Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:18 AM - New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 11:18 AM - New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 11:59 AM - New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 12:44 PM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (johnbright)
5. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 05:18 PM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (johnbright)
7. 07:01 PM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (user9253)
8. 07:33 PM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (johnbright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New role for the E-Bus? |
>
>Bob, I can count on one hand the number of times I've disagreed with
>you, but this is wrong and dangerous. I have dual coils on separate
>switches, so that I can test each one during a run-up. One uses
>mechanical points, and the other electronic points. They are both
>on for take-off and landing, but only one for cruise.
You are quite correct, common sense calls for
independent operability of redundant
SYSTEMS . . . I'm wrestling with a new
computer build. Working to get all my
apps to play nice in Win10.
Sorry 'bout that. Had my head down the wrong
rabbit hole when I penned that. My visual
image during the response was that of
assessing the failure of one coil in
a two coil (waste spark) system. Thanks
for the heads-up!
The usefulness of an endurance bus went
away with Z-12. Went you have two, robust
engine driven power sources the likelihood
of finding it necessary to complete a mission
battery-only becomes one of those 10 to the
minus bazillion risks.
However, if one wishes to honor both (1) legacy
crash safety goal of hitting the dirt with electrics
max cold and (2) independent feeds for the engine,
perhaps the E-Bus finds a new role in Z12 thusly:
Emacs!
I think this comes close to some alternatives
offered by others in recent days . . .
The reduced reliability of the added relay and wiring
is not a big concern because it's the 'backup'
system. Further, it's easily checked for operability
in pre-flight. Anytime the MAIN bus is up, the ENGINE
bus is up. Finally, the main bus can be taken down
without killing the engine. The normal feed path
to the ENGINE bus has low parts count, no moving
parts and high reliability factor.
Let's thrash this around with a goal of offering
a failure-tolerant energy source to a electrically
dependent engine of any variety.
I noticed that one SDS drawing I've looked at
recently had 5A or smaller fuses for ALL feeders
to their system. Really cool . . .
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | New role for the E-Bus? |
>
>Bob, I can count on one hand the number of times I've disagreed with
>you, but this is wrong and dangerous. I have dual coils on separate
>switches, so that I can test each one during a run-up. One uses
>mechanical points, and the other electronic points. They are both
>on for take-off and landing, but only one for cruise.
You are quite correct, common sense calls for
independent operability of redundant
SYSTEMS . . . I'm wrestling with a new
computer build. Working to get all my
apps to play nice in Win10.
Sorry 'bout that. Had my head down the wrong
rabbit hole when I penned that. My visual
image during the response was that of
assessing the failure of one coil in
a two coil (waste spark) system. Thanks
for the heads-up!
The usefulness of an endurance bus went
away with Z-12. Went you have two, robust
engine driven power sources the likelihood
of finding it necessary to complete a mission
battery-only becomes one of those 10 to the
minus bazillion risks.
However, if one wishes to honor both (1) legacy
crash safety goal of hitting the dirt with electrics
max cold and (2) independent feeds for the engine,
perhaps the E-Bus finds a new role in Z12 thusly:
Emacs!
I think this comes close to some alternatives
offered by others in recent days . . .
The reduced reliability of the added relay and wiring
is not a big concern because it's the 'backup'
system. Further, it's easily checked for operability
in pre-flight. Anytime the MAIN bus is up, the ENGINE
bus is up. Finally, the main bus can be taken down
without killing the engine. The normal feed path
to the ENGINE bus has low parts count, no moving
parts and high reliability factor.
Let's thrash this around with a goal of offering
a failure-tolerant energy source to a electrically
dependent engine of any variety.
I noticed that one SDS drawing I've looked at
recently had 5A or smaller fuses for ALL feeders
to their system. Really cool . . .
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | New role for the E-Bus? |
Emacs!
P.S.
Speaking of pre-flight, this arrangement
would call for going to alternate feed
and opening the master switch after engine
start . . . of course this would reboot
electro-whizzies on the main bus.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Proposed SDS EFI+I engine bus preflight:
Close engine bus alternate feed relay from ship's battery.
Energize both fuel pumps.
Read battery voltage on SDS programmer.
Engine bus alternate feed has now been tested at 10 to 11 amps and if main bus
did not power on the diode is not shorted.
Close battery contactor.
Open engine bus alternate feed.
If engine bus is still powered, diode is not open.
Close engine bus alternate feed relay.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Dual batt dual alt SDS dual EM-5-F but considering a single batt design.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494907#494907
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
At 02:41 PM 2/20/2020, you wrote:
><john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>
>Proposed SDS EFI+I engine bus preflight:
>
>Close engine bus alternate feed relay from ship's battery.
>Energize both fuel pumps.
>Read battery voltage on SDS programmer.
>Engine bus alternate feed has now been tested at 10 to 11 amps and
>if main bus did not power on the diode is not shorted.
>Close battery contactor.
>Open engine bus alternate feed.
>If engine bus is still powered, diode is not open.
>Close engine bus alternate feed relay.
Sounds like a plan . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>
>
> I noticed that one SDS drawing I've looked at
> recently had 5A or smaller fuses for ALL feeders
> to their system. Really cool . . .
>
> Bob . . .
Hi Bob,
I would love to see that drawing because SDS recommends 10 A fuses for coilpacks
and 15 A fuses for fuel pumps. The Walbro data sheet for the fuel pump shows
5.25 A per pump at 45 psi which is the SDS recommended pressure. SDS says the
four cylinder coilpacks draw "just over 1 amp each in cruise at 2,400 rpm".
In order to meet FAR 23.1361 I add relays for the pumps and coils at the engine
bus.
How about connecting the aux alternator directly to the battery?
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Dual batt dual alt SDS dual EM-5-F but considering a single batt design.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494913#494913
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/erase_single_battery_for_ael_146.jpg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
John Bright,
I suggest that the engine bus relay coil be connected to the relay common terminal
instead of the relay normally open terminal.
In other words, the relay coil should be powered by the battery, not by the main
power bus.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494915#494915
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
user9253 wrote:
> John Bright,
> I suggest that the engine bus relay coil be connected to the relay common terminal
instead of the relay normally open terminal.
> In other words, the relay coil should be powered by the battery, not by the main
power bus.
Thanks Joe!... silly error on my part I'll fix it tomorrow.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Dual batt dual alt SDS dual EM-5-F but considering a single batt design.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494917#494917
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