---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/16/20: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:33 AM - A basic butt splice (bcone1381) 2. 12:06 PM - Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils (nuckollsr) 3. 01:47 PM - Re: A basic butt splice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:45 PM - Last design task for Raytheon (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:06 PM - Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils (cofford) 6. 07:09 PM - Re: A basic butt splice (bcone1381) 7. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: A basic butt splice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:33 PM - Re: Last design task for Raytheon (John B) 9. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:51 PM - Re: Last design task for Raytheon (Earl Schroeder) 11. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 08:24 PM - Re: Last design task for Raytheon (Art Zemon) 13. 08:28 PM - Re: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: A basic butt splice From: "bcone1381" Im planning my first basic electrical application on my experimental kit....the headset jacks. One 20awg wire will run to the two jacks then split Please confirm ...in order to split a 20wag wire into two separate 20awg wires using PODG crimp connectors a single blue 14-16awg butt splice would receive the two 20awg wires on one end and a single 20awg on the other crimped end maybe with a second very short 20awg wire added because the space in the blue butt connector is a size too large. -------- Brooks Cone Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494838#494838 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:26 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils From: "nuckollsr" A manufacturer of ANY accessory should be cautious about venturing outside their product into issues of aircraft architecture and systems integration. As we've studied over the years, off-hand recommendations or even citations of, "This is what I fly in my airplane" are seldom examples of the lowest parts count, lowest cost of ownership and minimized risk across the full spectrum of potential installations. Further, when offered by individuals of limited experience, the potential for designed in risk goes up. For decades my teachers said, "draw a box around the gizmo for which you are writing a specification. Describe all inputs, outputs and expected performance for what goes on INSIDE your box . . . then quit. In the case before us, the 'box' is your EFIS system. It's a perfectly valid request that one or more inputs require, "Failure tolerant source of power from x.x to xx.x volts DC at x.x amps". The selection of architecture and operating philosophy are a separate specification embracing design goals that are seldom known by the appliance manufacturer. Your design goal is to minimize risk to the WHOLE system which starts with you, includes a complex machine with lots of potential for failure all topped off the the environment through which you are flying. No matter how many multi-feed busses, standby batteries, extra alternators you design into your project, demonstrated realities tell us that the greatest single cause for engine failure is running out of gas . . . and the biggest risk for hitting the mountain does not arise from a blown fuse on the gps. Engine not withstanding, there are lots of electro- whizzies that we would like to keep lit up. Keeping the engine running in case everything else has gone dark only improves the probability that you'll hit the rocks under power. I suggest that adding an 'engine bus' is redundant and unnecessary for Z12 with one battery (well maintained . . . of course) and two engine driven power sources . Keep in mind that a 'battery bus' is an always hot distribution device located adjacent to the battery and fitted with protective devices consistent with crash worthiness design goals. A bus located elsewhere powered through any form of switch gear and 'protected' with distribution- rated limiters or fusible links is not a battery bus . . . it's just another bus with its own purpose/nomenclature. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494839#494839 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:42 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: A basic butt splice At 01:31 PM 2/16/2020, you wrote: > >I=99m planning my first basic electrical >application on my experimental kit....the >headset jacks. One 20awg wire will run to the two jacks then split > >Please confirm ...in order to split a 20wag wire >into two separate 20awg wires using PODG crimp >connectors a single blue 14-16awg butt splice >would receive the two 20awg wires on one end and >a single 20awg on the other crimped end maybe >with a second very short 20awg wire added >because the space in the blue butt connector is a size too large. Two 20AWG Tefzel wires will fit nicely into a RED PIDG splice . . . Emacs! . . . with your single 20AWG going into the other end. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Last design task for Raytheon Setting up new computer. While cleaning off some old files on an archive-drive, I stumbled across a video of first-flight on the last vehicle design program I worked for RAC. This missile is intended to fly very low over the water . . . perhaps 30' off the surface . . . at very high speeds. Something on the order of M4. Powered by air-breathing ram-jets, it has to be flying at better than M2.0 before the engines will light off. If memory serves, it achieves engine start velocity in just a few seconds with acceleration rates of over 20G. I designed an all solid-state, power distribution controller that eliminated relays used on our legacy products. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/D-Sub_Power_Dist_2.jpg First flight video can be viewed here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Video/GQM-163_First-Flight.mp4 Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:12 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils From: "cofford" Hi Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. I plan on mounting my battery on the firewall, and the engine fuse block on the cabin side, near the battery and pass-through. The relay would be mounted to the battery box. I was not planning on adding any circuit protection devices to the engine bus relay feed. Here's the whole architecture as of today: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1asF6lxJcRF4q06fiD3ytd3ktgnxzHuLJ/view?usp=sharing Thanks, Casey Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494845#494845 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:06 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A basic butt splice From: "bcone1381" Thanks Bob!! I understand...Two 20 AWG wires fit into a red crimp connector. Is there any standardized chart or method we might call a BEST PRACTICE to calculate how many wires or certain sized in each size PIDG connector? -------- Brooks Cone Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494846#494846 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: A basic butt splice At 09:06 PM 2/16/2020, you wrote: > >Thanks Bob!! > >I understand...Two 20 AWG wires fit into a red crimp connector. > >Is there any standardized chart or method we might call a BEST >PRACTICE to calculate how many wires or certain sized in each size >PIDG connector? Not that I'm aware of. The idea is to fill the barrel with enough copper that you get a gas-tight joint when the tool is applied. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html you probably can't put too much wire into the terminal. The biggest risk is too little wire such that the crimp doesn't completely close down on all the stranding. When in doubt about too little, strip 2x for length of exposed strands, double them back before inserting. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:57 PM PST US From: John B Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Last design task for Raytheon Bob- This missile is fantastic! Deployed or not, your technology moved our great nation forward! Thank you for your contribution! John B On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 8:51 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > Setting up new computer. While cleaning off some old > files on an archive-drive, I stumbled across a video > of first-flight on the last vehicle design program > I worked for RAC. > > This missile is intended to fly very low over the > water . . . perhaps 30' off the surface . . . at > very high speeds. Something on the order of M4. > Powered by air-breathing ram-jets, it has to be flying > at better than M2.0 before the engines will light off. > If memory serves, it achieves engine start velocity in just > a few seconds with acceleration rates of over 20G. > > I designed an all solid-state, power distribution controller > that eliminated relays used on our legacy products. > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/D-Sub_Power_Dist_2.jpg > > First flight video can be viewed here: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Video/GQM-163_First-Flight.mp4 > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:40 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils At 09:04 PM 2/16/2020, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > >Thanks for your thoughts. I plan on mounting my battery on the >firewall, and the engine fuse block on the cabin side, near the >battery and pass-through. The relay would be mounted to the battery >box. I was not planning on adding any circuit protection devices to >the engine bus relay feed. Why the relay? Why not run all those engine feeds off the main bus? That way, if the engine is running, all the other stuff is running too . . . and vice versa. Then your task is simpler. Keep the main bus hot . . . a goal that has been successfully achieved on thousands of airplanes for a long time. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:03 PM PST US From: Earl Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Last design task for Raytheon > On Feb 16, 2020, at 8:51 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > Setting up new computer. While cleaning off some old > files on an archive-drive, I stumbled across a video > of first-flight on the last vehicle design program > I worked for RAC. > Neat !! Those were the days.. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:07 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils At 09:04 PM 2/16/2020, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > >Thanks for your thoughts. I plan on mounting my battery on the >firewall, and the engine fuse block on the cabin side, near the >battery and pass-through. The relay would be mounted to the battery >box. I was not planning on adding any circuit protection devices to >the engine bus relay feed. Why the relay? Why not run all those engine feeds off the main bus? That way, if the engine is running, all the other stuff is running too . . . and vice versa. Then your task is simpler. Keep the main bus hot . . . a goal that has been successfully achieved on thousands of airplanes for a long time. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:27 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Last design task for Raytheon That's awesome, Bob. Real engineering! -- Art Z. On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 9:02 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > Setting up new computer. While cleaning off some old > files on an archive-drive, I stumbled across a video > of first-flight on the last vehicle design program > I worked for RAC. > > This missile is intended to fly very low over the > water . . . perhaps 30' off the surface . . . at > very high speeds. Something on the order of M4. > Powered by air-breathing ram-jets, it has to be flying > at better than M2.0 before the engines will light off. > If memory serves, it achieves engine start velocity in just > a few seconds with acceleration rates of over 20G. > > I designed an all solid-state, power distribution controller > that eliminated relays used on our legacy products. > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/D-Sub_Power_Dist_2.jpg > > First flight video can be viewed here: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Video/GQM-163_First-Flight.mp4 > > > Bob . . . > > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Sooner meet a bereaved she-bear than a fool with his nonsense. *Proverbs 17:12 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Always hot power for fuel injectors and ignition coils From: Charlie England On 2/16/2020 9:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 09:04 PM 2/16/2020, you wrote: >> >> Hi Bob, >> >> Thanks for your thoughts. I plan on mounting my battery on the >> firewall, and the engine fuse block on the cabin side, near the >> battery and pass-through. The relay would be mounted to the battery >> box. I was not planning on adding any circuit protection devices to >> the engine bus relay feed. > > Why the relay? Why not run all those engine > feeds off the main bus? That way, if the engine > is running, all the other stuff is running too . . . > and vice versa. > > Then your task is simpler. Keep the main bus > hot . . . a goal that has been successfully > achieved on thousands of airplanes for > a long time. > > > Bob . . . > I'll take a swat at it. 'Ingrained habits/training'. From a purely functional standpoint, sure, but... We've spent our whole flying careers expecting the engine control (mag switches) to be independent from airframe electrical control. I might be a minority of one, but it seems to me that even if I'm intimately familiar with my plane's unusual switchology characteristics, someone else likely won't be. And in the (admittedly rare) case of the legendary 'smoke in the cockpit' scenario, we've all been trained to make the electrical system 'cold' first, then try to work our way back to restoring power, if we can. By having the much more elaborate switchology of an electronically controlled engine on an independent bus, we can hopefully avoid having 'muscle memory' cause a problem, instead of solving one. The guys who've been flying alternative engines for years are much more reluctant to allow someone else to fly their planes, and a big driving factor is that engine operation is so different in many of the installations. When we add electronic fuel injection to a traditional engine, it really has become an 'alternative engine' as far as operational issues are concerned. 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