Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:46 AM - Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Foghorn Inc)
2. 06:30 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (user9253)
3. 07:10 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (C&K)
4. 07:22 AM - Re: Molex Connector For SL-15 (William Hunter)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Foghorn Inc)
6. 07:58 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Foghorn Inc)
7. 08:10 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (user9253)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (johnbright)
9. 09:25 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (johnbright)
10. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Charlie England)
11. 11:44 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 12:48 PM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Foghorn Inc)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for
powering the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an
emergency aux feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
Thoughts?
Please go easy on me. =F0=9F=98=AC
Jeff Parker
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
The alternator "B" lead fuses should be physically located at the battery end of
the B lead, not at the alternator end.
ANL fuses will carry their rated current indefinitely. Replace the 80 amp fuse
with 40 amp.
Replace the Aux 40 ANL with a Littelfuse Maxi 30 amp.
For the cost of sales tax on the VP-X, a fuse block and fuses could be purchased.
And fuses can be replaced by anywhere by the pilot.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494717#494717
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Jeff
Fundamentally I ask myself what your goal might be? What are you trying
to protect against?
With an immediate low voltage warning you are not going to continue
flying blissfully unaware after an alternator has failed until the
battery dies like so many have done in the past.
There would be no hurry whatsoever to close the crossfeed, or manually
switch power sources after one z14 alternator quit, or do nothing and
just land on the battery.
Why put relays in the feed path to the engine instead of a switch. Or
two switches ganged together to feed from either of two sources. If you
do use relays what is the power source to activate them.
In my case with independent ignitions I use a switch to each coil and
either coil will run the engine. No diodes because the coils are
separate from each other. My ecu's and coil drivers on the ground side
of the coils operate regardless of whether their respective coils have
+12 volts on them.
Ken
On 09/02/2020 7:44 AM, Foghorn Inc wrote:
> Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for
> powering the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an
> emergency aux feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Please go easy on me.
>
> Jeff Parker
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Molex Connector For SL-15 |
Does anyone know what Molex female connector is used in the SL15 tray?
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 16:54 <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
>
> Can someone please help me do the following:
>
>
> -Identify the proper Molex crimp on connector to go into the tray of my
> SL-15?
>
>
> -Give advice on how to easily remove the Molex connectors from the SL-15
> trayThe tray is kinda deep and it would be difficult to reach in
to the
> tray cavity with the removal tool and it kinda looks like the connector
> body can be removed from the tray
>
>
> BACK STORY:
>
>
> Some of you might remember that I was trying to find out why the
> entertainment input of my SL-15 was not working.
>
>
> Well it seems that the avionics shop that I used to build the wire harnes
s
> for my avionics system did not wire it upand now I have to remov
e the
> avionics tray and install the wiresGrrrrr.
>
>
> It is not exactly their faultthe SL-15 has a pretty stupid syste
m where
> it has two =9Centertainment=9D inputswith ENT 1 bein
g only available for the
> pilot stations and ENT 2 being only available only for the passenger
> stationsIf everybody wants to listen to the same music the SL-15
> installation manual has a blurb that states:
>
>
> =9CEntertainment inputs #1 and #2 can be paralleled so a single
> entertainment source can
>
> serve both the passengers and the crew. It is suggested however, that a
> switch (DPDT) is
>
> installed between the single entertainment device and entertainment input
> #1. This will
>
> allow the pilot and copilot to decide if they hear entertainment while in
> the Crew mode=9D
>
>
> The avionics shop wired the input jack to ENT 2 and wired the Dynon
> annunciations to ENT 1 and with this setup when I plugged in the music to
> the input jack the music would only play to the passengers and the two
> pilots would only be able to listen to the Dynon annunciationsho
w
> entertaining
>
>
> So now I have to remove some Molex connectors and insert some wires and
> connectors so I can listen to my music
>
>
> THANKS!!!
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Hey Joe,
Thanks for the comments. The main Alt is 60a and the Aux Alt is 30+. I was under
the impression that the ANL current limiter should be slightly larger than the
ALT load. Hence the 80a and 40a ANL. I purchase most stuff from B&C and they
dont sell a 70a ANL fuse to the best of my knowledge but Ill see what I can
find.
The VP-X is purchased and here to stay.
Thanks,
Jeff Parker
> On 9Feb, 2020, at 09:28, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The alternator "B" lead fuses should be physically located at the battery end
of the B lead, not at the alternator end.
> ANL fuses will carry their rated current indefinitely. Replace the 80 amp fuse
with 40 amp.
> Replace the Aux 40 ANL with a Littelfuse Maxi 30 amp.
> For the cost of sales tax on the VP-X, a fuse block and fuses could be purchased.
> And fuses can be replaced by anywhere by the pilot.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494717#494717
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
> On 9Feb, 2020, at 10:08, C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<mailto:yellowduckduo@gmail.com>>
>
> Jeff
> Fundamentally I ask myself what your goal might be? Continued IFR
flight, inhospitable terrain over flight or I might fly it to Europe
=F0=9F=98=8F. What are you trying to protect against? Self induced
engine failure.
>
> With an immediate low voltage warning you are not going to continue
flying blissfully unaware after an alternator has failed until the
battery dies like so many have done in the past.
> There would be no hurry whatsoever to close the crossfeed, or manually
switch power sources after one z14 alternator quit, or do nothing and
just land on the battery. I agree and believe this diagram addresses
continued flight with minimal pilot input.
>
> Why put relays in the feed path to the engine instead of a switch. Or
two switches ganged together to feed from either of two sources. If you
do use relays what is the power source to activate them. I=99m not
tied to the relays. My thought process was to run a smaller gauge wire
to the switch in the cockpit to activate the relays for the coils. I
=99m really looking for what is simple and works.
>
> In my case with independent ignitions I use a switch to each coil and
either coil will run the engine. No diodes because the coils are
separate from each other. My ecu's and coil drivers on the ground side
of the coils operate regardless of whether their respective coils have
+12 volts on them.
> Ken
>
> On 09/02/2020 7:44 AM, Foghorn Inc wrote:
>> Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for
powering the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an
emergency aux feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Please go easy on me. =F0=9F=98=AC
>>
>> Jeff Parker
>>
>>
>>
>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
The main alternator has two labels. 40 & 60. I only noticed the 40 amp label earlier.
I think that "one size larger" rule of thumb applies to circuit breakers,
not ANL fuses. Maybe Bob will chime in.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494722#494722
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Re ANL current limiters.
Ref: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html
"There are some noteworthy characteristics of the ANL series devices. Note that
they will carry nearly 2X their rated current indefinitely. This makes them behave
more like the fusible links we've described elsewhere on this website. So,
if you wish to size an ANL current limiter more in line with the output rating
of your alternator, you could do so without regard to the "headroom"..."
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K">Dual
Batt Dual Alt RV-6A SDS dual EM-5-F</a>
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494723#494723
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Hi Jeff... My 2 cents.
All... bear in mind:
Jeff and I are dual SDS EM-5-F four cylinder.
Jeff is RV-8 with one battery forward of firewall and one battery aft of baggage
bulkhead and I am RV-6A with two batteries forward of firewall.
Six cylinder is different in some ways; the injector relays and ignition coils
draw more current; I believe the fuel pumps are the same Walbro GSL393 units.
Placing the engine bus forward of the firewall agrees with FAR 23.1361.
For the engine bus feed 12 awg is conservative. I did current draw calculations,
summarized at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14Jho6rEreX6upko3hPlpTRoGAmE3MCj18zQzqbGkyMM/edit#gid=1724151884
I too made the engine bus always hot to eliminate a couple relays and switches
but in your case of one battery rear of the baggage bulkhead I would use a relay
at the battery. I verify the diodes are not open or shorted by using the Dynon
D6 voltmeter on the engine bus. My engine operation checklist is at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17gL5VBNBINsUWGvcAn5oU3dBuvL6c_QKnQUzpi2PggY/edit#gid=1116877898
FAR 23.1361 would have the fuel pumps on relays forward of the firewall.
The ignition coil relays need a jumper from relay coil to power from engine bus.
I don't know how to prove the injector relays are not stuck in the nominal/off/ECU
1 position if the ECUs are not switched. I used progressive ECU/Ignition Coil
switches so the ECU can boot before powering the coil. Also on the engine
operation checklist linked above.
Both injector relays can be on the same fuse, they draw 0.055 A each for a total
of 0.110 A. The install manual incorrectly says 0.42 A each; currently at V30
rev 3 01/08/2020.
Wire from Blue Sea pass thru to starter contactor can be 4 awg.
Wire to aux alternator can be 8 awg or even 10 awg.
The ANL for main alternator would be close to the Blue Sea pass thru.
Consider using a relay for aux bus feed so there will not be a hot switch on the
IP in any case and so all power to the cabin can be cut in a post crash scenario.
I'm not sure what's the best name for the Aux Eng Bus Feed switch given
it comes from the Main Batt.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K">Dual
Batt Dual Alt RV-6A SDS dual EM-5-F</a>
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494725#494725
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 10:16 AM user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The main alternator has two labels. 40 & 60. I only noticed the 40 amp
> label earlier. I think that "one size larger" rule of thumb applies to
> circuit breakers, not ANL fuses. Maybe Bob will chime in.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
Specs are published by mfgrs. Bussman *non-time-delay* specs:
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/product-datasheets-a/Bus_Ele_DS_2024_ANL.pdf
According to this doc, a 50A ANL will handle 100A for virtually unlimited
duration. But for a catastrophic fault, there's a very small difference (as
a percentage of current or time to melt) between a 50A & an 80A.
Ex: @120A, the 50A melts in 0.5 seconds while the 80A melts at 0.7 seconds.
Charlie
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
At 06:44 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
>Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for
>powering the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with
>an emergency aux feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
It doesn't really matter much since all busses
are very robust. Put all engine loads on one
bus . . . either main or aux . . . you'll be
fine. No more busses needed
Bob . . .
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
At 09:31 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
>
>Hey Joe,
>
>Thanks for the comments. The main Alt is 60a and
>the Aux Alt is 30+. I was under the impression
>that the ANL current limiter should be slightly
>larger than the ALT load. Hence the 80a and 40a
>ANL. I purchase most stuff from B&C and they
>don=99t sell a 70a ANL fuse to the best of my
>knowledge but I=99ll see what I can find.
>
>The VP-X is purchased and here to stay.
Unlike CIRCUIT BREAKERS . . .
ANL (vintage) or MIDI/MANL (recommended) devices
are CURRENT LIMITERS. Check out the specs
https://tinyurl.com/by5qnop
a CURRENT LIMITER is intended to clear
hard faults (read: more amps than you'd
like to have flowing anywhere on the
airplane!).
A current limiter will typically
carry it's rated current for a very
long time.
Emacs!
150% of rating is still longer than you
want a branch circuit protection to trip.
But hit say a MIDI50 with 500A (1000%) fault
and it's going to open in about 100 milliseconds.
Short story, when purchasing current limiters,
the size equal to your expected continuous
current is fine . . .
CIRCUIT BREAKERS are another story . . . and
not recommended for alternator b-lead protection
anyhow. Beech quit putting them into the b-leads
about 3 or 4 decades ago . . .
Bob . . .
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Thanks Bob! I=99ll go with it and get some MIDI/MANL current
limiters at the ALTs rated power.
Jeff Parker
> On 9Feb, 2020, at 14:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:44 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
>> Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for
powering the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an
emergency aux feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
>
> It doesn't really matter much since all busses
> are very robust. Put all engine loads on one
> bus . . . either main or aux . . . you'll be
> fine. No more busses needed
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|