wrote:
>
> Keep in mind the way these reports are generated. The incident is recorded
> by atc and someone at Transport Canada decides to get follow up. They call
> the director of maintenance and get a verbal report. They are expecting an
> SDR so there is no investigation and no fact checking. There is no way to
> tell fact from fiction.
>
> Thinking about it, perhaps the crew never got the generators online or
> selected them off right before takeoff when attempting to action a
> different switch such as the igniters or anti ice vanes. Then when the gear
> is selected up the hydraulic pump drains the battery. Unlikely but not so
> unlikely as a faulty battery taking the gens offline.
>
>
> . . . too bad. There are many anomalous events
> that go unexplored yet reported in "never again"
> articles . . . or not at all.
>
> If the crew did mis-position switches and
> ran their battery down, it stands to reason
> that they would be reluctant to advertise
> the error . . . assuming also that they
> even know what brought it about.
>
> So much useful information lost in the noise.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> 6.5 minutes for total flight duration; generator loss to total battery
> failure and *then* fly to the next airport??
>
> Charlie
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.
The
complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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