Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:26 AM - Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 08:27 AM - Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: Z-12 current sensor options (Bill Boyd)
4. 10:42 AM - Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:51 AM - Re: Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:05 PM - Re: Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:11 PM - Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. of Failure? (markfw)
8. 12:21 PM - Re: Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 03:31 PM - Re: Z-12 current sensor options (Bill Boyd)
10. 03:47 PM - Re: Z-12 current sensor options (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 04:59 PM - Z11 revision needed? (Charlie England)
12. 06:32 PM - Re: Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. of Failure? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:05 PM - Re: Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. of Failure? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 07:08 PM - Re: Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. of Failure? (johnbright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Z-12 current sensor options |
At 07:52 PM 1/21/2020, you wrote:
>Gentlemen:=C2 planning a Z-12 -based dual
>alternator and single battery but with both
>alternator outputs paralleled into the 60A shunt
>and eliminating the Hall effect sensor for the
>standby alternator B-lead.=C2 The panel builder
>is politely suggesting I will be happier if I
>keep two independent current monitoring channels
>in place.=C2 Please review my missive to him and
>see if I am overlooking anything.=C2 Thanks!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
>Plan (1) - Wired using one each Shunt and Hall
>channels:=C2 60A alternator is regulated at
>14.4V.=C2 Adequate for all possible loads, it
>always outputs through the shunt and its current
>shows on the EFIS in that channel.=C2 20A standby
>alternator is regulated at 13.0V.=C2 The Hall
>effect sensor reads zero current on the EFIS
>basically forever - not a very informative data
>channel on the EFIS.=C2 The day the primary
>alternator breaks a belt, the shunt current
>drops to zero, the Hall sensor shows alternator
>output from the standby, and the bus voltage
>drops quickly to ~13V as the standby alternator takes the load.=C2 =C2
>
>Plan (2) - Both alternators feeding through the
>shunt in parallel, no Hall sensor:=C2 =C2 Shunt
>shows combined=C2 output=C2 current from both
>alternators, which is always 100% primary
>alternator, 0% from standby (because it's
>regulated to 13 volts into a bus that's already
>at 14.4V). If the primary alternator ever fails,
>then the shunt current reading is 100% from the
>standby alternator.=C2 The bus voltage drops to
>~13V which is the immediate clue the primary alternator is off-line.=C2 =C2
>
>This same behavior allows testing the
>alternators separately at any time the engine is
>running by switching off their field supplies
>one at a time and observing: current in scenario
>(1) or bus voltage in scenario (2).=C2 =C2 The
>shunt in (2) reads system loads regardless of
>which alternator is doing the work.=C2 The Hall
>in (1) reads zero except when a failure or test
>occurs.=C2 This just means the pilot has to look
>at a new EFIS channel to see current if the main fails.=C2 =C2
>
>In Plan (1), either the shunt or the Hall will
>always read zero.=C2 In plan (2), the shunt will
>always read current from one or the other
>alternator, but never both - and bus voltage is
>the indicator of which alternator is doing the work.=C2 =C2
>
>Not sure a Hall sensor that reads zero in normal
>operations and only tells me current that the
>shunt in (2) would show me just as well in a
>failure scenario is worth buying and wiring in.=C2 =C2
Current values observed in flight have very
little significance in terms of low risk
conduct of the mission.
An artfully conducted FMEA and load analysis
during the construction phase will confirm
(1) adequate energy sources for all phases
of flight and (2) no single failure of
a system component will put the mission
at risk.
In other words, CURRENT values that
present during any phase or failure condition
are already known. The critical operational
parameter is bus voltage wherein one is
notified that the alternator in service IS
or IS NOT supporting the bus at or above
battery discharge voltage.
Hence, active notification of LOW VOLTS
is the single system parameter that drives
decisions between plan-A, plan-B, plan-C,
etc.
If you anticipate two alternators, then
make one of them a standby machine that is
MANUALLY selected at such time the main
alternator is unable to keep the voltage
up. Plan-B is turn OFF main alternator,
turn ON standby alternator. Auto-switching
of the standby alternator adds minimal value
for risk reduction while significantly
adding cost.
BOTH B-leads can share a hall effect
current sensor as illustrated in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z12NP1.pdf
A single EFIS channel can be utilized
to monitor both alternators . . . but
understand that numbers displayed by this
feature are incidental to the fact that
system voltage IS or IS NOT adequate to
prevent discharging the battery. If the
voltage IS NOT adequate, then go to plan-C.
One sensor is adequate and useful
only during system diagnosis flight
or ground testing.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Z-12 current sensor options |
At 07:52 PM 1/21/2020, you wrote:
>Gentlemen:=C2 planning a Z-12 -based dual
>alternator and single battery but with both
>alternator outputs paralleled into the 60A shunt
>and eliminating the Hall effect sensor for the
>standby alternator B-lead.=C2 The panel builder
>is politely suggesting I will be happier if I
>keep two independent current monitoring channels
>in place.=C2 Please review my missive to him and
>see if I am overlooking anything.=C2 Thanks!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
>Plan (1) - Wired using one each Shunt and Hall
>channels:=C2 60A alternator is regulated at
>14.4V.=C2 Adequate for all possible loads, it
>always outputs through the shunt and its current
>shows on the EFIS in that channel.=C2 20A standby
>alternator is regulated at 13.0V.=C2 The Hall
>effect sensor reads zero current on the EFIS
>basically forever - not a very informative data
>channel on the EFIS.=C2 The day the primary
>alternator breaks a belt, the shunt current
>drops to zero, the Hall sensor shows alternator
>output from the standby, and the bus voltage
>drops quickly to ~13V as the standby alternator takes the load.=C2 =C2
>
>Plan (2) - Both alternators feeding through the
>shunt in parallel, no Hall sensor:=C2 =C2 Shunt
>shows combined=C2 output=C2 current from both
>alternators, which is always 100% primary
>alternator, 0% from standby (because it's
>regulated to 13 volts into a bus that's already
>at 14.4V). If the primary alternator ever fails,
>then the shunt current reading is 100% from the
>standby alternator.=C2 The bus voltage drops to
>~13V which is the immediate clue the primary alternator is off-line.=C2 =C2
>
>This same behavior allows testing the
>alternators separately at any time the engine is
>running by switching off their field supplies
>one at a time and observing: current in scenario
>(1) or bus voltage in scenario (2).=C2 =C2 The
>shunt in (2) reads system loads regardless of
>which alternator is doing the work.=C2 The Hall
>in (1) reads zero except when a failure or test
>occurs.=C2 This just means the pilot has to look
>at a new EFIS channel to see current if the main fails.=C2 =C2
>
>In Plan (1), either the shunt or the Hall will
>always read zero.=C2 In plan (2), the shunt will
>always read current from one or the other
>alternator, but never both - and bus voltage is
>the indicator of which alternator is doing the work.=C2 =C2
>
>Not sure a Hall sensor that reads zero in normal
>operations and only tells me current that the
>shunt in (2) would show me just as well in a
>failure scenario is worth buying and wiring in.=C2 =C2
Current values observed in flight have very
little significance in terms of low risk
conduct of the mission.
An artfully conducted FMEA and load analysis
during the construction phase will confirm
(1) adequate energy sources for all phases
of flight and (2) no single failure of
a system component will put the mission
at risk.
In other words, CURRENT values that
present during any phase or failure condition
are already known. The critical operational
parameter is bus voltage wherein one is
notified that the alternator in service IS
or IS NOT supporting the bus at or above
battery discharge voltage.
Hence, active notification of LOW VOLTS
is the single system parameter that drives
decisions between plan-A, plan-B, plan-C,
etc.
If you anticipate two alternators, then
make one of them a standby machine that is
MANUALLY selected at such time the main
alternator is unable to keep the voltage
up. Plan-B is turn OFF main alternator,
turn ON standby alternator. Auto-switching
of the standby alternator adds minimal value
for risk reduction while significantly
adding cost.
BOTH B-leads can share a hall effect
current sensor as illustrated in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z12NP1.pdf
A single EFIS channel can be utilized
to monitor both alternators . . . but
understand that numbers displayed by this
feature are incidental to the fact that
system voltage IS or IS NOT adequate to
prevent discharging the battery. If the
voltage IS NOT adequate, then go to plan-C.
One sensor is adequate and useful
only during system diagnosis flight
or ground testing.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z-12 current sensor options |
Thanks for the feedback, Bob.
I have purchased and installed both the LR3C and the SB1B (I think those
are the part #'s) external regulators from B&C. As you know, these come
pre-set for 14.4 and 13.0 V respectively and (so I thought) were intended
to be online simultaneously at these two voltages so that the switchover to
the standby alternator was automatic and required no pilot action.
Presumably the immediate drop in bus voltage from 14.4 to 13 would be
sensed and alerted in the EFIS software. Please advise if this is not the
correct implementation philosophy of this standby regulator in tandem with
the LR3C, and why it is viewed as more complex/costly to implement (except
the regulator vs the Ford unit.)
I assume that if sharing a Hall sensor is permissible it is also permitted
to share a 60A shunt.
Thanks again.
-Bill
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:33 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 07:52 PM 1/21/2020, you wrote:
>
> Gentlemen:=C3=82 planning a Z-12 -based dual alternator and single batte
ry but
> with both alternator outputs paralleled into the 60A shunt and eliminatin
g
> the Hall effect sensor for the standby alternator B-lead.=C3=82 The pane
l
> builder is politely suggesting I will be happier if I keep two independen
t
> current monitoring channels in place.=C3=82 Please review my missive to
him and
> see if I am overlooking anything.=C3=82 Thanks!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> Plan (1) - Wired using one each Shunt and Hall channels:=C3=82 60A alter
nator
> is regulated at 14.4V.=C3=82 Adequate for all possible loads, it always
outputs
> through the shunt and its current shows on the EFIS in that channel.=C3
=82 20A
> standby alternator is regulated at 13.0V.=C3=82 The Hall effect sensor r
eads
> zero current on the EFIS basically forever - not a very informative data
> channel on the EFIS.=C3=82 The day the primary alternator breaks a belt,
the
> shunt current drops to zero, the Hall sensor shows alternator output from
> the standby, and the bus voltage drops quickly to ~13V as the standby
> alternator takes the load.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
> Plan (2) - Both alternators feeding through the shunt in parallel, no Hal
l
> sensor:=C3=82 =C3=82 Shunt shows combined=C3=82 output=C3=82 current fro
m both alternators,
> which is always 100% primary alternator, 0% from standby (because it's
> regulated to 13 volts into a bus that's already at 14.4V). If the primary
> alternator ever fails, then the shunt current reading is 100% from the
> standby alternator.=C3=82 The bus voltage drops to ~13V which is the imm
ediate
> clue the primary alternator is off-line.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
> This same behavior allows testing the alternators separately at any time
> the engine is running by switching off their field supplies one at a time
> and observing: current in scenario (1) or bus voltage in scenario (2).=C3
=82 =C3=82
> The shunt in (2) reads system loads regardless of which alternator is doi
ng
> the work.=C3=82 The Hall in (1) reads zero except when a failure or test
> occurs.=C3=82 This just means the pilot has to look at a new EFIS channe
l to
> see current if the main fails.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
> In Plan (1), either the shunt or the Hall will always read zero.=C3=82 I
n plan
> (2), the shunt will always read current from one or the other alternator,
> but never both - and bus voltage is the indicator of which alternator is
> doing the work.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
> Not sure a Hall sensor that reads zero in normal operations and only tell
s
> me current that the shunt in (2) would show me just as well in a failure
> scenario is worth buying and wiring in.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
>
> Current values observed in flight have very
> little significance in terms of low risk
> conduct of the mission.
>
> An artfully conducted FMEA and load analysis
> during the construction phase will confirm
> (1) adequate energy sources for all phases
> of flight and (2) no single failure of
> a system component will put the mission
> at risk.
>
> In other words, CURRENT values that
> present during any phase or failure condition
> are already known. The critical operational
> parameter is bus voltage wherein one is
> notified that the alternator in service IS
> or IS NOT supporting the bus at or above
> battery discharge voltage.
>
> Hence, active notification of LOW VOLTS
> is the single system parameter that drives
> decisions between plan-A, plan-B, plan-C,
> etc.
>
> If you anticipate two alternators, then
> make one of them a standby machine that is
> MANUALLY selected at such time the main
> alternator is unable to keep the voltage
> up. Plan-B is turn OFF main alternator,
> turn ON standby alternator. Auto-switching
> of the standby alternator adds minimal value
> for risk reduction while significantly
> adding cost.
>
> BOTH B-leads can share a hall effect
> current sensor as illustrated in
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z12NP1.pdf
>
> A single EFIS channel can be utilized
> to monitor both alternators . . . but
> understand that numbers displayed by this
> feature are incidental to the fact that
> system voltage IS or IS NOT adequate to
> prevent discharging the battery. If the
> voltage IS NOT adequate, then go to plan-C.
>
> One sensor is adequate and useful
> only during system diagnosis flight
> or ground testing.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Z-12 current sensor options |
At 07:52 PM 1/21/2020, you wrote:
>Gentlemen:=C2 planning a Z-12 -based dual
>alternator and single battery but with both
>alternator outputs paralleled into the 60A shunt
>and eliminating the Hall effect sensor for the
>standby alternator B-lead.=C2 The panel builder
>is politely suggesting I will be happier if I
>keep two independent current monitoring channels
>in place.=C2 Please review my missive to him and
>see if I am overlooking anything.=C2 Thanks!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
>Plan (1) - Wired using one each Shunt and Hall
>channels:=C2 60A alternator is regulated at
>14.4V.=C2 Adequate for all possible loads, it
>always outputs through the shunt and its current
>shows on the EFIS in that channel.=C2 20A standby
>alternator is regulated at 13.0V.=C2 The Hall
>effect sensor reads zero current on the EFIS
>basically forever - not a very informative data
>channel on the EFIS.=C2 The day the primary
>alternator breaks a belt, the shunt current
>drops to zero, the Hall sensor shows alternator
>output from the standby, and the bus voltage
>drops quickly to ~13V as the standby alternator takes the load.=C2 =C2
>
>Plan (2) - Both alternators feeding through the
>shunt in parallel, no Hall sensor:=C2 =C2 Shunt
>shows combined=C2 output=C2 current from both
>alternators, which is always 100% primary
>alternator, 0% from standby (because it's
>regulated to 13 volts into a bus that's already
>at 14.4V). If the primary alternator ever fails,
>then the shunt current reading is 100% from the
>standby alternator.=C2 The bus voltage drops to
>~13V which is the immediate clue the primary alternator is off-line.=C2 =C2
>
>This same behavior allows testing the
>alternators separately at any time the engine is
>running by switching off their field supplies
>one at a time and observing: current in scenario
>(1) or bus voltage in scenario (2).=C2 =C2 The
>shunt in (2) reads system loads regardless of
>which alternator is doing the work.=C2 The Hall
>in (1) reads zero except when a failure or test
>occurs.=C2 This just means the pilot has to look
>at a new EFIS channel to see current if the main fails.=C2 =C2
>
>In Plan (1), either the shunt or the Hall will
>always read zero.=C2 In plan (2), the shunt will
>always read current from one or the other
>alternator, but never both - and bus voltage is
>the indicator of which alternator is doing the work.=C2 =C2
>
>Not sure a Hall sensor that reads zero in normal
>operations and only tells me current that the
>shunt in (2) would show me just as well in a
>failure scenario is worth buying and wiring in.=C2 =C2
Current values observed in flight have very
little significance in terms of low risk
conduct of the mission.
An artfully conducted FMEA and load analysis
during the construction phase will confirm
(1) adequate energy sources for all phases
of flight and (2) no single failure of
a system component will put the mission
at risk.
In other words, CURRENT values that
present during any phase or failure condition
are already known. The critical operational
parameter is bus voltage wherein one is
notified that the alternator in service IS
or IS NOT supporting the bus at or above
battery discharge voltage.
Hence, active notification of LOW VOLTS
is the single system parameter that drives
decisions between plan-A, plan-B, plan-C,
etc.
If you anticipate two alternators, then
make one of them a standby machine that is
MANUALLY selected at such time the main
alternator is unable to keep the voltage
up. Plan-B is turn OFF main alternator,
turn ON standby alternator. Auto-switching
of the standby alternator adds minimal value
for risk reduction while significantly
adding cost.
BOTH B-leads can share a hall effect
current sensor as illustrated in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z12NP1.pdf
A single EFIS channel can be utilized
to monitor both alternators . . . but
understand that numbers displayed by this
feature are incidental to the fact that
system voltage IS or IS NOT adequate to
prevent discharging the battery. If the
voltage IS NOT adequate, then go to plan-C.
One sensor is adequate and useful
only during system diagnosis flight
or ground testing.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z-12 current sensor options |
At 11:59 AM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>Thanks for the feedback, Bob.=C2 =C2
>
>I have purchased=C2 and installed both the LR3C
>and the SB1B (I think those are the part #'s)
>external regulators from B&C.=C2 As you know,
>these come pre-set for 14.4 and 13.0 V
>respectively and (so I thought) were intended to
>be online simultaneously at these two voltages
>so that the switchover to the standby alternator
>was automatic and required no pilot action.
Yup, this was a feature that targeted
the heavy-singles market and warmed
cockles in the hearts of most bureaucratic
worry-specialists. IMHO, entirely unnecessary
in the OBAM aviation market . . .
>=C2 Presumably the immediate drop in bus voltage
>from 14.4 to 13 would be sensed and alerted in the EFIS software.
The SB1B comes with an 'ALTERNATOR LOADED'
annunciator which offers timely notification
of main alternator failure as will any EFIS
alarm set to alert for a bus votlage below
the SB1 setpoint.
>=C2 Please advise if this is not the correct
>implementation philosophy of this standby
>regulator in tandem with the LR3C, and why it is
>viewed as more complex/costly to implement
>(except the regulator vs the Ford unit.)
Okay, if you're already down that road, then
my prior argument isn't useful. Smoke ahead . . .
it works as advertised.
>I assume=C2 that if sharing a Hall sensor is
>permissible it is also permitted to share a 60A shunt.
This is a 'real' shunt . . . not a hall-effect
sensor? Yes, you can tie both b-leads to the
anti-battery end of the shunt.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Z-12 current sensor options |
At 11:59 AM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>Thanks for the feedback, Bob.=C2 =C2
>
>I have purchased=C2 and installed both the LR3C
>and the SB1B (I think those are the part #'s)
>external regulators from B&C.=C2 As you know,
>these come pre-set for 14.4 and 13.0 V
>respectively and (so I thought) were intended to
>be online simultaneously at these two voltages
>so that the switchover to the standby alternator
>was automatic and required no pilot action.
Yup, this was a feature that targeted
the heavy-singles market and warmed
cockles in the hearts of most bureaucratic
worry-specialists. IMHO, entirely unnecessary
in the OBAM aviation market . . .
>=C2 Presumably the immediate drop in bus voltage
>from 14.4 to 13 would be sensed and alerted in the EFIS software.
The SB1B comes with an 'ALTERNATOR LOADED'
annunciator which offers timely notification
of main alternator failure as will any EFIS
alarm set to alert for a bus votlage below
the SB1 setpoint.
>=C2 Please advise if this is not the correct
>implementation philosophy of this standby
>regulator in tandem with the LR3C, and why it is
>viewed as more complex/costly to implement
>(except the regulator vs the Ford unit.)
Okay, if you're already down that road, then
my prior argument isn't useful. Smoke ahead . . .
it works as advertised.
>I assume=C2 that if sharing a Hall sensor is
>permissible it is also permitted to share a 60A shunt.
This is a 'real' shunt . . . not a hall-effect
sensor? Yes, you can tie both b-leads to the
anti-battery end of the shunt.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. of |
Failure?
I am building an electrically dependent airplane and I have used almost entirely
fused circuits as Bob has suggested.
So, I will be using two ATC/ATO fuse blocks tied together for my endurance bus.
THEORETICALLY each is a single point of failure.
It's difficult to imagine how an entire fuse block could fail if the nuts on the
terminals are properly applied. Should I worry about this? What are people's
opinions?
Thanks.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494394#494394
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-12 current sensor options |
At 11:59 AM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>Thanks for the feedback, Bob.=C2 =C2
>
>I have purchased=C2 and installed both the LR3C
>and the SB1B (I think those are the part #'s)
>external regulators from B&C.=C2 As you know,
>these come pre-set for 14.4 and 13.0 V
>respectively and (so I thought) were intended to
>be online simultaneously at these two voltages
>so that the switchover to the standby alternator
>was automatic and required no pilot action.
Yup, this was a feature that targeted
the heavy-singles market and warmed
cockles in the hearts of most bureaucratic
worry-specialists. IMHO, entirely unnecessary
in the OBAM aviation market . . .
>=C2 Presumably the immediate drop in bus voltage
>from 14.4 to 13 would be sensed and alerted in the EFIS software.
The SB1B comes with an 'ALTERNATOR LOADED'
annunciator which offers timely notification
of main alternator failure as will any EFIS
alarm set to alert for a bus votlage below
the SB1 setpoint.
>=C2 Please advise if this is not the correct
>implementation philosophy of this standby
>regulator in tandem with the LR3C, and why it is
>viewed as more complex/costly to implement
>(except the regulator vs the Ford unit.)
Okay, if you're already down that road, then
my prior argument isn't useful. Smoke ahead . . .
it works as advertised.
>I assume=C2 that if sharing a Hall sensor is
>permissible it is also permitted to share a 60A shunt.
This is a 'real' shunt . . . not a hall-effect
sensor? Yes, you can tie both b-leads to the
anti-battery end of the shunt.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Z-12 current sensor options |
Yes, that is correct, planning both B leads to the anti-battery end of the
physical brass-bar shunt Dynon shunt. I thought it would work that way but
nice to have your eyes on it first. Thank you. I'll have them leave the
Hall sensor out of the panel quote.
-Bill
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:10 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:59 AM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Bob.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
> I have purchased=C3=82 and installed both the LR3C and the SB1B (I think
those
> are the part #'s) external regulators from B&C.=C3=82 As you know, these
come
> pre-set for 14.4 and 13.0 V respectively and (so I thought) were intended
> to be online simultaneously at these two voltages so that the switchover
to
> the standby alternator was automatic and required no pilot action.
>
>
> Yup, this was a feature that targeted
> the heavy-singles market and warmed
> cockles in the hearts of most bureaucratic
> worry-specialists. IMHO, entirely unnecessary
> in the OBAM aviation market . . .
>
> =C3=82 Presumably the immediate drop in bus voltage from 14.4 to 13 woul
d be
> sensed and alerted in the EFIS software.
>
>
> The SB1B comes with an 'ALTERNATOR LOADED'
> annunciator which offers timely notification
> of main alternator failure as will any EFIS
> alarm set to alert for a bus votlage below
> the SB1 setpoint.
>
> =C3=82 Please advise if this is not the correct implementation philosoph
y of
> this standby regulator in tandem with the LR3C, and why it is viewed as
> more complex/costly to implement (except the regulator vs the Ford unit.)
>
>
> Okay, if you're already down that road, then
> my prior argument isn't useful. Smoke ahead . . .
> it works as advertised.
>
>
> I assume=C3=82 that if sharing a Hall sensor is permissible it is also
> permitted to share a 60A shunt.
>
>
> This is a 'real' shunt . . . not a hall-effect
> sensor? Yes, you can tie both b-leads to the
> anti-battery end of the shunt.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Z-12 current sensor options |
At 05:28 PM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>Yes, that is correct, planning both B leads to
>the anti-battery end of the physical brass-bar
>shunt Dynon shunt.=C2 I thought it would work
>that way but nice to have your eyes on it
>first.=C2 Thank you.=C2 I'll have them leave the
>Hall sensor out of the panel quote.=C2
Works good . . . lasts a long time . . . sounds like a PLAN . . .
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Z11 revision needed? |
Hi,
I'm in-process, updating my purchased RV6 electrical system. It was
loosely based on the AEC Z figures, but needs updating for several
reasons. This is a relatively simple, 1 battery/1 alternator system with
1 mag & 1 Lightspeed ignition, and Bendix style injection.
While consulting the Z figures to rearrange loads to various buses, I
noticed the boost pump feed on the Endurance bus is shown as 3A. No
doubt Z11 was created when 'simple' planes had fueled delivered by
carbs, but Bendix style injection has become quite common on RVs & other
Lyc powered homebuilts.
The issue I'm raising is that virtually all the commonly used 'boost'
pumps (actually *backup* pumps) in use with Bendix style fuel injection
these days have at their core, an automotive fuel injection pump which
draws a minimum of roughly 6A continuous, with no doubt, considerably
higher startup inrush current. With only a 7A fuse (and 16 Ga wire)
feeding the Endurance bus, This seems quite marginal. Even if we assume
minimal actual loads from the other active devices on this bus, the need
to activate the backup fuel pump could result in getting 'close to the
edge' of voltage drop ratings for 16 Ga wire, and if we are already
operating in Endurance mode, could easily take out the 7A fuse supplying
the endurance feed to the bus.
Should wire sizes and fusing be increased on this drawing, as has been
done on some of the other drawings where the backup pump load is shown
as 10A?
I should note that several other Z figures also show 7A protection and
16 Ga wire to the Endurance bus, but most of the others don't define any
loads on that bus. Assuming that a high pressure pump is needed in the
a/c, it would need to be on the Endurance bus and, it seems to me, the
bus would need a more robust supply.
Even with everything (including the alternator) on line, having to add
the backup fuel pump load to the other loads on that bus will push
voltage drop on the feed wire past the typical 10% limit.
Thanks,
Charlie
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. |
of Failure?
At 02:09 PM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>
>I am building an electrically dependent airplane and I have used
>almost entirely fused circuits as Bob has suggested.
>
>So, I will be using two ATC/ATO fuse blocks tied together for my
>endurance bus. THEORETICALLY each is a single point of failure.
>
>It's difficult to imagine how an entire fuse block could fail if the
>nuts on the terminals are properly applied. Should I worry about
>this? What are people's opinions?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Mark
TWO fuse blocks on the endurance bus? What
loads run from this bus?
Those fuse blocks are components of
a bus-structure . . . generally considered
10 to the minus 9th reliability, assuming
no errors of assembly.
After installation of the fuse block
feeder nuts, tighten snuggly and put
a drop of super-glue at the juncture
of the stud and nut. Alternatively
you could replace the existing nut
with an elastic stop-nut. I think that
stud is a 10-24 thread . . . most ACE
hardware stores stock these nuts for
about $0.60 each.
Beyond that simple precaution, there's
not much to worry about as long as you
pay attention to details of assembly
during installation.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. |
of Failure?
At 02:09 PM 1/22/2020, you wrote:
>
>I am building an electrically dependent airplane and I have used
>almost entirely fused circuits as Bob has suggested.
>
>So, I will be using two ATC/ATO fuse blocks tied together for my
>endurance bus. THEORETICALLY each is a single point of failure.
>
>It's difficult to imagine how an entire fuse block could fail if the
>nuts on the terminals are properly applied. Should I worry about
>this? What are people's opinions?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Mark
TWO fuse blocks on the endurance bus? What
loads run from this bus?
Those fuse blocks are components of
a bus-structure . . . generally considered
10 to the minus 9th reliability, assuming
no errors of assembly.
After installation of the fuse block
feeder nuts, tighten snuggly and put
a drop of super-glue at the juncture
of the stud and nut. Alternatively
you could replace the existing nut
with an elastic stop-nut. I think that
stud is a 10-24 thread . . . most ACE
hardware stores stock these nuts for
about $0.60 each.
Beyond that simple precaution, there's
not much to worry about as long as you
pay attention to details of assembly
during installation.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Is an ATC/ATO Fuse Block a Realistic Single Pt. |
of Failure?
Hi Mark,
In case this works for you... add a 2nd feed stud to the Bussman fuse block...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZKjbqnU3DfkUKNex2
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K">Dual
Batt Dual Alt RV-6A SDS dual EM-5-F</a>
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
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